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View Full Version : When the 3 point rule doesnt help.......



GobGetrvideo
September 30th, 2009, 12:18 PM
I've personally wrote letters, visited with game and fish officials, and pushed for shorter gun seasons and better buck management with everyone that will listen. I love the 3 point rule but with everything there is a down side to it. I know this deer from encounters is at least 4.5 years old but probably 5.5 with body size in comparison to other deer on my farm in central Arkansas. Last year he had about 1.5" 3 on his left beam but it is gone this year. I had this deer inside 20 steps on probably 6-8 occasions last year but video'ed him and took pics of him with my cell phone instead of blowing his lungs out. This deer needs to die but is not legal. What would yall do? I added the going away pic so you can really see his belly!

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goatranch
September 30th, 2009, 12:29 PM
In my area the 3 point rule has helped a lot. Extreme NW AR. But it needs to continue. Probably need to add another doe to the bag limit as well.

All summer long and for the last 3 years I have seen tons of does and young fawns. Just this morning I saw what appeared to be a 4 or 5 point buck. Where I hunt has really improved over the last 10 years. When I first moved out here all you saw were spikes. Now we are killing nice 8 and 9 points with very decent bodies. Seen two real monsters in the last 5 years that I don't think were here before. One I saw was at least 18-20 inches wide and huge mature body.

GobGetrvideo
September 30th, 2009, 02:28 PM
This will go here since i brought up the 3 point rule and I am needing to vent a bit! I just read on the main forum on the thread "why do ppl shoot small bucks" something that just flew over me. An Arkansas guy made a post to the guy that started the thread "come to Arkansas and you wont say that" and that attitude really just pisses me off to no end. Ok I am not one of the guys that is going to bash you (not to your face) for shooting a 90" 2.5 year old eight point. I will make a comment hoping you will not do it again but I understand that everyone hasnt made the progressive steps to become a mature deer hunter but I will say as bow hunters we lead the pack in management practices because IMO we are better hunters than gun hunters. I truley believe here in Arkansas we can have good hunting and kill big deer. I hunt both private and public land and split those about 50/50 in my time in the woods. EVERY single year I pass on deer that most people would be glad to kill and sometimes I regret it but it gives me fuel to push what I believe. If we as not only hunters but bow hunters push for better deer quality it can/will be achieved. I talk to people that say if I dont shoot it somebody else will and yes thats possible but how do you really know? What are the chances really and what does it matter if its a immature buck??? Kill does!!!!!! Just on our license alone we can kill 4 does with our bows. So what if we dont always kill a buck. I know I am probably stepping on someones toes and truthfully I dont give a rats @ss but I know its every one that gets on this forums dream to just have a real CHANCE to have a 125 inch plus deer walk by us every year. My point in this venting is to let everyone know that its not going to happen if as a state and as bowhunters we shoot young small deer. Bring a video camera or just a still camera with you to the stand and show the people in your hunting group that kills these small deer and let them know what your passing up. Ask them not to shoot this deer if they see it. LEAD BY EXAMPLE and dont just get lucky and kill a monster help grow a monster.

goatranch
September 30th, 2009, 02:36 PM
I do agree with you. But heres the other side of the coin and no disrespect for you and your ideas on bucks.

The average weekend hunter usually does not have a surplus of time to put into doing what it takes to find, pattern and kill better bucks. I am sometimes that guy. Over time I am becoming more learned and try to hold out for better bucks BUT in years past I have had my share of times that I passed on a big doe or a decent buck only to not have another sighting of a deer the rest of the season. So tag soup for me. This is a reality for most.

I agree the fast is if you want to kill bigger better bucks you cannot shoot everything that walks past you. So its a bit of a gamble. What to do? Most people are meat hunters like me but I would like the chance to shoot a 130 or better buck once or twice in my lifetime.

Personally I think I good approach is to kill the first mature doe that you are able to. You have meat...now go for the big boy. If you don't kill him or see him you WILL learn and be a much better hunter for it.

BeauAR
September 30th, 2009, 03:06 PM
This is an easy one. Take a kid out hunting. If you don't have a son or daughter there's plenty of kids that would jump at the opportunity. I'm not trying to get the sentimental good guy vote but that seems like the easiest thing to do. That deer can be culled and the kiddos will be ecstatic to kill a big deer. Just my opinion.

GobGetrvideo
September 30th, 2009, 04:03 PM
I do agree with you. But heres the other side of the coin and no disrespect for you and your ideas on bucks.

The average weekend hunter usually does not have a surplus of time to put into doing what it takes to find, pattern and kill better bucks. I am sometimes that guy. Over time I am becoming more learned and try to hold out for better bucks BUT in years past I have had my share of times that I passed on a big doe or a decent buck only to not have another sighting of a deer the rest of the season. So tag soup for me. This is a reality for most.

I agree the fast is if you want to kill bigger better bucks you cannot shoot everything that walks past you. So its a bit of a gamble. What to do? Most people are meat hunters like me but I would like the chance to shoot a 130 or better buck once or twice in my lifetime.

Personally I think I good approach is to kill the first mature doe that you are able to. You have meat...now go for the big boy. If you don't kill him or see him you WILL learn and be a much better hunter for it.

I understand that there is a fine line but again i did post this on a bow hunting forum and our season is 5 months long. I meat hunt! I pretty much live on deer by choice! The joke around my house is we dont buy beef. With 5 months to stick a doe for meat I believe that 2.5 year old can walk and your going to have another chance to kill for meat. My argument (not really argument but my point is) for the guys that get there pride in front of them that they think it makes them better hunters in the eyes of others by killing just anything is to wake up! I know personally and for a lot of you guys if someone tells you "I saw a couple small bucks, a few does, and one 16 inch 8 point this weekend thats going to be a stud next year but i didnt shoot!" that makes me think a lot of the guy for letting the 8 point go.

Just like different parts of the country different parts of our state has higher and lower quality of deer. But with that said the one mainstay that we can all take steps in helping is with age structure. I PROMISE i will never be the @ss hole that dogs on someone for killing a lessor deer than I would shoot but would love to push the idea that we all together can make a difference in the quality of hunting that we have. Everyone can make a difference and make a statement not only with talking open about it but by our actions.

goatranch
September 30th, 2009, 04:13 PM
I hear you.

AND here is the OTHER side of the other side...

Used to have some hunters out my way, let me correct my self...some SLOB hunters. They never got out of their truck and only hunted rifle season. Anyway they drive around in circles on their land shooting at any deer they see. One year my buddy and I heard shots, we knew it was them, probably 6 or 7 or 8 shots! Later that evening getting out of the woods my buddy ran into them on the road to ask if they got anything. They said yep look in the back. There was a REAL nice heavy 8 point...just shot all to pieces! Most of the meat was going to be blood shot and not edible but hey they got THEIR DEER! I hope there are less of those types around now days. There are truly all types.

AR_Headhunter
September 30th, 2009, 04:14 PM
You are fighting several fronts on this 1 buddy. The AGFC is not as concerned about QDM as they pretend to be. If they were you would see seasons set to where we could truly balance our herd. Then on the other hand you have a high % of Arkansas hunters who think they should be allowed to kill any deer that crosses their path. It's the classic if it's brown it's down mentality. They see QDM as TDM & fight it tooth & nail. I'm all for QDM. What we really need to do is to show landowners how QDM can be profitable to them but if we do succeed then in 10 years Arkansas would be like Kansas, Illinios, Iowa, & the other "big buck" states. Outfitters would lease up every square inch of available dirt. We have the genetics here to rival anywhere but what we really need is a mentality change. JMHO

goatranch
September 30th, 2009, 04:18 PM
You are fighting several fronts on this 1 buddy. The AGFC is not as concerned about QDM as they pretend to be. If they were you would see seasons set to where we could truly balance our herd. Then on the other hand you have a high % of Arkansas hunters who think they should be allowed to kill any deer that crosses their path. It's the classic if it's brown it's down mentality. They see QDM as TDM & fight it tooth & nail. I'm all for QDM. What we really need to do is to show landowners how QDM can be profitable to them but if we do succeed then in 10 years Arkansas would be like Kansas, Illinios, Iowa, & the other "big buck" states. Outfitters would lease up every square inch of available dirt. We have the genetics here to rival anywhere but what we really need is a mentality change. JMHO

SO true.

When I went down south to hunt with my buddy down around Mulberry in national forest all them guys do not shoot does or used to not. He told me not to let that bother me...if I were to see a doe shoot it if I wanted. We have to break these types of mentalities.

GobGetrvideo
September 30th, 2009, 04:54 PM
Good point from both of you! Oh and i know that we are all fighting a fight you cant totally win but each and every person that takes a step back and says "Hey, I can make a little difference" is a win! THey are going to teach and things will keep moving forward. 15 years ago you heard very few nice bucks that were let walk. You hear of more and more now a days. I got fired up earlier for the fact that i hear so many pointing fingers at others for the reason why they do it and IMO is just stupidity and lack of leadership in general. Looking back at my post i may have came off as an ass but I am just a little too pasionate about it sometimes. AR_Headhunter the big deer your after this year would never have made it to what it is if shot as a 2.5 year old and there could be more high caliber deer around if we would let them get age.

AR_Headhunter
September 30th, 2009, 05:37 PM
The terrain is the only thing that helps them here. There is such a poachers mentality in these parts it makes the good hunters sick. You can't get the laws enforced due to the buddy system. For instance, my zone which is 6 they are allowed to run dogs but the vast majority of zone 6 lays inside the Ozark National Forest WMA & Piney Creeks WMA which are both closed to dogs. The dog runners will run their dog all over the WMA's & the wardens will not ticket them. We have some of the most rugged mountainous terrain you will ever see in Arkansas inside Zone 6. There is no logical reason to allow dogs to be ran here but due to "tradition" it's a hard fight. The cure many of us have found is simply SSS. To bad it has to be that way but until the AGFC decides to bite the bullet & do whats right they leave law abiding sportsmen no choice. IMO

jna329
October 1st, 2009, 09:14 PM
QDM is tuff to get people to agree upon. My thought is this - if you know the deer is mature and not what you want in your area- take him out via youths. So many kids dont get the opportunity to harvest a quality animal. most take a doe or spike so a deer like that is great for a kid. Its a good deer for anyone with a bow but it needs to be legal. Letting a youth take this does 2 main things. It removes that buck from the gene pool and allows a kid to get a chance of a lifetime. How many of you took a deer like that as your first? I know I didnt. Anyway- if you cant get a kid to go hunt during youth season and still want him gone-then take him. Just be sure you can live with your decision.

fishmannyj
October 1st, 2009, 09:50 PM
This is an easy one. Take a kid out hunting. If you don't have a son or daughter there's plenty of kids that would jump at the opportunity. I'm not trying to get the sentimental good guy vote but that seems like the easiest thing to do. That deer can be culled and the kiddos will be ecstatic to kill a big deer. Just my opinion.

I like this solution!!! I really dont have a prob with the three point rule....one of the few the AGFC has that is not complete BS!

goatranch
October 2nd, 2009, 10:27 AM
Maybe they need REAL hunters in AGFC instead of people with a political agenda.

hunt4meat
October 2nd, 2009, 11:17 AM
I like the 3 point rule, but as a hunter, saying that, I hunt "deer" not horns. I will not pass up the opportunity to shoot a big one, but I want to put meat in the freezer 1st. That is priority #1, 1st legal deer gets wacked as far as I am concerned. Hunting is for food, always has been and always will be in my house. That is how I was raised.

But after I get some emat in freezer, then I will start looking for bucks, and I do like horns, but only after I get some meat in freezer.

AR_Headhunter
October 3rd, 2009, 11:19 AM
Maybe they need REAL hunters in AGFC instead of people with a political agenda.

What we need is people who are willing to make the tough choices that need to be made for the betterment of our wildlife & hunter opportunity.

jna329
October 3rd, 2009, 09:47 PM
what we need is people who are willing to make the tough choices that need to be made for the betterment of our wildlife & hunter opportunity.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!