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wild bird
March 14th, 2005, 04:58 PM
I have bare shaft tuned out to 20 yards and I am still getting a nock high (about 1 inch) bare shaft. Left and right is perfect. No movement of the bisquit either up or down will remove the last remaining portion of the high nock. Also, has anyone ever noticed that no matter where you position the nock with the new generation WB's that you wind up with a nock high bare shaft. I'm thinking that when you have a low nock position that it contacts the stiffer black fibers and kicks the tail up giving a "false" nock high bare shaft.

Thanks for the input

Jacob Wukie
March 14th, 2005, 05:41 PM
What bow are you shooting? Single or dual cam? Tell me that and I might be able to help a little more, personally though, nock high isn't all that bad and I wouldn't worry about it. Good luck!

bfisher
March 16th, 2005, 12:20 AM
I haven't ried a WB yet but I've done a lot of bare shaft tuning, so this is just a theory. Shooting a release the arrow will flex in the vertical plane, thus rests that are spring loaded in one way or another. Spring pressure can be adjusted to give good flight results. The WB might act more like a fixed rest in this respect as the bottom bristles are pretty stiff. So you may get your indications from this aspect.

Another might be ugly nock travel if a single cam. If a two cam bow then cams out of sync could make things ugly.

Unclegus
March 16th, 2005, 02:47 AM
I've always been a firm believer in bare shaft tuning. Always got things to react like they are supposed to "According to the book"... Until I tried bare shafting my Barnsdale Classic X with the tristar wheels that has the top wheel bigger than the bottom one to facilitate level nock travel... I wasn't able to get the bare shaft to hit below the fletched shafts no matter what I did with the nocking point....always high, but the more away from center I got with the nocking point, the worse the porpoising in the arrow flight... Finally set the nocking point line shooting at 60 yd. This made me real uneasy, but the bow shoots great....

ratfart
March 20th, 2005, 08:17 AM
Isn't it supposed to be a littel nock high and the entry point just below where you were hitting at 10 yards? I thought that was expected at 20 yards due to the arc of the arrow flight (it's on it's downward path, so point weight is pulling front of arrow down, looks nock high in the target)???
I could be wrong, Lord knows I've been there before! :D

BogeyMan
March 20th, 2005, 08:21 AM
Isn't it supposed to be a littel nock high and the entry point just below where you were hitting at 10 yards? I thought that was expected at 20 yards due to the arc of the arrow flight (it's on it's downward path, so point weight is pulling front of arrow down, looks nock high in the target)???
I could be wrong, Lord knows I've been there before! :D


Exactly what I was thinking.

LA

silverback
March 20th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I was having a high nock tear problem. It ended up being the rest tension, which I guess you can't change on a WB.

Don't forget, when you put fletch on, it will weigh down the back of the arrow. If you want to stick with the Bisquit, you could try putting on fletch and a wrap to weigh down the back a little. And perhaps one of those lumenoks.

bucknasty
March 20th, 2005, 11:18 AM
bareshafting thru paper to acheive what purpose? when you put fletching on it will change your results. get your bareshafts impacting on the same horizontal plane as your fletched and you'll have your nocking pt. besides that you're determining if your spine is correct.

silverback
March 20th, 2005, 12:16 PM
When you shoot an arrow with a fletch, it will have more weight on the back. This will lower the nock a little through flight. How much do three of your fletch weigh? It is going to have at least some effect on the arrow flight.

My impression is that when you shoot with fletch, the fletch stabilizes the arrow better, and it is easier to get a bullet hole. So when you bare shaft test, it is more sensitive to left and right, but there will be some intrinsic error for up and down.

I'm just saying that if you want to stay with the WB and get your nock to fly lower, you can add weight to the back of the arrow.

I really think that if you want to solve the problem, you should try a different rest. I was having 1" -1.5" high nock tears, and it would not change regardless of how much I move the rest or nock point. Then I dropped the launcher tension to where it was barely holding the arrow up, and the problem was gone. Another bonus is that lowering the tension seems to make the bow more forgiving to shoot.

By the way, I tuned my bow yesterday. Bareshafts were tearing about 3 inches left no matter what I did. Fletched arrows were punching bullet holes at all distances and broadhead flight was right there with field points. As long as I have the end result, I don't care how I got there.

Jabwa
March 21st, 2005, 02:28 AM
Bucknasty:

Bareshaft paper testing is used to see if you have fletching contact.

bucknasty
March 21st, 2005, 07:25 AM
ok jabwa, i'll bite. how do you tell if you have fletching contact with no fletching? why not just use some powder? or are you just being funny without smilies.

ctarcher
March 21st, 2005, 09:55 AM
Here's one thought.

A consistent knock-high arrow could indicate a stiff arrow rest. Since you are using a whisker biscuit, with no springs to adjust, maybe you could trim off (remove) some of the whiskers from the bottom to make the biscuit "softer" and therefore less stiff.

Has anyone else tried this?

Unclegus
March 21st, 2005, 10:38 AM
Just a thought.... Sounds to me like maby one of the buss cables needs half a twist out or in.....

silverback
March 21st, 2005, 10:47 AM
Trimming the whiskers shorter would make them stiffer. Just like making an arrow shorter makes it stiffer.

Maybe cutting some whiskers completely out would work.

razors edge
March 21st, 2005, 11:04 AM
sounds more like a timing issue tha anything else,i'm shooting the biscuit with acc 3-71s with a martin fury with # 4 cams and have a perfect hole bare shaft.

ctarcher
March 21st, 2005, 11:24 AM
Silverback,

I'm not suggesting that the bristles are made shorter, which would make them stiffer, I'm saying that you remove some of them from the sides, therefore making the brush less stiff.

Example: In the extreme - if there were only two bristles holding up the arrow (not very practical), the rest would be way to soft. If there were 10,000 bristles holding up the arrow, it would be way to stiff.

Somewhere in between you could change the stiffness of the rest.

Gary

Jabwa
March 21st, 2005, 12:04 PM
Bucknasty:

You shoot an unfletched arrow through paper and a fletched arrow through paper. If the unfletched bullet holes and the fletched does not, then you most likely (I never say never with regard to paper tuning anymore) have fletch contact. Of course, you can use spray powder or lipstick also, but they are so messy! :D

silverback
March 21st, 2005, 12:23 PM
Gary, I misunderstood you. My apologies. I agree that your suggestion would help.

bucknasty
March 21st, 2005, 01:16 PM
jabwa, i respectfully believe that paper tuning and bare shaft tuning are 2 completely different entities and ne'er the 2 shall meet in my back yard. i also disagree with what you're saying about shooting bullet holes, but i will admit that i have, in the past shot a bare shaft thru paper, and when it was right my fletched arrows were very, very close. but, that was before i learned WHAT bare shaft tuning was for, and that paper tuning was a complete waste of time.

bboswell
March 21st, 2005, 01:30 PM
The biscuit is a hunting rest not a target rest so why try to apply target tuning techniques?

Get a fletched arrow to make a decent hole in paper and then go outside and tune with broadheads, when your b-heads and field tips hit the same place out to 40 or 50 yards your done and ready to hunt.

Unclegus
March 22nd, 2005, 09:22 AM
Bless you Bucknasty......That truth will set you free.....

bucknasty
March 22nd, 2005, 12:33 PM
well, unclegus, i may as well get a little more free while i'm at it. if your broadheads and fieldpoints are hitting the same spot, your bow is probably not tuned properly to either. like when it gets close to season and someone asks where my field points hit in relation to my broadheads, my honest reply is "I HAVE NO IDEA." when the blades come out the tips go up. its another thing that will not meet in my back yard. the blades get tuned. nocking pt gets set with bare shaft. rest and tiller gets set with supertuning, and they shoot like a dream.

Vt Archer
March 22nd, 2005, 02:11 PM
Try switching to a NAP Quicktune 360 work like a WB with the vane clealance problems. :smile:

http://www.newarchery.com/arrowrests/qt360.asp

Unclegus
March 23rd, 2005, 01:55 AM
Can I have an Amen? If so, then I'll pass the plate. I have to agree that paper shooting is a total waste of time...for me anyway...