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View Full Version : Tuning w/ drop away rest



elkaddict
March 7th, 2005, 08:48 PM
I'm getting ready to paper tune a Patriot SC w/ a trophy taker drop away rest. Arent tuning issues greatly reduced with a drop away rest? While I am new to tuning, it seems to me that if the center shot is spot on other problems are less likely. Am I right? Anything special issues to look for? Thanks in advance.

hansel
March 7th, 2005, 09:24 PM
With a drop away you are greatly reducing the chance of fletching contact, that's what makes them nice. With my two Hoyt's all I did was set centershot, and nock position, and they paper tuned perfectly. The only timing is when the arrow is raised into position at full draw, you want the arrow to be raised the last 1-2 inches of your draw. What I did was take a arrow, place some masking tape on it, and make 1inch marks to check when you are drawing the bow. Then paper tune, to see where you are at. Hopefully I've not confused you, once you play with it for awhile, it's really easy to tune.

elkaddict
March 8th, 2005, 01:18 AM
I spent the evening punching paper. Started out with low right tears. With adjustments, I've got the vertical adjustment worked out. However, no matter which way I adjust, I cant seem to get rid of the right tear. I'm stumped, but I'm also new to paper tuning. I'm shooting 27.5" gt 7595 at 74lbs. I am shooting a release. For comparison, I shot some 5575s I had laying around and they are fine right to left, but tear downwards. Tonight I've read both Eastman's guide and a chapter from an older book on bow tuning. The book suggests that while unusal, sometimes a right tear evidences too stiff a spine. Could this be my problem? I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how when shooting a release a modestly stiff arrow would tear to the right unless it is caused by hand torque. I do shoot w/ an open hand. I've read repeatedly that for a 70-75 bows such as my Patriots, that, 5575s were probably not stiff enough. Any suggestions

bucknasty
March 8th, 2005, 07:02 AM
i replied over on hunting.net.

CA Bowhunter
March 8th, 2005, 08:13 AM
If you are getting a bullet hole with your 55/75 and your center shot is good I think that it telling that is good. Just remember not everyone is the same what work for one mite not work for you. To check your spine on 75/95 try a 125 gr or 140 gr that should tell if it is to stiff also draw length has allot to do with it to the longer your draw the more power is delivered to your arrow and the more your arrow flexes. I hope this helps

elkaddict
March 8th, 2005, 10:32 AM
I haven't tried the heavier tips because they would fould up my FOC--still, it might be worth while just to see what it does. I'll see if I can't pick up some heavier tips over lunch. If I recall correctly, going from 100 to 125 tips moves the FOC from 10 to nearly 13%.

hansel
March 8th, 2005, 02:58 PM
What's your set up? Draw wieght, length, lbs. arrow length etc...
i'm shooting Hoyt's viper, and razortec bows. Both are almost the same as far as set up's.
Mine are:
65-66lbs@28 inch draw
cam.5's
NAP drop away
Gold tip XT5575
100gr. field tip
and they are shooting perfect, just by setting centershot, and nock postion.
A paper tear to the right, is telling me that your arrow is fishtailing to the right, I think to correct, you need to move your rest to the left.But don't quote me on that, also NAP has a simple tuning section on there web sit, that's where I got my information.

cuttingedge
March 8th, 2005, 09:05 PM
I shoot a Conquest 3 with a drop zone and cxl arrows. I have never been able to get my Conquest to shoot a "perfect" bullet hole. Tears a little fletching left throught the paper. In some instances, a minor tear is acceptable. My bow shoots great and hits where I aim it. If you have good flight and you are hitting where you aim, shoot it.

Deezlin
March 8th, 2005, 09:33 PM
I use a micro adjustable Trophy Taker. I don't take a lot of stock in paper tuning. Oh, I do shoot arrows through paper and get them reasonable close. But, this I switch to a process called "super tuning" which involves shooting vertical and horizontal lines at various distances and adjusting the rest and sight so that the arrows are all falling on the vertical lines in general. Refer to Easton Arrow Tuning Guide. As far as I am concerned this is dynamic tuning and where the rubber mets the road.

travisc406
March 8th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Thats what i suggest. Had the same problem once too. dropped down to a lighter spine arrow and couldn't beleive the difference. :D

elkaddict
March 8th, 2005, 11:32 PM
Thanks for the responses. I also shoot a 02 Patriot (same model/different year). Its set at 71lbs rather than the 03 which set at 74. The 02 is shooting near bullet holes with the same 7595s. Only difference between the bows (other than stock differences) is the 02 has a quick tune 1000 fingers while the 03 has the TT drop away. Seems odd that a similar but lighter bow would shoot the the same arrows. I shot 125 field tips out of both bows tonite and it didn't seem to affect the paper tears of either bow so I'm not sure its a spine thing. I'm heading to Texas next week to chase hogs. I had hoped to bloody the 03. Might take the 02 instead. I prefer the lighter weight/feel of the 03 and hope to make it the primary bow. Despite the paper differences, one does not shoot better than other with field tips in my 35 yard back yard range. I've not had a good opportunity to compare the accuracy w/ broadheads. I suspect that may well make a difference. It bugs me to know something is not as it should be and be unable to fix it. :mad: Keep the suggestions coming please!

Red Wing
March 9th, 2005, 05:35 AM
Try pulling the drop away and replacing it with the rest from the other bow or another launcher rest.
I was having the same type of problem and it made a difference.

Dave Nowlin
March 9th, 2005, 05:52 PM
I have had a Trophy Taker Shakey Hunter on a 2002 Patriot single cam and simply eyeballed the center shot and nock position set the rest to come up in the last inch to inch and a half of draw length and it shot bullet holes. It will do the same thing on my 2003 Black Knight even shooting light arrows at 315 f.p.s. I've never had any trouble with a Trophy Taker Rest regarding paper tuning. In fact they are easier to get a bullet hole with than any other rest I have ever used. Are you possibly having the rest come up too soon? Are you tieing the cord in to close to the rest so as to distort the down cable? Try attaching it to the bus cable 5 inches below the launcher on the Trophy Taker. This will allow the cable to be pulled more directly downward toward the cam rather than distort it in the direction of the riser.
Many folks overlook this. :)
Dave Nowlin

elkaddict
March 9th, 2005, 10:26 PM
The trophy taker is set up so that it only comes up the last inch or two of draw. It is tied in 3"-4" down as you suggest. To try something different, I shot some bare shafts through paper tonight. Made no difference w the right tear. I tried lighter and heaver field points--again, it made no difference. I've thought about going back to a quick tune 1000--this is what I have on my 02 Patriot. Still, there has to be something that can be done--I really had hopes for the trophy taker rest. Any other suggestions?

Dave Nowlin
March 10th, 2005, 02:14 AM
3 to 4 inches is not enough. Come to full draw and look at your bus cable. It will not be going straight down toward your bottom cam. The cable will be shaped more like a V as it is distorted toward the riser. This is further accented if the rest comes up 2 inches before you reach full draw. It is actually much better to attach the drawcord to the cable slide if you can without having fletching contact. Excessive pressure on the bus cable can actually play with your cam timing.
Dave Nowlin

oggie2635
March 11th, 2005, 02:14 AM
have faught this with 2 bowtecs.

#1 set the rest and noc point so when the rest is up the arrow is a little above the hole where the rest bolts on. no more than 1/3 of the arrow should be below the top of the hole.

#2 stand the rest up longer, your bow has a extreme downward noc travel, and the rest has to stay up longer to compensate for that.

#3 if the rest is a tt shakey hunter it will never work. use the tt orignal or better yet use the trophy ridge drop zone.

good luck

elkaddict
March 11th, 2005, 01:18 PM
Oggie

Unfortunately, I am using the shaky hunter. Why won't it work, not enough adjustment or the width of the "Y"?

EAZY
March 12th, 2005, 06:10 AM
Let someone else with your draw length shoot the bow and see if there is a difference.

Dave Nowlin
March 12th, 2005, 07:54 AM
I don't understand this at all. As I mentioned earlier in this post, the first bow I set my TT Shakey Hunter up on was a 2002 Patriot Single Cam. I tied it in about 5 inches down the bus cable as I suggested to you. I have a 28 inch draw, so that is similar, however mine was a 60#. That really doesn't make that much difference though, as I shot both light and heavy arrows without problems. In fact I shot both carbon and aluminum shafts out of this bow with no difficulties. I have shot it cock vane up and cock vane down with no problems. The thing people don't understand about these things is the importance of tying in far enough down the bus cable. Draw your bow and don't just look at the rest coming up, but also carefully study your bus cable. If you use a short string to operate your launcher, you will distort the bus cable. What I mean by distort is you will draw it in toward the riser as you apply pressure at the end of the draw cycle. The more you distort it toward the riser the more it plays with the timing of your bow. At full draw the cable route is changed sufficiently as to make the bow behave as though the bus cable is much shorter. As you shoot and tension becomes relaxed as the arrow starts forward, the cable effectively acts longer causing considerable nock travel issues. When you tie it further down the cable and make the launcher arm come full up at the last inch of your draw cycle you nock travel becomes far more stable because the route of the bus cable is much straighter. It is even better to tie to the cable slide if you can without having fletching clearance problems. In this way there isn't hardly any distortion of the cable and string and both are affected equally by using the cable slide to operate the launcher arm. Why do you think BowTech is incorporating the little tie on tab into the cable slide? It is to help with this exact issue. To keep from messing up the timing of your bow. :)
Dave Nowlin

jwarren
April 11th, 2005, 03:23 AM
I've got the same exact problem with a reflex excursion and a shakey hunter. I will try the elastic cord to the cable slide and see if I can get clearance.

blazerboy
April 11th, 2005, 08:38 PM
I went thru this with my mathews Z max, turned out to be string leech stretching during shot and coming forward and hitting buss cable, also bow torq can cause this. the length of time the rest is up is important to, if it drops too quick it doesn't stabilize arrow before dropping try holding rest up alittle longer. I have this rest and it works well.

1horn
April 12th, 2005, 12:25 AM
If your 5575's are tearing down a little then raise the nock.
A shoot thru rest typically tunes to a stiffer shaft than a dropaway.

Turbo
April 12th, 2005, 11:59 AM
I have a Bowtech Liberty with TT Shaky Hunter and it is attached to the cable slide, I am having issues with vane contact on the rest. Any suggestions???

crpkoki
April 12th, 2005, 06:14 PM
You know, I think that you should try a longer string that pulls from a steeper angle and then you wouln't have near as much cable distortion. That's what I do and I hit nickel sized targets at 20 yrds, and group well within 4" at 30 yrds...I'm not that good or anything and I am no pro, but that's what I did.

crpkoki
April 12th, 2005, 06:17 PM
also, for vane contact you must remember that your arrow HAS to straight dead level from the rest...not 1/8 upr or down like on other rests. I also nock with the cock feather out and hen feathers toward the riser and bring my cables in to about 1/8" or a little more from the vane. I don't know if any of this is helpfull or not.

MEarchernut
April 12th, 2005, 07:02 PM
I notice that you said you shoot with an "open" hand. Do you have your fingers sticking out straight or almost straight, I find a lot of guys do this to avoid gripping the bow when in reality it causes tension in the hand and torque being transferred to the bow, your certainley don't want to close your fingers down on the bow grip but you don't want to try to keep them "open" either. Extend your hand and make a fist, now "open" your fingers, now just let them "hang" you'll feel quickley that this is the most relaxed hand position. Now hold the bow the same way, don't close the fingers on the grip and don't extend them to make them open, just let them hang loosley in the relaxed position, you may find your right and left tears clearing up if this is not how you are gripping now.

luvtherut
April 17th, 2005, 09:39 AM
Just picked up my new Alliegance with a shaky hunter... seems like it might be the launcher hitting on release? Sounds like a "Tung" like you would hear if you were shooting an arrow that is to lite. I shot one of my old 2314 and still hear the same noise.

The shop but foam on the riser shelf and launcher.

How hard should the launcher hit the shelf? I am wondering if maybe there is to much tension at full draw or something.

Helf

bigtim
April 23rd, 2005, 10:22 AM
let someone you know that has excellent form in executing a release shoot your bow through paper and see what they do...your arrows are pushing the envelope of being UNDERsplined if anything so, that's where I'd start...

Medic167
April 23rd, 2005, 11:37 AM
I do not have a TT drop away but do have a HHA DART. I get a right tear if I shoot with my grip hand open. For some reason I palm the grip when I shoot with that hand open. I get bullet holes when I rest my fingers on the front of the riser. Just a suggestion. Good Luck and Good Shooting!

bigmo101
April 23rd, 2005, 12:42 PM
Well the main thing is that I believe that the 7595 is overspined stick with the 5575 and call it good. Now if you were shooting the Patriot DC, I would say stick with the larger shaft.

The Shakey Hunter does sometimes have a contact issue. I had a friend of mine that had that problem and he filed down the sides until the issue was gone.
:D