PDA

View Full Version : Aim or not to aim?



Tommeegun
September 28th, 2011, 05:16 PM
Hey guys, I'm new to this site, also new to traditional archery. I started long ago with a recurve then immediately switched to a compound.I have ONLY hunted with that since then(25years now). But have since purchased an old Damon Howatt Hunter, 45lbs @ 29". Also a Bear Takedown Hunter, 60lbs @ 29", in mint cond. I have sinced learned how to properly spine and bareshaft tune my arrows. I now wish to hunt with the Bear bow but still have arrows all over the target with very few grouping together. I have tried mixing up the order in which I shoot every arow thinking some might fly better than others, but still only some grouping. I was wondering if I should try to change my aiming method or continue to just try to make the arrows hit where I look without actually aiming? Some days I'm spot on and others totally miss the target totally at 20yds. My goal is to be the best I can be,make a clean ethical kill, and maybe even Robin Hood an arrow or 2. My first shots are usually off but then follow ups get better because I see where to compensate for my errors. Any suggestions please!

grantmac
September 28th, 2011, 05:59 PM
How is your shooting with the 45# bow?
60# is a lot of weight and really not necessary for hunting medium sized game.

Most shooting problems are a result of poor form, being overbowed is the most common factor in poor form.

-Grant

Viper1
September 28th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Tommee -

Since you know how to use a compound, set up a simple temporary sight (toothpick/matchstick) to the back of the bow and see what it does to your group size. That will tell you immediately if you need form work or an aiming method.

Viper1 out.

BLACK WOLF
September 28th, 2011, 08:32 PM
I was wondering if I should try to change my aiming method or continue to just try to make the arrows hit where I look without actually aiming? Some days I'm spot on and others totally miss the target totally at 20yds. My goal is to be the best I can be,make a clean ethical kill, and maybe even Robin Hood an arrow or 2.

Your form and aiming style should be based primarily on your goals, abilities and personality.

Are your goals to be a bowhunter, target archer or both? Based on what I read...you want to be both. If target archery is part of your goals...than what kind of target archery interests you?

Instinctive aiming has some advantages over other aiming techniques under some hunting circumstances...BUT...it can be a much harder aiming technique to master for some archers.

Is there a particular reason why you first chose to aim Instinctively?

There are other aiming methods that can be utilized while hunting.

My first suggestion would be to develop your form before you really begin working on your aiming.

Using a matchstick or a single pin will take a way many of the aspects of aiming but you still will need to work on your timing, which is where form meets aiming. I personally feel you'll benefit more from working a Blank Bale...especially if you have someone to coach you. If you don't you might want to pick up some of the Masters of the Barebow videos that show some of the different styles and techniques.

Ray :shade:

Tommeegun
September 29th, 2011, 02:52 PM
Hello all, I just want to say thanks for showing interest in helping me out, although all you experienced archers are not here to physically see my form or lack of..I guess my goal is to be able to hit what and where I choose to place my arrows without wasting a shot first, then making adjustments. I chose traditional archery because there are in my opinion, too many gadgets, electronics, and things that take the pure passion away from archery. This is also why I choose to shoot with no sights. Simplicity seems best. I never thought about trying the matchstick trick just to see what is really going on here. I also WILL spend more time at the Blind Bale to practice repeditive good form. As far as the Howatt lighter pound pull bow, I guess thats part of the compound mentality of more is better, consequently I do shoot better with it. I certainly let you all know how I made out. Thanks You to Grantmac, Viper, and Black Wolf!

grantmac
September 29th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Less is definitely more when it comes to draw weight and learning traditional archery. I'd recommend finding a 30-35# bow if you can, they were the most common target weight (for a reason) in the 60s and 70s so there are lots out there, good bows like your Howatt.

Making a good shot with trad gear is more then about where the arrow goes. If you short draw or pluck but the arrow still hits the spot it won't be in good tune and penetration will suffer. That is why you can get better penetration from a good shot out of a lighter bow in some cases then a poor (but still accurate) shot from a heavy one.

Spending a bunch of time at the bale is a solid plan. So long as you are inprinting good form, if you are practicing poor form then its taking steps back.

-Grant

Tommeegun
September 29th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Grant, I just came inside from shooting the Howatt and shot 12 arrows all at what looked like 20yds, but who cares about yardage right?, anyway all were in a 12" group I was so thrilled! However I was always wondering about the brace height for that since I bought it used on the internet and there is no info on it. I have it at 7 5/8 but feel its just not there yet and want to be within its spot. I had the draw weight checked at the sport shop and it said about 47lbs at 29", my draw length and I have 2216 and2315 shafts. At 31" raw shaft at 1paces and 125gr point Im still showing stiff arrow. So I tried the full 32" bare shaft and still show stiff arrow, so maybe I will try a different shops scale. According to Eastons hunting shaft chart I have the correct shafts, one being a little light, and one being better penetration. Any Ideas about the Howatt Hunter's brace height????

grantmac
September 29th, 2011, 05:17 PM
Yardage does matter, but less so when you are under 25yds.
How long is the bow? Brace height is an adjustment, not really a set value. However there is a range for every bow.
Where are you anchoring right now? Can you post a picture?

-Grant

Tommeegun
September 29th, 2011, 09:49 PM
Grant, the bow is 62" and in my previous post I meant to say I was bareshafting at 10 paces, not 1. Anyway I anchor with my middle finger on my right canine tooth. I did go up 4 twists in the string and now the brace height is 7 7/8 and it seems to be quieter and a bit better . I will try to post a picture or even maybe a quick video.

grantmac
September 30th, 2011, 03:55 AM
There are some very knowledgeable people on this site about those Howatt bows, I'm not one of them.
It can probably shoot up to a 8.25" brace height, that will make the arrows act weaker. Other than that you can run heavier points to weaken them a little. Charts are just a starting place and if you are coming from a compound its likely you are losing some draw length. I draw 29" with a d-loop but I'm down to 28.5" with a lightweight trad bow, 28" with anything hunting weight.

Finger on a tooth is a decent anchor, I used my middle fingernail behind my upper canine for my high anchor. The only problem is where to put your thumb, most like it under the jaw and I just can't reach to it ends-up alongside my head. Seems to work well with my face shape.

-Grant

Tommeegun
October 2nd, 2011, 08:58 PM
Hey guys, I did find out some specs on the Howatt and the Bear and am now shooting a lot better with a lot tighter groups with the Howatt. I do find that the Howatt shoots broadheads very accurately with very tight groups beyond 20yds. On the other hand, my field tips are a little spread out. I did achieve my tight groups with broadheads by increasing my brace height because I kept showi ng weak spine. That worked very well with my hunting heads but switching back to field tips they still show weak arrow. Also my bow limbs create quite a bang, lots of vibration. I did try string silencers but its still too loud for my liking. As far as the Bear, I seem to be all over the place but definately better with hunting heads. I really think its probably too heavy for me, plus after spending about 2hrs with the Howatt I was pretty tired physically so it could be my fatigue. I will rest a day or two the back at it. I should also stick to one bow for now but was really looking to hunt with the heavier draw Bear. That too is a little loud. Hey but at least my upper back is quite fatigued so thats a good start right??? I did pay close attention to my form today and things are truly getting better.

Tommeegun
October 2nd, 2011, 09:08 PM
One more thing guys, Ireally did try to relax my hand at anchor and tried to just let the string go while pulling with my back. I think I have to work on that which might be also a contributor but not really sure of myself . trying not to pluck is really hard. Any tips on methods of practicing it? On my compound I prefer my Carter target release for all shooting with that Hoyt. Its like a combo of finger and back tension release which I shoot extremely well with. I hope to be equal with my recurve shooting instinctively.

Sanford
October 3rd, 2011, 01:59 PM
One more thing guys, Ireally did try to relax my hand at anchor and tried to just let the string go while pulling with my back. I think I have to work on that which might be also a contributor but not really sure of myself . trying not to pluck is really hard. Any tips on methods of practicing it? On my compound I prefer my Carter target release for all shooting with that Hoyt. Its like a combo of finger and back tension release which I shoot extremely well with. I hope to be equal with my recurve shooting instinctively.

Note where your draw hand winds up after the arrow is gone. If it is still at the anchor point, or worse, out to the side, you have a good possibility of creep and/or pluck. If pulling with the back with a relaxed bow hand and shoulders, your hand and arm should fly in a path following the rotation of the shoulder and wind up close to behind your head. This should happen without "making it happen".

Making it happen is as weak/poor release as the previous mentioned scenarios. Allowing it to happen is what you want. It should be just the natural movement of opposing forces after the load is gone, i.e., the release.

Tommeegun
October 4th, 2011, 03:15 PM
I figured I would let you guys know how I was doing with all the help you guys gave me. Well after countless hours of racking my brain, I had a light bulb go on. I remembered what I believe Grantmac said to me about going from compound to recurve. He said that I probably will lose draw length, so I took an unfletched shaft and transferred measurements from 26" to 31" stood alongside a mirror, drew back to where I anchor and was totally in shock of what I saw! From being 29" on my compound I dropped to a 27 1/2" on the recurve. So instead of shooting a 31 1/2" shaft I now drop to a 29 1/2" shaft. And looking at an arrow chart that Windtalker posted for someone some time back, my spining is all wrong because of that. Hence,now I see why I really couldnt tune my bare shafts to my bow properly because they werent right at all...and no wonder how much I ncreased my brace height I couldnt weaken that arrow shaft. This could not have come at a worst time, all my arrows but a few are fletched and cut and all wrong. However I do feel so relieved I figured out why nothing was working and why nothing wouldmake any sense. Now I know. It just goes to show you that you can learn every day from anyone, and just when you think you have it all figured out you dont.

grantmac
October 4th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Just get some heavier points, you will loose some speed but you should be able to get them hitting inline.
If you have string silencers take them off.

As you develop you may get back some or all of that lost draw length. I personally think you are overbowed with the 45# and you'd do best with something in the 30# range.

-Grant