think Vermont needs to rethink the doe management they have in place....
think that the buck to doe ratio is way out of wack,something to the tune of 10 or so to 1 buck....
thank god our head of F&G is so damn smart
i also think that youth weekend is out of control as most the deer are shot by fathers and not children(probably starting a war here)
3 point rule is just plain stupid,3-4 pointers being shot in excess of 200 pounds
if they want to make it better to hunt in VT they better put a different plan in place....heres what i think should be done
3 points on ONE side for bucks for any season(has to be 6 points total)
4 day doe only season for rifle
no more doe tags during ML as we are killing bred does
archery season should be the first tag be doe(have to kill a doe with first issued tag)
poachers(big problem in my area)would be instant life ban of license,and mandatory felony
it would take 3-4 years but i "think" i would turn out for the better
I live in Maine and see many of the same issues. As a born and raised Iowa boy I am perplexed by the thinking in the NE. They should look at the management practiced by the well known states.
I know one of Maine's biggest issue is they want the income from the NR's. A loss in income for a few years would reap the benefits by better herd management.
thats the thing,if they would look at other states with trophy managment,they would see why people would travel long ways and pay good money for the opportunity to harvest a mature whitetail....the only whitetail that survives past 4 years of age are does in VT.....have seen a few does taken in season that were in excess of 190 dressed....sad part is the average buck is in the 130-140lb range....to me its about quality not quantity....but this state seems to think different
You cannot compare Maine to Vermont. I have hunted both and can tell you the number one difference is feed. In Maine they actually log in the woods. By doing so it creates new growth(browse) for the deer to feed on.
They also tried shooting does during rifle season during the 1980's and it almost destroyed the deer herd in VT. As far as shoot does during ML season, the success rate is around 15% if I remember right. So if they pass out 10,000 permits they are only killing 1,500 does. And the point restrictions seem to be working good, so no need to change that.
Poaching in any form needs to be punished more harsh. I am so sick of hearing people say that they "Newmonted" a deer. Shot it in New York and reported in Vermont or vice versa. No wonder our deer herd numbers are all messed up. If you are a parent and shoot an animal during youth weekend and make a kid tag it, you should be ashamed of yourself. And if you are caught you should have your privledge to hunt revoked for life on the first offense, NO SECOND CHANCE.
Ok I am all done ranting for now, good luck this weekend to all and shoot straight.
i could shoot does all day long if i was the illegal type becuase thats ALL i see,and um dont know where you are at in VT,but logging is still a happening thing where i am......the deer in my area have plenty of feed.....dont remember the 80's far as deer hunting goes as i am only 33 years of age,im not saying they should do it for 10 years,just maybe one or two....
either way the buck/doe ratio is way off!
another thing that bugs the crap outta me is pushing deer day after day after day.....thats 90% why 3/4 of the lands are posted now!
some people have no respect for land owners and people who ask permission to hunt!
I have to interject for a moment and say that in all fairness....i believe that the ratios may be off in some areas and right on or better than so in others.
Personally this season i captured photos of ten different whitetail bucks in an area less than 200 yards from my home.....and saw 13 different bucks...mostly yearling or 1 1/2 year olds with little baskets right up until i finally closed escrow on the first of two nice 8 pointers i harvested in a very remote and wild area in vermont. I did see a good number of does...some of which were in the 140 -180 lb class. However with good scouting...daily as I hunted or traveled in or out of the woods...as I am a stand hunter, I made adjustments as i felt neccesary to make my hunt successful. I will say that the spike horn law may be helping....i do think that a three point on one side would be better,,,,,and that a one deer limit in some zones would be more effective and maybe a doe cull or relocation in others. The fish and wildlife department was alot more brazen with its efforts to increase hunting opportunities for us in the 70's...with stocking of deer etc. I would like to maybe see some canadian stock genes here in vermont...even some maine genes. Get some bigger and higher quality racks out there. But remember,....even with a spike law.....if you shoot every three pointer or small 8 you see......they will not get to grow up. I say excercise a little more patience and resolve when deer hunting and the rewards will be huge. I used my deepest patience and resolve to harvest the bucks i killed. I was very proud of both of the bucks. They are not my best...yet they are great deer as far as i am concerned for Vermont quality. I would like to note that three big 8 pointers were harvested in my area.....I harvested two of them....and saw a few others as well.....even saw two bucks bigger than the ones i harvested...one took out my first bucks eye..and left four big tine bruises on his rear quarter. I would have liked to have had a clear shot at that big fella. Maybe next season...for now...I am off to New Jersey. Good luck to everyone and hope that my insights help you in the future. Oh and by the way....I agree 100000000% with Vt diamond about the newmont and youth hunting comments.....get caught shooting your kids deer.....license suspended forever...and the newmont thing.....cmon. You cant find a big buck in vt ???? get out of your truck and get back in the big woods....I assure you that there are plenty of big bucks back there. We estimated a good 8 - 12 mature bucks in the 5 mile area we hunted. We had game trail cam photos of at least 6 of them. So dont believe all the hype about the ratio. Some areas yes,,,,,,but it is not a blanket statement.
Quoted from chunks7mm
3 points on ONE side for bucks for any season(has to be 6 points total)
***I dont think you get the chance to count 6 points....3 on one side is a good choice though. ***
4 day doe only season for rifle
***Does it matter when the does are shot ? before they are bred or after still takes them out of the herd.......think about it.***
no more doe tags during ML as we are killing bred does
***this statement does not make any sense.....you are against this season of doe killing..? Yet you are suggesting more doe only kills in other and more seasons ? hmmmmmmn.***
archery season should be the first tag be doe(have to kill a doe with first issued tag)
*****Archery season already offers you the opportunity to take two does.....and our season allows all three to be does. with only two being bucks...........i think this should be done by zones. doe ratios have to be studied far more first. and just because you didnt see alot of bucks...or deer....doesnt mean they are not out there, I assure you they may be watching you walk right by. ****
poachers(big problem in my area)would be instant life ban of license,and mandatory felony
*** Poaching sux.....no question......we need to all be the stewards of the land and police the woods best we can....if your buddy is a poacher tell him to stop or drop a dime on him ....there is a 1800 number completely confidential. operation game thief. give that a try...im sure one of the overzealous wardens that spend most of their time harrassing the lawful hunters would love to spend some time chasing real criminals for a change.
Have a great season....hope everyone sees big bucks next year,
Quoted from chunks7mm
3 points on ONE side for bucks for any season(has to be 6 points total)
***I dont think you get the chance to count 6 points....3 on one side is a good choice though. ***
maybe take the time to look?
4 day doe only season for rifle
***Does it matter when the does are shot ? before they are bred or after still takes them out of the herd.......think about it.***
no more doe tags during ML as we are killing bred does
***this statement does not make any sense.....you are against this season of doe killing..? Yet you are suggesting more doe only kills in other and more seasons ? hmmmmmmn.*** think about it?does are bred during ML,you maybe killing one or two bucks that are in the womb!so,maybe two to three deer at a time
archery season should be the first tag be doe(have to kill a doe with first issued tag)
*****Archery season already offers you the opportunity to take two does.....and our season allows all three to be does. with only two being bucks...........i think this should be done by zones. doe ratios have to be studied far more first. and just because you didnt see alot of bucks...or deer....doesnt mean they are not out there, I assure you they may be watching you walk right by. ****oh,i know they are out there
poachers(big problem in my area)would be instant life ban of license,and mandatory felony
*** Poaching sux.....no question......we need to all be the stewards of the land and police the woods best we can....if your buddy is a poacher tell him to stop or drop a dime on him ....there is a 1800 number completely confidential. operation game thief. give that a try...im sure one of the overzealous wardens that spend most of their time harrassing the lawful hunters would love to spend some time chasing real criminals for a change.
Have a great season....hope everyone sees big bucks next year,
take care and be safe.:wink:
i have hunted southern Vermont and have had success every time i go down there,you have a great place to hunt,no doubt....but its not northern section at all....you have many more deer!they must like to relocate running down hill
i have hunted southern Vermont and have had success every time i go down there,you have a great place to hunt,no doubt....but its not northern section at all....you have many more deer!they must like to relocate running down hill
nice bucks!congrats![/QUOTE]
hmmm weird all the chatter i get from people is that franklin addison and orange counties have the highest numbers of deer...oh and orleans as well.
strange.....guess i will have to make a drive sometime.
could be?maybe they are right in my back yard,but highly doubt it....no doubt there is deer here....but there could be much more,only time will tell i guess
southern vt has more deer in places
the champlain valley s numbers seem to be highest in vt , but also thats in pockets
north central and north east got hammered last year with winter kill
and thats just what i ve seen and what the F&G suggest (and i know there never right but what i witnessed where i ve hunted backs some of it up)
i know that if you take 2 differant places in the state (northen and southern) it s like hunting differant states ! everything is differant from food to terrain
look at the E areas more moose than deer and say like Q last time i was down there i went into state land and saw 15 deer in 4 hours !
was nothing like what i think of vt hunting more like hunting mass
Grew up in VT 30 years, still have a camp with my brother in Cabot. Please tell me how do you manage something that isn't there. The deer herd in VT is a joke, 1 buck, no does and 2 seasons take your pick. I now live in Iowa the land of plenty and we dont even have the liberal harvest VT has...wake up tell Shawn the Bio man to go back to Texas
My rant because I like VT it is an awsome state.
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