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HoytShooter88
March 3rd, 2005, 09:33 AM
Here is my situation, I got my 05 UltraTec a few months ago. I am shooting it well 300 with I would say a average 50X count. The pro I shoot with tells me I am a tad short (front shoulder low). I do feel some pressure in the left elbow and shoulder. I have put the bow in 28 1/2 and it gives me that feeling of being short. So what I am thinking about doing is keeping it in the 28 but adding a D-Loop. Any advice on this would be extremly appreciated.

JAVI
March 3rd, 2005, 01:22 PM
but here is a bit of something I’m working on…There are many factors to finding both the bows draw length and yours.

If you are truly trying to shoot back tension then there are several considerations that must be determined. There is a position of the draw arm side scapula that is very close to the spine but not quite there, where it requires almost no movement at all to fire your release. It isn’t something that can be described in print; it must be felt. This is your anchor point for back tension. Where you reference with your release hand for repeatability is predicated on personal preference, the range you will be shooting regularly, the length of your release and arm, even your draw weight and the axle to axle of your bow play a part. Some of these factors are adjustable and others like the length of your arm are not.

For the past year and a half, I have been compiling photos and information from many of the top archers in the world in relation to string angle and draw length. I have seen a commonality between the winning archers. Man or woman, the string angle of their bows measure 90 degrees inclusive (with a plus or minus of 2 degrees) and the juncture of their arrow nock and string is directly under the cornea of their eye. There are very few exceptions to this among the top echelon and even then the divergence is only slight, remaining within the eye.

Their reference points will vary, depending on the release they use and the type of distances they regularly shoot. The longer-range shooters tend to reference lower for additional distance. Even this will vary depending on the speed of their bow. Some touch the string to their nose in some manner, others don’t; this is primarily dependent on personal preference and facial features. Most but not all allow the string to touch some part of their face.

This has lead me to the conclusion that there are two draw lengths we must worry about. Yes, they are intertwined but they are also somewhat independent as well. The draw length of the bow, from the pivot point of the grip to the arrow nock when the nock is properly aligned to the shooter should be treated as almost a separate issue. Of course this can be dependent on proper form as well, but assuming you are comfortable with your stance and upper body form, it shouldn’t be a huge leap to find a draw length that will place the nock directly under your eye.

After you are satisfied that you have the draw length of the bow within a ¼” plus or minus it is time to set the draw length of your release/loop and arm combination. Here it gets a bit more involved because you need to find a solid repeatable reference point that will provide the sight distance you need. Most reference off the back of the jaw under the ear, but it isn’t necessary, many fine archers reference lower and more forward, with today’s solid walled cams it is much easier to repeat than ever before. Pick a point that will allow you to reach the anchor point of the scapula position.

Start with a long loop and shorten it until you can fire the release with a minimum of horizontal movement (around) in your release arm elbow. Remember it should be in line with the arrow at the moment the release fires… This means it should start outside of the line and move into it as you contract the rhomboids, lavatory scapula, and trapezius muscles.

Regardless of the axle to axle length you choose; I feel it is important to adhere to the position of the arrow nock. You may with the shorter bows be unable to reach the string with your nose and maintain the upright position that is universally accepted as proper form, but you can find repeatable reference points.

When you get down to the fine tuning of the release motion, it will entail adjusting in small increments the bow draw length also…. When you find the magic spot it is an unbelievably smooth and effortless release. Requiring no conscious thought.

There is much more to this…. But this should get you started…

If you are a “Drive by Shooter” or a “Speed at ALL Cost Shooter” then the above does not apply…

Then again, I could be full of it.... and completely off track....

HoytShooter88
March 3rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
WOW !!!! That is a bunch of information...I have never been a speed freak, for 3-D I set my bow up at around 280-285...I have been shooting a Carter 3D target release for about 5 years now as a back tension not a thumb puncher..I appreciate your reply JAVELINA it is a lot to think about..

W.Moua
March 3rd, 2005, 02:45 PM
that is good
I am just starting back tension
and this is gonna help me tonight when I shoot my bow

I shoot about 2 hours everynight
trying to perfect my form
so I can win some $$$$$$$$$$

gokidd
March 3rd, 2005, 03:53 PM
Thank you for sharing, Javelina.
I'm working to finetune drawlength at this stage of my learning and this is some fascinating insight.
I'll be curious to see what the included angle of my bowstring at full draw might be, as I have an UltraTec with a 25.5-inch draw at present.
Do you have any theory as to why 90-degrees is the magic number -- maximum bow efficiency, you think?
And I would take it that your description of the nock being directly under the eye is observed from 90 degrees to the arrow axis, yes?
Many thanks for an excellent post,
Bob

JAVI
March 3rd, 2005, 04:03 PM
Thank you for sharing, Javelina.
I'm working to finetune drawlength at this stage of my learning and this is some fascinating insight.
I'll be curious to see what the included angle of my bowstring at full draw might be, as I have an UltraTec with a 25.5-inch draw at present.
Do you have any theory as to why 90-degrees is the magic number -- maximum bow efficiency, you think?
And I would take it that your description of the nock being directly under the eye is observed from 90 degrees to the arrow axis, yes?
Many thanks for an excellent post,
Bob

I think it is a combination of several things, but primarily it allows the peep to be much closer to the eye than a more abrupt angle might. Of course the axle to axle and the draw length determines the angle of the string. Most probably choose the longer axle to axle as a torsional/ mass association as well.

Yes, you must us a direct side shot for this to work…

njshadowwalker
March 3rd, 2005, 04:16 PM
That is one of the overlooked aspects of a d loop. Itll take some time but you can adjust draw lenght by 1/32 or so with the loops. This way your draw length wont really change but you shoulder/back/elbow position will.