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IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM
Thought this was interesting and hope i'm not breaking any rules by posting it.

Contradictions?


GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.
GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.
GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.
GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.
GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).
GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.
GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.
GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.
GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.
GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.
GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.
GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.
GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.
GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."
GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.
GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine."
DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine."
JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine.
RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine.
GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel.
GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob.
GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.
GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz.
1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek.
GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.)
GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite.
AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor.
EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.
EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor.
EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.
EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.
EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.
EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt.
1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time.
EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry.
RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace.
EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary).
GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary).
EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever.
EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images.
EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions.
MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath).
RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance.
EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.
MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.
EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many more examples.)
EX 20:14 God prohibits adultery.
HO 1:2 God instructs Hosea to "take a wife of harlotry."
EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.
EX 23:7 God prohibits the killing of the innocent.
NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3 God orders or approves the complete extermination of groups of people which include innocent women and/or children.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many other examples of the killing of innocents.)
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
NU 14:30 God breaks his promise.
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.
EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
2TH 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)
EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
IS 45:6-7, LA 3:8, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.
EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.
LE 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat.
MT 15:11, CN 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don't matter--they are only human injunctions.
LE 19:18, MT 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself.
1CO 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself.
LE 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes.
MT 26:65, MK 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus.
LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.
NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.
NU 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin.
HE 10:11 They never take away sin.
NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.
NU 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths).
MT 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil).
NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.
NU 33:41-42 After Aaron's death, the Israelites journeyed from Mt. Hor, to Zalmonah, to Punon, etc.
DT 10:6-7 It was from Mosera, to Gudgodah, to Jotbath.
DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.
DT 7:9-10 God destroys his enemies.
MT 5:39-44 Do not resist your enemies. Love them.
DT 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required.
EZ 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required.
DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
IS 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards.
DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.
DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.
DT 24:16, 2KI 14:6, 2CH 25:4, EZ 18:20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
RO 5:12, 19, 1CO 15:22 Death is passed to all men by the sin of Adam.
DT 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law.
RO 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law.
JS 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful.
JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.
JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah.
1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.
:

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 04:14 PM
I love Jesus.... and all his contradictions... makes him human.... :grin:

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 04:18 PM
and do you have a link to the site you copied this from ?

ZenBubba
April 21st, 2012, 04:19 PM
Oh Man, what rule would it be breaking? I can't keep up with all these crazy rules.

Soocom1
April 21st, 2012, 04:20 PM
Hey stic... Just a note:
Your current avatar of the Lion.........


It kinda looks like Kokopellii....

just saying.

IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 04:23 PM
I love Jesus.... and all his contradictions... makes him human.... :grin:It's just reading material...something different.

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 04:23 PM
Hey stic... Just a note:
Your current avatar of the Lion.........


It kinda looks like Kokopellii....

just saying.hahashj really??? Isn't that some fertility deity?kinda looks like alien?

MN_Chick
April 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM
Well, yeah. That is what happens whe stories are finally written down after a thousand years of oral tradition, then retold and translate countless times by people with political motives.

Soocom1
April 21st, 2012, 04:26 PM
hahashj really??? Isn't that some fertility deity?kinda looks like alien?

With a BIG member...

IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 04:44 PM
and do you have a link to the site you copied this from ?A friend of mine in another state emailed it to me in 4 parts.....just thought it was interesting to read.It gets better

MoBo Act 4:12
April 21st, 2012, 05:51 PM
Oh Man, what rule would it be breaking? I can't keep up with all these crazy rules.

Well, they even come up with new specific ones too.:wink:

cobowhntr
April 21st, 2012, 06:12 PM
This would been way more interesting if it had the corresponding bible study.

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 06:25 PM
Well, yeah. That is what happens whe stories are finally written down after a thousand years of oral tradition, then retold and translate countless times by people with political motives.Not sure about your thousands of years. But the Gospels were written

Matthew: 37 to 100 ad/ce

Mark: 40 to 73 ad/ce

Luke: 50 to 100 ad/ce

John: 65 to 100 ad/ce

DougKMN
April 21st, 2012, 06:26 PM
Well, yeah. That is what happens whe stories are finally written down after a thousand years of oral tradition, then retold and translate countless times by people with political motives.

The story of Jesus is just a regurgitated retelling of the story of Horus. They didn't even change some of the names.

MN_Chick
April 21st, 2012, 06:45 PM
Not sure about your thousands of years. But the Gospels were written

Matthew: 37 to 100 ad/ce

Mark: 40 to 73 ad/ce

Luke: 50 to 100 ad/ce

John: 65 to 100 ad/ce

The gospels, yes. But these contradictions include the OT, you know, the rest of the bible.

ZenBubba
April 21st, 2012, 06:54 PM
Well, they even come up with new specific ones too.:wink:

I got a lot done the last time I got banned, so there's an upside. ;)

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 07:31 PM
The gospels, yes. But these contradictions include the OT, you know, the rest of the bible.if you guys would spend just a little of the time you spend on here and check these so called contradictions out on the web you all might learn something.Just saying.

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 07:35 PM
if you guys would spend just a little of the time you spend on here and check these so called contradictions out on the web you all might learn something.Just saying.

:grin:.... heck I might learn somethin.... :grin:

IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 07:40 PM
Hijacking getting really bad here latly.

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 07:53 PM
I got a lot done the last time I got banned, so there's an upside. ;)I got a lot of work done around the also.

sticshooter
April 21st, 2012, 07:54 PM
:grin:.... heck I might learn somethin.... :grin:You know plenty bro.

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 07:59 PM
Hijacking getting really bad here latly.

In my case is a disability... :grin:

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 08:01 PM
You know plenty bro.

Thank you... I'll try to not let it go to my head.... :grin:

3dn4jc
April 21st, 2012, 09:21 PM
1346081

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 09:24 PM
1346081Hehe..... Long day.... :grin:

athomPT
April 21st, 2012, 09:45 PM
You wasted all that time posting something you KNEW proved you are WITHOUT A DOUBT right! Man you could have been shooting, preparing arrows or blank baling, why waste so much time trying to convince someone (ie. "you") what you "know" to be correct.....LOL!

IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 09:55 PM
You wasted all that time posting something you KNEW proved you are WITHOUT A DOUBT right! Man you could have been shooting, preparing arrows or blank baling, why waste so much time trying to convince someone (ie. "you") what you "know" to be correct.....LOL!I don't think 5 minutes of my time is going to kill me...plus..i was sitting here rigging up a new trot-line for catfish.

DougKMN
April 21st, 2012, 09:56 PM
You wasted all that time posting something you KNEW proved you are WITHOUT A DOUBT right! Man you could have been shooting, preparing arrows or blank baling, why waste so much time trying to convince someone (ie. "you") what you "know" to be correct.....LOL!

Just think how much time you could have been spending shooting, preparing arrows, etc if you didn't waste so much time on your knees....

MN_Chick
April 21st, 2012, 10:24 PM
if you guys would spend just a little of the time you spend on here and check these so called contradictions out on the web you all might learn something.Just saying.

You assume that I haven't already. I worked off of www.theskepticsannotatedbible. com I think that's the right address. This was way back, around the time that I got ordained. The site is a little loose with their faults, so you do have to look into them. They cover historical contradictions, such as different people at the tomb, differences in the accounts of armies during wars, that sort of thing. But they also get into social injustice, god's dislike of women, scientific errors. It's all kinds of fun. It did cover a lot of real errors, though. That alone should discount a literal interpretation of the bible.

IChim2
April 21st, 2012, 10:43 PM
1SA 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines.
1SA 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul.
1SA 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines.
1SA 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed.
1SA 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?).
1SA 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?).
1SA 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total.
1CH 2:13-15 He had seven total.
1SA 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter's encounter with Goliath.
1SA 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David's identity.
1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
1SA 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword.
1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath.
2SA 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words "the brother of" before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.)
1SA 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread.
MK 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time.
1SA 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord.
1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.
2SA 6:23 Michal was childless.
2SA 21:8 (KJV) She had five sons.
2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census.
2SA 24:9 The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000.
1CH 21:5 The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000.
2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.
2SA 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property.
1CH 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold.
1KI 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet ....
1KI 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God's explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death).
1KI 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2CH 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him.
MT 12:42, LK 11:31 Jesus says: "... now one greater than Solomon is here."
1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
1KI 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors.
2CH 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors.
1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.
1KI 7:26 Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths" (1 bath = about 8 gallons).
2CH 4:5 It held 3000 "baths."
1KI 8:12, 2CH 6:1, PS 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness.
1TI 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light.
1KI 8:13, AC 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God.
AC 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men.
1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
1KI 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places.
2CH 14:2-3 He did remove them.
1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.
1KI 16:23 Omri became king in the thirty-first year of Asa's reign and he reigned for a total of twelve years.
1KI 16:28-29 Omri died, and his son Ahab became king in the thirty- eighth year of Asa's reign. (Note: Thirty-one through thirty-eight equals a reign of seven or eight years.)
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, 2TH 2:11 God himself causes a lying spirit.
PR 12:22 God abhors lying lips and delights in honesty.
1KI 22:42-43 Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places.
2CH 17:5-6 He did remove them.
2KI 2:11 Elijah went up to heaven.
JN 3:13 Only the Son of Man (Jesus) has ever ascended to heaven.
2CO 12:2-4 An unnamed man, known to Paul, went up to heaven and came back.
HE 11:5 Enoch was translated to heaven.
2KI 4:32-37 A dead child is raised (well before the time of Jesus).
MT 9:18-25, JN 11:38-44 Two dead persons are raised (by Jesus himself).
AC 26:23 Jesus was the first to rise from the dead.
2KI 8:25-26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign.
2CH 22:2 He was 42 when he began his reign.
[Note: Some translations use "twenty-two" here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong's H705 and H8147, "forty" and "two," respectively.]
2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there.
2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death.
2KI 16:5 The King of Syria and the son of the King of Israel did not conquer Ahaz.
2CH 28:5-6 They did conquer Ahaz.
2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
2CH 36:9 He was eight.
(Note: This discrepancy has been "corrected" in some versions.)
2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) reigned three months.
2CH 36:9 He reigned three months and ten days.
2KI 24:17 Jehoiachin (Jehoaikim) was succeeded by his uncle.
2CH 36:10 He was succeeded by his brother.
1CH 3:11-13 The lineage is: Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham.
MT 1:8-9 It is: Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, etc.
1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 There is no injustice or partiality with the Lord.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on (and hardens the hearts of) whom he pleases.
ER 2:3-64 (Gives the whole congregation as 42,360 while the actual sum of the numbers is about 30,000.)
JB 2:3-6, 21:7-13, 2TI 3:12 The godly are persecuted and chastised but the wicked grow old, wealthy, and powerful, unchastised by God.
PS 55:23, 92:12-14, PR 10:2-3, 27-31, 12:2, 21 The lives of the wicked are cut short. The righteous flourish and obtain favor from the Lord.
PS 10:1 God cannot be found in time of need. He is "far off."
PS 145:18 God is near to all who call upon him in truth.
PS 22:1-2 God sometimes forsakes his children. He does not answer.
PS 46:1 God is a refuge, a strength, a very present help.
PS 30:5, JE 3:12, MI 7:18 God's anger does not last forever.
JE 17:4, MT 25:46 It does last forever. (He has provided for eternal punishment.)
PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance.
PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles.
PS 78:69, EC 1:4, 3:14 The earth was established forever.
PS 102:25-26, MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33, HE 1:10-11, 2PE 3:10 The earth will someday perish.
PR 3:13, 4:7, 19:8, JA 1:5 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom.
LK 2:40, 52 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God.
1CO 1:19-25, 3:18-20 Wisdom is foolishness.
PR 12:2, RO 8:28 A good man obtains favor from the Lord.
2TI 3:12, HE 12:6 The godly will be persecuted.
PR 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way.
MT 6:25-34 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
PR 14:15-18 The simple believe everything and acquire folly; the prudent look where they are going and are crowned with knowledge.
MT 18:3, LK 18:17 You must believe as little children do.
1CO 1:20, 27 God has made the wisdom of the world foolish so as to shame the wise.
PR 16:4 God made the wicked for the "day of evil."
MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 God and Jesus hide some things from some people.
JN 6:65 No one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by God.
RO 8:28-30 Some are predestined to be called to God, believe in Jesus, and be justified.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on, and hardens the hearts of, whom he pleases.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked so as to be able to condemn them.
1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 [Yet] God wants all to be saved.
PR 8:13, 16:6 It is the fear of God that keeps men from evil.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear.
1JN 5:2, 2JN 1:6 Those who love God keep his commandments.
PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too.
PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise.
PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word of God.
JE 20:7, EZ 14:9, 2TH 2:11-12 God himself deceives people.
(Note: Some versions translate deceive as "persuade." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)
IS 3:13 God stands to judge.
JL 3:12 He sits to judge.
IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone.
JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation.
IS 53:9 Usually taken to be a prophecy re: Jesus, mentions burial with others.
MT 27:58-60, MK 15:45-46, LK 23:52-53, JN 19:38-42 Jesus was buried by himself.
JE 12:13 Some sow wheat but reap thorns.
MI 6:15 Some sow but won't reap anything.
MT 25:26, LK 19:22 Some reap without sowing.
2CO 9:6, GA 6:7 A man reaps what he sows.
JE 32:18 God shows love to thousands, but brings punishment for the sins of their fathers to many children.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.
JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace.
JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih's sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.
EZ 20:25-26 The law was not good. The sacrifice of children was for the purpose of horrifying the people so that they would know that God is Lord.
RO 7:12, 1TI 1:8 The law is good.
EZ 26:15-21 God says that Tyre will be destroyed and will never be found again.
(Nebudchanezzar failed to capture or destroy Tyre. It is still inhabited.)
DN 5:1 (Gives the title of "king" to Belshazzar although Belshazzar was actually the "viceroy.")
DN 5:2 (Says that Nebuchadnezzar was the father of Belshazzar, but actually, Nebonidus was the father of Belshazzar.) (Note: Some versions attempt to correct this error by making the verse say that Nebuchadnezzar was the grandfather of Belshazzar.)
ZE 11:12-13 Mentions "thirty pieces" and could possibly be thought to be connected with the Potter's Field prophesy referred to in Matthew.
MT 27:9 Jeremiah is given as the source of the prophesy regarding the purchase of the Potter's Field. (Note: There is no such prophesy in Jeremiah.)
MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David's son, Solomon.
LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David's son, Nathan.
(Note: Some apologists assert that Luke traces the lineage through Mary. That this is untrue is obvious from the context since Luke and Matthew both clearly state that Joseph was Jesus' father.)
MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.
MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.
LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three.
MT 1:18-21 The Annunciation occurred after Mary had conceived Jesus.
LK 1:26-31 It occurred before conception.
MT 1:20 The angel spoke to Joseph.
LK 1:28 The angel spoke to Mary.
MT 1:20-23, LK 1:26-33 An angel announces to Joseph and/or Mary that the child (Jesus) will be "great," the "son of the Most High," etc., and ....
MT 3:13-17, MK 1:9-11 The baptism of Jesus is accompanied by the most extraordinary happenings, yet ....
MK 3:21 Jesus' own relatives (or friends) attempt to constrain him, thinking that he might be out of his mind, and ....
MK 6:4-6 Jesus says that a prophet is without honor in his own house (which certainly should not have been the case considering the Annunciation and the Baptism).
MT 1:23 He will be called Emmanuel (or Immanuel).
MT 1:25 Instead, he was called Jesus.
MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.
MT 2:23 "And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene.'" (This prophecy is not found in the OT and while Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth", he is seldom referred to as "Jesus the Nazarene.")
MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.
MT 3:12, 13:42 Hell is a furnace of fire (and must therefore be light).
MT 8:12, 22:13, 25:30 Hell is an "outer darkness" (and therefore dark).
MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending.
JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending.
MT 3:17 The heavenly voice addressed the crowd: "This is my beloved Son."
MK 1:11, LK 3:22 The voice addressed Jesus: "You are my beloved Son...."
MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil.
JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana

DougKMN
April 21st, 2012, 10:55 PM
You assume that I haven't already. I worked off of www.theskepticsannotatedbible. com (http://www.theskepticsannotatedbible. com) I think that's the right address. This was way back, around the time that I got ordained. The site is a little loose with their faults, so you do have to look into them. They cover historical contradictions, such as different people at the tomb, differences in the accounts of armies during wars, that sort of thing. But they also get into social injustice, god's dislike of women, scientific errors. It's all kinds of fun. It did cover a lot of real errors, though. That alone should discount a literal interpretation of the bible.

I'm kind of surprised at the number of atheists out there who become atheist after really studying the bible and Religion...

MN_Chick
April 21st, 2012, 11:08 PM
I'm kind of surprised at the number of atheists out there who become atheist after really studying the bible and Religion...

There are lots of us out in the world. It's odd though, some study and their belief is reinforced. Some study and their belief fades. My sunday school teacher was often very frustrated with me, because I didn't blindly accept their lesons from scripture without question. But I think an unquestioned belief is worthless.

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 11:33 PM
Just think how much time you could have been spending shooting, preparing arrows, etc if you didn't waste so much time on your knees....Its not a waste of time at all.... and the rewards are manifold... :grin: You should look into it sometime... :thumbs_up

DougKMN
April 21st, 2012, 11:40 PM
Its not a waste of time at all.... and the rewards are manifold... :grin: You should look into it sometime... :thumbs_up

No thanks, I'm pretty sure it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. You go ahead though if that floats your boat.

ZenBubba
April 21st, 2012, 11:42 PM
I read this in the comments section of an article. I've been saying the same thing but I like the way this guy expresses it.

"James Armato - What is ironic is that atheists need the theistic worldview to proclaim their atheism. Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God because an atheist, ipso facto, has to reject the existence of God. Very ironic that their identity is locked into God - which they deny - and is one reason why atheists are often so bitter about God and Christians - they cannot escape.

And of course, morality in atheism is a delusion: time + matter + chance = no morality, no intrinsic value. If atheism is true, then the universe is amoral. If the universe is amoral, then how can atheists invoke a moral judgment about anything? If they do so, they are borrowing from a moralistic Judaeo-Christian worldview, because naturalism has no morality. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian!"

rattus58
April 21st, 2012, 11:56 PM
No thanks, I'm pretty sure it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. You go ahead though if that floats your boat.Absolutely.... never know when there'll be another 40 days of rain... what with climate change and all... :grin:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 08:24 AM
I read this in the comments section of an article. I've been saying the same thing but I like the way this guy expresses it.

"James Armato - What is ironic is that atheists need the theistic worldview to proclaim their atheism. Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God because an atheist, ipso facto, has to reject the existence of God. Very ironic that their identity is locked into God - which they deny - and is one reason why atheists are often so bitter about God and Christians - they cannot escape.

And of course, morality in atheism is a delusion: time + matter + chance = no morality, no intrinsic value. If atheism is true, then the universe is amoral. If the universe is amoral, then how can atheists invoke a moral judgment about anything? If they do so, they are borrowing from a moralistic Judaeo-Christian worldview, because naturalism has no morality. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian!"Well That's why they are always harping about God in here.I would bet they start more thread about God then Christians do LOL. Start a thread about something and God gets dragged into it So I would agree with this"Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God ".

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:21 AM
Well That's why they are always harping about God in here.I would bet they start more thread about God then Christians do LOL. Start a thread about something and God gets dragged into it So I would agree with this"Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God ".I doubt that anyone on here is bitter towards christians...and atheists get brought up plenty in threads on here.What i find funny is how many atheists can discuss both sides...the bible and evolution....but some christians won't venture past the bible.

bayeux
April 22nd, 2012, 10:45 AM
I read this in the comments section of an article. I've been saying the same thing but I like the way this guy expresses it.

"James Armato - What is ironic is that atheists need the theistic worldview to proclaim their atheism. Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God because an atheist, ipso facto, has to reject the existence of God. Very ironic that their identity is locked into God - which they deny - and is one reason why atheists are often so bitter about God and Christians - they cannot escape.

And of course, morality in atheism is a delusion: time + matter + chance = no morality, no intrinsic value. If atheism is true, then the universe is amoral. If the universe is amoral, then how can atheists invoke a moral judgment about anything? If they do so, they are borrowing from a moralistic Judaeo-Christian worldview, because naturalism has no morality. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian!"

Everything about that post is wrong, the problem is staring back at them if they look in a mirror, Christians that is who feel the need to judge and proclaim that the Atheist will be damned to hell, and have no place in heaven. It's the Christians who seem to be infuriated by the fact they don't believe, who is the better person, the Christian who judges the none believer, Muslims do the same, or the Atheist who doesn't believe in God but gets labelled for not doing so.:wink:

ZenBubba
April 22nd, 2012, 10:52 AM
Everything about that post is wrong, the problem is staring back at them if they look in a mirror, Christians that is who feel the need to judge and proclaim that the Atheist will be damned to hell, and have no place in heaven. It's the Christians who seem to be infuriated by the fact they don't believe, who is the better person, the Christian who judges the none believer, Muslims do the same, or the Atheist who doesn't believe in God but gets labelled for not doing so.:wink:

I see mostly atheists making harsh judgements about Christians. Most of the scorn and ridicule comes from the atheists. It's mostly the atheists pushing their beliefs onto Christians rather than the opposite. Read the posts.

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 11:03 AM
I read this in the comments section of an article. I've been saying the same thing but I like the way this guy expresses it.

"James Armato - What is ironic is that atheists need the theistic worldview to proclaim their atheism. Their mocking of God demonstrates how they cannot escape God because an atheist, ipso facto, has to reject the existence of God. Very ironic that their identity is locked into God - which they deny - and is one reason why atheists are often so bitter about God and Christians - they cannot escape.

And of course, morality in atheism is a delusion: time + matter + chance = no morality, no intrinsic value. If atheism is true, then the universe is amoral. If the universe is amoral, then how can atheists invoke a moral judgment about anything? If they do so, they are borrowing from a moralistic Judaeo-Christian worldview, because naturalism has no morality. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian!"

I had no idea you were such a gymnast. The amount of twisting you just did is phenomenal, I am actually somewhat impressed. Any logic teacher would love to use thatpost as an example of what happens when. You don't understand logic.

First, you assume that atheism is as important to us as religion is to you. It's not. If religion disappeared, nothing about me would change. A lot would change about you.

Second, your entire paragraph about morality is just plain funny. Yes, it's true that nature is amoral. The universe IS amoral. Some people are amoral. But humans, having the ability to reason (most of us anyway) have the ability to discern our own morality, just as those who created your religion did. Morality does not only come from religion. Morality comes from living in a group, certain rules must be agreed upon for the group to survive. Morality can also come from philosophy there are many different philosophies or morality and ethics that have nothing to do with religion. One just needs to be willing to actually see it. Some people are so afraid of their beliefs being shattered that they must keep blinders on, so as not to question too closely. Some, also, are simply not able to think on their own, so need their morality laid out in a book for them.

Most of us, however, are able to reason through what is good and bad, or right and wrong.

bayeux
April 22nd, 2012, 11:04 AM
I see mostly atheists making harsh judgements about Christians. Most of the scorn and ridicule comes from the atheists. It's mostly the atheists pushing their beliefs onto Christians rather than the opposite. Read the posts.

i agree and disagree, history will put religion at the forefront of judgement, even practicing the wrong type of religion, There was a documentary shown here where English kids had to live with Amish people, kid said i don't believe in God, Amish said you're going to hell, one person i know but the kid didn't reply you're a bunch of idiots. I have never heard of Atheists knocking on doors saying don't believe in God but have been on the receiving end of bible bashing.

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 11:06 AM
I doubt that anyone on here is bitter towards christians...and atheists get brought up plenty in threads on here.What i find funny is how many atheists can discuss both sides...the bible and evolution....but some christians won't venture past the bible.

I've yet to see a thorough discussion of the bible by atheist on this forum. I see lots of ridicule & passive aggressive swipes yet no actual discussion. This very thread is an example. lets post lots of supposed contradictions with no actual study to go along with it.
Concerning science I know christians that are scientists, history is replete with them & on this forum it's quite plain that christians are eager to discuss science. I see the atheist assertions that we can't mix the two, which is quite false, that shuts the discussion down.
Atheist are the ones that appear unable to discuss the bible and science as they are unable to discuss the bible.

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 11:08 AM
I have never heard of Atheists knocking on doors saying don't believe in God but have been on the receiving end of bible bashing.

In this country they use billboards, the court system & the media; they are on the giving end of bible bashing, not receiving.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 11:21 AM
I've yet to see a thorough discussion of the bible by atheist on this forum. I see lots of ridicule & passive aggressive swipes yet no actual discussion. This very thread is an example. lets post lots of supposed contradictions with no actual study to go along with it.
Concerning science I know christians that are scientists, history is replete with them & on this forum it's quite plain that christians are eager to discuss science. I see the atheist assertions that we can't mix the two, which is quite false, that shuts the discussion down.
Atheist are the ones that appear unable to discuss the bible and science as they are unable to discuss the bible.I just posted the contradictions cause i like to read what others have to say...on both sides..doesn't mean i believe it...just find it interesting.Same goes for christian/atheist threads...i just mostly read what others have to say,but know that in the end..it's ends in grid lock.Untill theres proof on either side..it will always be up for discussion.

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 11:29 AM
What I really find funny is that the christians haven't even looked at it. Stic told me my timeline is off because of the dates the gospels were written, even though this list is mostly OT. Then he told me to study it so I could learn. Cobow says he'd like to see a study on it.

Yet not one christian has looked at it enough to say "nope, this isn't correct... and here is why". Is it arrogance or fear?

ZenBubba
April 22nd, 2012, 11:31 AM
i agree and disagree, history will put religion at the forefront of judgement, even practicing the wrong type of religion, There was a documentary shown here where English kids had to live with Amish people, kid said i don't believe in God, Amish said you're going to hell, one person i know but the kid didn't reply you're a bunch of idiots. I have never heard of Atheists knocking on doors saying don't believe in God but have been on the receiving end of bible bashing.

Maybe the internet brings it out in all people. I don't know any horrible atheists or Christians in real life. I encounter horrible people but I don't stick around to find out their theological beliefs.

I think I've had people knock on my door twice in the last 20 years, I guess they were Jehovah Witnesses.

I really kind of feel bad for how angry some people are about religion. I hope they can find peace.

bayeux
April 22nd, 2012, 11:38 AM
In this country they use billboards, the court system & the media; they are on the giving end of bible bashing, not receiving.

I have seen interviews with American Atheists who are marginalized and can't find work due to those who are Christians with jobs on offer, we have a phrase over here SIX OF ONE HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER.

bayeux
April 22nd, 2012, 11:45 AM
Maybe the internet brings it out in all people. I don't know any horrible atheists or Christians in real life. I encounter horrible people but I don't stick around to find out their theological beliefs.

I think I've had people knock on my door twice in the last 20 years, I guess they were Jehovah Witnesses.

I really kind of feel bad for how angry some people are about religion. I hope they can find peace.

I would agree with you on this,here on this PRM i would say it's all hot air, trying to get the worst and best out of folk. i bet if most of us met on the street we would all find out what great lads n lasses we all are. I have no problem if the truth be told, it's just a little fun t6o see what folk can come up with. I work with a guy from Bangalore in India, he's a Christian who took the name Erik Imanuelle as he was taken in by Christians when he was a kid, we get on like a house on fire.

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 11:45 AM
I doubt that anyone on here is bitter towards christians...and atheists get brought up plenty in threads on here.What i find funny is how many atheists can discuss both sides...the bible and evolution....but some christians won't venture past the bible.well open your eyes.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 11:50 AM
What I really find funny is that the christians haven't even looked at it. Stic told me my timeline is off because of the dates the gospels were written, even though this list is mostly OT. Then he told me to study it so I could learn. Cobow says he'd like to see a study on it.

Yet not one christian has looked at it enough to say "nope, this isn't correct... and here is why". Is it arrogance or fear? Why is it either? One of the problems I see here is that when you speak of arrogance, it is clearly not the Christians I read who are arrogant. If I could read, I'd be happy to give you my interpretations of the anything in the Bible, BUT they would be MY interpretations... You mentioned that you were ordained... Why? What exactly do you see the Bible as?

I admit that I'm probably a poor example of a Christian, but it isn't reading the Bible that made me one, nor do I take stuff seriously from the Bible... How could you... Slavery for example... when the Bible was written, there were all sorts of slave conditions... one as property, one as debt service, one as booty... and probably others... but today the practice has changed, we now have economic enslavement by people with impure intentions.

I mean I've heard people speak of good versus evil.... and I see all these depictions of starving children, slavery, pictures of the depths of misery in the human condition... and everyone trying to blame it on God, as if it was his fault... where in reality, it is the Atheist who says God isn't doing the job, so doesn't exist, yet they do nothing to alleviate the condition... can you say that of Christians? NO... generally you cannot... and why not.. because of the words of Christ guides us.. and you ask for proof... What a question... it's all around you.... :grin:

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 11:51 AM
What I really find funny is that the christians haven't even looked at it. Stic told me my timeline is off because of the dates the gospels were written, even though this list is mostly OT. Then he told me to study it so I could learn. Cobow says he'd like to see a study on it.

Yet not one christian has looked at it enough to say "nope, this isn't correct... and here is why". Is it arrogance or fear?It's because most christians don't want to take a chance on interupting their beliefs.I guess i'm an atheist..but will read/listen to both sides with an open mind.But christians seldom want to hear or read something that just might make them ? the bible or their beliefs.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 11:54 AM
It's because most christians don't want to take a chance on interupting their beliefs.I guess i'm an atheist..but will read/listen to both sides with an open mind.But christians seldom want to hear or read something that just might make them ? the bible or their beliefs.

Interupting their beliefs??? Have you read the books by Ayn Rand?

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 11:59 AM
Interupting their beliefs??? Have you read the books by Ayn Rand?Nope..never heard of her.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
Nope..never heard of her.

Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead... Books that are fiction, but that made me Republican/Conservative. The Bible wasn't written by God, so you take from it its message and use it to guide your life.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 12:10 PM
Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead... Books that are fiction, but that made me Republican/Conservative. The Bible wasn't written by God, so you take from it its message and use it to guide your life.You ever read the Thomas Jefferson Bible..?..I know the bible wasn't written by God.Do you know when the bible was first published and who the first auther was.?I live and guide my own life the way i see fit thats works best for me/us...really don't need anyone or anything to guide me.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 12:19 PM
You ever read the Thomas Jefferson Bible..?..I know the bible wasn't written by God.Do you know when the bible was first published and who the first auther was.?I live and guide my own life the way i see fit thats works best for me/us...really don't need anyone or anything to guide me.Can't say that I have and as for the first Bible, I don't know of it either... there keeps seeming to be more stuff discovered all the time... new scrolls here and there... some a thousand years before Christ... and published... what does that mean exactly?

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 12:25 PM
Why is it either? One of the problems I see here is that when you speak of arrogance, it is clearly not the Christians I read who are arrogant. If I could read, I'd be happy to give you my interpretations of the anything in the Bible, BUT they would be MY interpretations... You mentioned that you were ordained... Why? What exactly do you see the Bible as?

I admit that I'm probably a poor example of a Christian, but it isn't reading the Bible that made me one, nor do I take stuff seriously from the Bible... How could you... Slavery for example... when the Bible was written, there were all sorts of slave conditions... one as property, one as debt service, one as booty... and probably others... but today the practice has changed, we now have economic enslavement by people with impure intentions.

I mean I've heard people speak of good versus evil.... and I see all these depictions of starving children, slavery, pictures of the depths of misery in the human condition... and everyone trying to blame it on God, as if it was his fault... where in reality, it is the Atheist who says God isn't doing the job, so doesn't exist, yet they do nothing to alleviate the condition... can you say that of Christians? NO... generally you cannot... and why not.. because of the words of Christ guides us.. and you ask for proof... What a question... it's all around you.... :grin:

Sometimes your wisdom suprises me. I really respect that you acknowledge your interpretation of it as your own. But you weren't one who was telling us to read it for ourselves, that we could learn something from it- without having read it yourself. And that's the key. They automatically assume that it's wrong and that we are the ones who need to study it.. without even looking. That's the part that implies arogance or fear.

I got ordained for fun- and it did not require belief in the bible. It required a vow to do what I believe is right, and to respect and protect religious freedom. Both of those things I do anyway. I see the bible (OT) as a book describing the relationship between an ancient culture and thier god. The NT? I don't have as much respect for that.. it's basically a cruel joke.

Honestly, I think Jesus (if he were real) would be more inclined to have conversations with you, and ridicule some of the more "devout" on this site. And yes, I can say that there are MANY christians who are as indifferent to the suffering of others, as well as many atheists. There are also many christians, atheists, hindus, buddhists, muslims, wiccans, satanists, etc who ARE actively trying to make the world a better place. There are self-proclaimed christians who would disown their own children simply for being gay. Tell me Jesus would be ok with that? And I suspect there are a few who would be a part of the mobs who hunt down solitary people who "don't fit in", with the mindset that they are proactively protecting their families and life styles. In other words, there are a few christians on this forum who really, REALLY don't follow what Jesus stood for (according to the bible). And yet, they are usually the ones telling us that atheists are so horrible.

And you can't tell me that they aren't really christians because htey don't act like Jesus 100% of the time. If that were the definition, then there would be exactyl zero christians in the world.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 12:48 PM
Sometimes your wisdom suprises me. I really respect that you acknowledge your interpretation of it as your own. But you weren't one who was telling us to read it for ourselves, that we could learn something from it- without having read it yourself. And that's the key. They automatically assume that it's wrong and that we are the ones who need to study it.. without even looking. That's the part that implies arogance or fear.

I got ordained for fun- and it did not require belief in the bible. It required a vow to do what I believe is right, and to respect and protect religious freedom. Both of those things I do anyway. I see the bible (OT) as a book describing the relationship between an ancient culture and thier god. The NT? I don't have as much respect for that.. it's basically a cruel joke.

Honestly, I think Jesus (if he were real) would be more inclined to have conversations with you, and ridicule some of the more "devout" on this site. And yes, I can say that there are MANY christians who are as indifferent to the suffering of others, as well as many atheists. There are also many christians, atheists, hindus, buddhists, muslims, wiccans, satanists, etc who ARE actively trying to make the world a better place. There are self-proclaimed christians who would disown their own children simply for being gay. Tell me Jesus would be ok with that? And I suspect there are a few who would be a part of the mobs who hunt down solitary people who "don't fit in", with the mindset that they are proactively protecting their families and life styles. In other words, there are a few christians on this forum who really, REALLY don't follow what Jesus stood for (according to the bible). And yet, they are usually the ones telling us that atheists are so horrible.

And you can't tell me that they aren't really christians because htey don't act like Jesus 100% of the time. If that were the definition, then there would be exactyl zero christians in the world.

Well I'm not trying to tell you that folks aren't Christians because they don't act like Jesus 100% of the time, because acting like Jesus would be just an act, wouldn't it. You have to live your life as Jesus... but driving to town on any given monday, I probably break 50 laws somehow... and the same is true of my behavior every day as a Christian. My experiences are what have led me to Christ... and I'm fulfilled... maybe not every day, but enough days of the week to know that God is real. I believe in Jesus Christ, mostly because I believe in God.

God saved me from personal destruction... I know... and my missuse says that I just shifted focus... :grin:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 12:52 PM
Well I'm not trying to tell you that folks aren't Christians because they don't act like Jesus 100% of the time, because acting like Jesus would be just an act, wouldn't it. You have to live your life as Jesus... but driving to town on any given monday, I probably break 50 laws somehow... and the same is true of my behavior every day as a Christian. My experiences are what have led me to Christ... and I'm fulfilled... maybe not every day, but enough days of the week to know that God is real. I believe in Jesus Christ, mostly because I believe in God.

God saved me from personal destruction... I know... and my missuse says that I just shifted focus... :grin:
ya keep getting better and better ratman!

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 01:03 PM
Well I'm not trying to tell you that folks aren't Christians because they don't act like Jesus 100% of the time, because acting like Jesus would be just an act, wouldn't it. You have to live your life as Jesus... but driving to town on any given monday, I probably break 50 laws somehow... and the same is true of my behavior every day as a Christian. My experiences are what have led me to Christ... and I'm fulfilled... maybe not every day, but enough days of the week to know that God is real. I believe in Jesus Christ, mostly because I believe in God.

God saved me from personal destruction... I know... and my missuse says that I just shifted focus... :grin:I've got to ask.Did God save you from personal distruction...or did you take it up on your self to do so.Who made the first move?I mean did he just appear one day and say..my Son..you are heading down the wrong road and i'm going to change your direction...or did you decide that you needed to change your life style for the better and seeked the bible/God for guidance because you couldn't do it on your own will power.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 01:10 PM
I've got to ask.Did God save you from personal distruction...or did you take it up on your self to do so.Who made the first move?I mean did he just appear one day and say..my Son..you are heading down the wrong road and i'm going to change your direction...or did you decide that you needed to change your life style for the better and seeked the bible/God for guidance because you couldn't do it on your own will power.

Post of the day!

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 01:27 PM
I've got to ask.Did God save you from personal distruction...or did you take it up on your self to do so.Who made the first move?I mean did he just appear one day and say..my Son..you are heading down the wrong road and i'm going to change your direction...or did you decide that you needed to change your life style for the better and seeked the bible/God for guidance because you couldn't do it on your own will power.

Great Question. When you have an epiphany, and I only recently learnt that it in itself is a religious term... :grin: I always though of it as "seeing the light"... and now I know... :grin: You get "in-sight". So the first move.... It came to me. Was that me.... uncharacteristically... or was it Divine... :grin: There wasn't anything going on in my life that would have led to reflection at the moment I received it. But that was only the beginning....

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 01:30 PM
Great Question. When you have an epiphany, and I only recently learnt that it in itself is a religious term... :grin: I always though of it as "seeing the light"... and now I know... :grin: You get "in-sight". So the first move.... It came to me. Was that me.... uncharacteristically... or was it Divine... :grin: There wasn't anything going on in my life that would have led to reflection at the moment I received it. But that was only the beginning....

Kewl dude... Wait....... what do say????

ZenBubba
April 22nd, 2012, 01:36 PM
I think for most people it's personal, transcendent and transformational. People that have experienced it will understand but it's hard for someone that hasn't.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 01:41 PM
I think for most people it's personal, transcendent and transformational. People that have experienced it will understand but it's hard for someone that hasn't.Kinda like a funeral....some go to give thier last respects and good-bye's.....but isn't it really just a social gathering for people to chit chat.

ZenBubba
April 22nd, 2012, 01:44 PM
Kinda like a funeral....some go to give thier last respects and good-bye's.....but isn't it really just a social gathering for people to chit chat.

Personal salvation is a chance to chit chat?

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 01:48 PM
Personal salvation is a chance to chit chat?Church is more less a place for social gethering for most to seperate themselves from the ordanary people that don't go.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 02:00 PM
Church is more less a place for social gethering for most to seperate themselves from the ordanary people that don't go.So is the gun club, archery club, bridge, poker, and Church probably is a place where others of like mind, can gather... as are NASP programs for Churches. What are saying is wrong with that? Isn't a forum a similar situation...?

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 02:05 PM
So is the gun club, archery club, bridge, poker, and Church probably is a place where others of like mind, can gather... as are NASP programs for Churches. What are saying is wrong with that? Isn't a forum a similar situation...?It sure is.I perfere the local beach....with lots of string bikini's.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 02:08 PM
It sure is.I perfere the local beach....with lots of string bikini's.

Hahahahaha.... so do Christians... The beach anyway.... yours got benefits... looks like... :grin:

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 02:13 PM
It sure is.I perfere the local beach....with lots of string bikini's.

God created sex and BEUTIFUL women!

Whats so wrong with that? (personally me thinks the ol' man is as much a perv as I am.... ) " ...let us create him in OUR image....." Gen. 1:26.......just sayin.....

BigHarry
April 22nd, 2012, 02:16 PM
Who created the ugly ones?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 02:18 PM
Who created the ugly ones?

Hahahahaha..... probably mcDonalds.... :grin:.... and Hagen Daaz... There aren't too many "ugly" women that I've seen in my lifetime.... just diamonds and saphires... rubies and jade.

BigHarry
April 22nd, 2012, 02:28 PM
I've seen pretty girls who were overweight. Answer the question.

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 02:29 PM
I've seen pretty girls who were overweight. Answer the question.

God did....


But the situation.. well...mmmmm how shall I say this delecatly....


MOSTLY THIER OWN **&% fault! There are a few who were not blessed with looks... But what can I say.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 02:30 PM
I've seen pretty girls who were overweight. Answer the question.

who are you askin?

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 02:32 PM
God did....


But the situation.. well...mmmmm how shall I say this delecatly....


MOSTLY THIER OWN **&% fault! There are a few who were not blessed with looks... But what can I say.


Yikes!!! Judge much?

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 02:36 PM
Yikes!!! Judge much?

Actually yes.. ALOT!

Jugement:
NOUN [ 13th century. < Old French jugement < jugier "to judge" < Latin judicare (see judicature) ]


1: legal verdict: the decision arrived at and pronounced by a court of law
2. obligation resulting from verdict: an obligation, e.g. a debt, that arises as a result of a court's verdict, or a document setting out an obligation of this kind
3. decision of judge: the decision reached by one or more judges in a contest
"The judgment of the panel must be regarded as final."
4. decision on disputed matter: an opinion formed or a decision reached in the case of a disputed, controversial, or doubtful matter
5. discernment or good sense: the ability to form sound opinions and make sensible decisions or reliable guesses
"someone with shrewd commercial judgment"
6. opinion: an opinion formed or given after consideration
"a snap judgment"
7. estimate based on observation: an estimate of something such as speed or distance, made with the help of the eye or some other sense
8. judging of something: the judging of a case or a contest
9. divine punishment: a misfortune regarded as a divine punishment for folly or sin ( archaic or humorous )
"The defeat was regarded as a judgment from God on the leader's pride."
10. act of making statement: in logic, the mental act of making or understanding a positive or negative proposition about something, e.g. in "a chihuahua is a dog" or "a lobster is not an insect"

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 02:54 PM
Actually yes.. ALOT!


For the crime of looking good to you?



There are a few who were not blessed with looks...

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 02:57 PM
For the crime of looking good to you?

He he he....

Actually Hayman, judgment is not necessarily a bad thing. Nor is discrimination.

Read anything into that you want, but do you attend church? Do you hang regularly with Christians? If not, is that not judgment?
Is that NOT discrimination?

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 03:00 PM
He he he....

Actually Hayman, judgment is not necessarily a bad thing. Nor is discrimination.

Read anything into that you want, but do you attend church? Do you hang regularly with Christians? If not, is that not judgment?
Is that NOT discrimination?

Wait a minut here. I thought you xian'd boast that YOU DON'T JUDGE!?

DougKMN
April 22nd, 2012, 03:03 PM
Wait a minut here. I thought you xian'd boast that YOU DON'T JUDGE!?

They aren't supposed to practice in public either, but it doesn't stop them.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 03:05 PM
They aren't supposed to practice in public either, but it doesn't stop them.

Where do you get that tidbit from.... :grin:

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 03:06 PM
Where do you get that tidbit from.... :grin:

If you would take the time to read the bible you would know.....





:grin:

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 03:08 PM
What I really find funny is that the christians haven't even looked at it. Stic told me my timeline is off because of the dates the gospels were written, even though this list is mostly OT. Then he told me to study it so I could learn. Cobow says he'd like to see a study on it.

Yet not one christian has looked at it enough to say "nope, this isn't correct... and here is why". Is it arrogance or fear?




It's because most christians don't want to take a chance on interupting their beliefs.I guess i'm an atheist..but will read/listen to both sides with an open mind.But christians seldom want to hear or read something that just might make them ? the bible or their beliefs.
In this specific case it's likely because we've been down this road many many times in the PRM, I've offered several times to do a study with anyone on pretty much any topic, no takers.
Most Christians I know are not afraid to critically study scripture, critically studying scripture is what helps mature one as a Christian. It's actually fairly absurd to believe that christians as a whole or even a majority are afraid to be challenged. I'm not going to sit and ingage in a yelling match or participate as you bash, I'm quite happy and actually look for opportunities to engage. I do know christians that get flustered as they don't feel like they can concisely explain scripture yet they will still sit and talk.
You are just as capable of doing an internet search as anyone. I'm just as capable of ignoring the troll as you are at ignoring the offered explanation.


I have seen interviews with American Atheists who are marginalized and can't find work due to those who are Christians with jobs on offer, we have a phrase over here SIX OF ONE HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER.
Not sure what not being offered a job has to do with bible bashing; not offering a non believer a job isn't bible bashing. I think you meant bible thumping. Keep looking and you will also see christians that are attacked & loose jobs due to their faith.

DougKMN
April 22nd, 2012, 03:10 PM
Take care that you don't flaunt your religion in public to be noticed by others. Otherwise, you will have no recognition from your Father in the heavens

And


But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

:welcomesign:

DougKMN
April 22nd, 2012, 03:12 PM
If you would take the time to read the bible you would know.....





:grin:


Further proof of yet another Xian that claims to know stuff and yet doesn't....

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 03:16 PM
Wait a minut here. I thought you xian'd boast that YOU DON'T JUDGE!?

I NEVER said that! AND in fact that principle is actually anti-biblical.

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 03:25 PM
Now.. to "JUSTIFY" that sytatement, you also must keep the consept in context.
Jugement of people by our own standard leands us to jugement by god of us.
THAT IS a bad thing.
The bible also speaks many times of decerment of others to not hold counsle with fools, walk with fools or argue with fools.

1 Thess. 5-21-22


21 but test them all; hold on to what is good,

22 reject every kind of evil.

To reject requires the ability to decern and requires jugment.

I know what your going to say, but the context that you work off of is one side of that coin.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 03:29 PM
In this specific case it's likely because we've been down this road many many times in the PRM, I've offered several times to do a study with anyone on pretty much any topic, no takers.
Most Christians I know are not afraid to critically study scripture, critically studying scripture is what helps mature one as a Christian. It's actually fairly absurd to believe that christians as a whole or even a majority are afraid to be challenged. I'm not going to sit and ingage in a yelling match or participate as you bash, I'm quite happy and actually look for opportunities to engage. I do know christians that get flustered as they don't feel like they can concisely explain scripture yet they will still sit and talk.
You are just as capable of doing an internet search as anyone. I'm just as capable of ignoring the troll as you are at ignoring the offered explanation.


Not sure what not being offered a job has to do with bible bashing; not offering a non believer a job isn't bible bashing. I think you meant bible thumping. Keep looking and you will also see christians that are attacked & loose jobs due to their faith.Wasn't bashing...jmo.Why do christians always veiw others opinions as ..bash/bashing. christians on here bash atheists/non-believers..too.

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 03:46 PM
And



[/FONT][/COLOR]:welcomesign:
thought you guy were all about context?or only when I post that dawkins quote?LOL

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 03:48 PM
Wasn't bashing...jmo.Why do christians always veiw others opinions as ..bash/bashing. christians on here bash atheists/non-believers..too.

You'll have to remind me where I said you were. I believe you reprinted the opinions of someone that is clueless about the bible, I didn't fault you for that- I pointed out it would be interesting to see the corresponding study. the bashing comment was made in response to bayeux thread where he claimed christians are bashing the bible; I believe he meant bible thumping.

I agree we bash. I'd say that in many cases it's usually an attempt to correct an understanding of christinity but see we have this funny tendency to duck and swing, brain science gives a neat peek into this.

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 03:50 PM
Further proof of yet another Xian that claims to know stuff and yet doesn't....

so then explain it. What do those passages teach?

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 03:51 PM
thought you guy were all about context?or only when I post that dawkins quote?LOLHow can one reject the existance of god...when there is no proof he exists/existed.....as in your sig.There is nothing to reject.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 04:15 PM
I NEVER said that! AND in fact that principle is actually anti-biblical.

Fair enough, please define exactly what flavor Christian you are please since there seem to be so many with different beliefs/interpretations...

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 04:30 PM
If you would take the time to read the bible you would know.....





:grin:And where in the bible would I find that... :grin:

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 04:32 PM
How can one reject the existance of god...when there is no proof he exists/existed.....as in your sig.There is nothing to reject. No, it's more like how can one deny the existance of God when there is evidence of his Creation all around you... :grin: Stubborn I understand... :grin:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 04:33 PM
How can one reject the existance of god...when there is no proof he exists/existed.....as in your sig.There is nothing to reject.
but yet every day you and others on on here hammering about God. Something you all claim does not exist.Ya know that is insane hahahahahaha.

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 04:37 PM
Fair enough, please define exactly what flavor Christian you are please since there seem to be so many with different beliefs/interpretations...

Non denominational.

I follow what the bible says.

Not to say I am against churches, but I have had problems with getting to one.

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 05:40 PM
but yet every day you and others on on here hammering about God. Something you all claim does not exist.Ya know that is insane hahahahahaha.

That's what this place is designed for, though. Most of us can't rattle off like this at work or in most social situations. I do have a few friends with differing beliefs and we get into these conversations...

But for many, this is the only place religion comes up at all.

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 05:46 PM
That's what this place is designed for, though. Most of us can't rattle off like this at work or in most social situations. I do have a few friends with differing beliefs and we get into these conversations...

But for many, this is the only place religion comes up at all.but If one does not believe in God that's fine. But they keep bringing him into just about every thread on here LOL. IMO that's insane and obsessive behavior.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 06:02 PM
but If one does not believe in God that's fine.

1346729

1346730


No it's not.

pybowhtr
April 22nd, 2012, 06:18 PM
The moon creates light along with the stars.

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 06:20 PM
The moon creates light along with the stars.

The moon creates???

Soocom1
April 22nd, 2012, 06:20 PM
The moon creates???

x2.....


HU?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 06:23 PM
1346730


No it's not. The Poser..... it's worse to be phony.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 06:24 PM
The Poser..... it's worse to be phony.

Right you are Ratt.. Them darn....... What?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 06:26 PM
Right you are Ratt.. Them darn....... What?

Posers??? :grin:

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 06:29 PM
but If one does not believe in God that's fine. But they keep bringing him into just about every thread on here LOL. IMO that's insane and obsessive behavior.

Nah, it's cheap and easy entertainment.

Unfortunately, religion does keep trying to stick it's nose into our daily lives. And therefore, it is something that we are forced to deal with. To ignore it would be to roll over and let others decide how we live our lives. I'm not willing to do that.

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 06:31 PM
The moon creates light along with the stars.

According to the bible, yes. But according to science, no.
I think I will go with science on this one.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 06:34 PM
According to the bible, yes. But according to science, no.
I think I will go with science on this one.

Can you create light with a mirror? Is reflecting light to an area that is dark creating light? Does a white paint versus darkwood and dark colors "create" light in a home?

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Can you create light with a mirror? Is reflecting light to an area that is dark creating light? Does a white paint versus darkwood and dark colors "create" light in a home?

No, hon. mirrors and the moon reflect light. Stars and candles create light.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 06:55 PM
Posers??? :grin:

posing for what Ratt?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 06:57 PM
No, hon. mirrors and the moon reflect light. Stars and candles create light.Well I'm just wondering... 3000 years ago, if the light reflected from the moon might not have been thought of to be creating light when it cast a shadow... :grin:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 06:59 PM
Nah, it's cheap and easy entertainment.

Unfortunately, religion does keep trying to stick it's nose into our daily lives. And therefore, it is something that we are forced to deal with. To ignore it would be to roll over and let others decide how we live our lives. I'm not willing to do that.nah constantly complaining about something that one claims is not real is wacky. I mean it's like some are consumed with God yet they say they don't believe.Sound crazy.Now I hope you know I am not talking about you Chick.

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 07:01 PM
1346729

1346730


No it's not.sure it is hayman. BTW people and leaders in this Country been praying since it was founded. You guys just gonna have to deal with it.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 07:03 PM
sure it is hayman. BTW people and leaders in this Country been praying since it was founded. You guys just gonna have to deal with it.

Hold on to that as long as you think you can stick..:wink:

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 07:04 PM
posing for what Ratt?

Well in his case... meaning the president... his whole life has been one pose after another. His latest "Silver Spoon"... neglected an awful lot... like his Grandma... like Punahou... Hawaii'a probably most prestigious College Prepatory school.... and then Columbia, Haavarrrd.... nope just given a chance.... I was given a chance... I was fortunate enough to be born... course I went to Punahou too... hehe... but they fer some reason didn't find me to be "their" prepatory material... :grin:

As for the President in Prayer.... Well you know what yer momma done sayed... right... if you can't say anything nice....

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 07:07 PM
Hold on to that as long as you think you can stick..:wink:

Trust me.... :grin:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 07:08 PM
Hold on to that as long as you think you can stick..:wink:On to what?

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 07:10 PM
On to what?

:wink: :thumbs_up

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 07:11 PM
Lie to as many people as you can? Is that what momma aid Ratt? Nope.... don't think yer momma and mine were on the same page there.

hayman
April 22nd, 2012, 07:15 PM
Trust me.... :grin:

Trust you what?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 07:25 PM
Trust you what?To hold on.... :grin:

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 07:29 PM
Well I'm just wondering... 3000 years ago, if the light reflected from the moon might not have been thought of to be creating light when it cast a shadow... :grin:

That's sort of the point. A book written by men of their day would be expected to have some scientific errors. A book that is the written word of a god should be more accurate. If the book is wrong about something as simple as this, why refer to it as absolute truth on other scientific ideas, such as creation?

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 07:31 PM
nah constantly complaining about something that one claims is not real is wacky. I mean it's like some are consumed with God yet they say they don't believe.Sound crazy.Now I hope you know I am not talking about you Chick.

Yeah, I am almost always the exception. :wink:

sticshooter
April 22nd, 2012, 07:32 PM
:wink: :thumbs_up:cocktail::cocktail: :cocktail::cocktail::cocktail: :cocktail::cocktail::cocktail:

DougKMN
April 22nd, 2012, 07:48 PM
That's sort of the point. A book written by men of their day would be expected to have some scientific errors. A book that is the written word of a god should be more accurate. If the book is wrong about something as simple as this, why refer to it as absolute truth on other scientific ideas, such as creation?

It's much easier to warp the word around and make it seem like it was misunderstood......LOL

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 08:43 PM
That's sort of the point. A book written by men of their day would be expected to have some scientific errors. A book that is the written word of a god should be more accurate. If the book is wrong about something as simple as this, why refer to it as absolute truth on other scientific ideas, such as creation? See... I don't see those as blunders or errors or anything other than a description... by the light of the moon, moonbeam, moonlight, starlight, that is where the light comes from isn't it? I know somewhere in the Bible they talk of the moonlight as being like the sun and the sun being 7 times brighter to reflect the 7 days... but you need to reflect on this stuff I think... you don't get a moon burn... well not 2nd degree kinds anyways... :grin:

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 08:51 PM
According to the bible, yes. But according to science, no.
I think I will go with science on this one.


That's sort of the point. A book written by men of their day would be expected to have some scientific errors. A book that is the written word of a god should be more accurate. If the book is wrong about something as simple as this, why refer to it as absolute truth on other scientific ideas, such as creation?

Can you point to where the bible makes such an assertion or scientific error?

MN_Chick
April 22nd, 2012, 09:31 PM
Can you point to where the bible makes such an assertion or scientific error?

Sure. Gen 1:16, isaiah 13:10 and 30:26, Matt 24:29. I can't copy and paster from the tablet, so you will have to look them up youself. Feel free to do a word study.

BigHarry
April 22nd, 2012, 10:05 PM
See... I don't see those as blunders or errors or anything other than a description... by the light of the moon, moonbeam, moonlight, starlight, that is where the light comes from isn't it? I know somewhere in the Bible they talk of the moonlight as being like the sun and the sun being 7 times brighter to reflect the 7 days... but you need to reflect on this stuff I think... you don't get a moon burn... well not 2nd degree kinds anyways... :grin:

Go see a doc... er, I mean preacher. You're suffering from moon stroke! lol

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:08 PM
You'll have to remind me where I said you were. I believe you reprinted the opinions of someone that is clueless about the bible, I didn't fault you for that- I pointed out it would be interesting to see the corresponding study. the bashing comment was made in response to bayeux thread where he claimed christians are bashing the bible; I believe he meant bible thumping.

I agree we bash. I'd say that in many cases it's usually an attempt to correct an understanding of christinity but see we have this funny tendency to duck and swing, brain science gives a neat peek into this.My bad then..I guess i took where you said ( i'm not going to sit around here while you bash...on page 3)..wrong.You should have said..you all or all of you or every one..:wink:

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:14 PM
but yet every day you and others on on here hammering about God. Something you all claim does not exist.Ya know that is insane hahahahahaha.I can't speak for others but i don't hammer or bash the bible or christians everyday...and seldom do i ever get verry envolved in these debates.But i have posted my opinion at times.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:18 PM
No, it's more like how can one deny the existance of God when there is evidence of his Creation all around you... :grin: Stubborn I understand... :grin:There is no proof that God created anything around us...but if you by chance can prove it other than words in a book...I will then say you are correct.

cobowhntr
April 22nd, 2012, 10:25 PM
Sure. Gen 1:16, isaiah 13:10 and 30:26, Matt 24:29. I can't copy and paster from the tablet, so you will have to look them up youself. Feel free to do a word study.

Genesis 1:16
Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.

lights= hamaa'owr = ma'owr= luminous body

Isaiah 13:10
10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth,
And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

light = 'owraam = owr = illumination, luminary, bright, clear
shine= yagiyah = nagahh= to glitter or illuminate

Isaiah 30:26

26 Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun,
And the light of the sun will be sevenfold,
As the light of seven days,
In the day that the Lord binds up the bruise of His people
And heals the stroke of their wound.

w'owr= owr= illumination or luminary

Matthew 24:29

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

fengos = pheggos= brilliancy
**note** pheggos is akin to the root of phos = to shine or make manifest especially by rays. In it's widest application natural or artificial, abstract or concrete, literal or figurative. example: she radiates a natural glow, she shines, the moon shines, etc.

So the moon is credited with being a luminous body, gaining it's "light" artificially never being attributed to creating it's own light yet clearly the light is in the form of rays(rays of sunshine). When mentioned in conjunction with the sun it usually follows the sun, always clearly showing that it isn't greater nor even equal to the sun.

I fail to see the scientific flaw.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 10:29 PM
Go see a doc... er, I mean preacher. You're suffering from moon stroke! lol

I've been moon struck... star struck and hit with a bat.... Stars all.... :grin:

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 10:31 PM
There is no proof that God created anything around us...but if you by chance can prove it other than words in a book...I will then say you are correct.

It wasn't/isn't a book that validates God's existence for me.... :grin:

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:34 PM
It wasn't/isn't a book that validates God's existence for me.... :grin:Ok....believing he's real doesn't prove he exists/existed.I once believed in the tooth fairy till the money quit rolling in.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 10:35 PM
Ok....believing he's real doesn't prove he exists/existed.I once believed in the tooth fairy till the money quit rolling in. That was Madeoff and Dodd/Frank... :grin:

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:48 PM
That was Madeoff and Dodd/Frank... :grin:All jokes aside,,even though i say no one can prove God exists...i've also said at times..can't prove we elvolved either.But will also say..while i sit on the fence,,i'll have both legs on the side of evolution..for when the time comes that I do need to jump.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 10:52 PM
All jokes aside,,even though i say no one can prove God exists...i've also said at times..can't prove we elvolved either.But will also say..while i sit on the fence,,i'll have both legs on the side of evolution..for when the time comes that I do need to jump.

How are God and evolution exclusive?

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 10:58 PM
How are God and evolution exclusive?Not sure i understand your ?

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 11:04 PM
Not sure i understand your ?
You are saying you're planning on taking the leap one way or the other... how are God and Evolution exclusive of each other? People like me believe that evolution per se. is possible because of God.

IChim2
April 22nd, 2012, 11:20 PM
You are saying you're planning on taking the leap one way or the other... how are God and Evolution exclusive of each other? People like me believe that evolution per se. is possible because of God.I said i sit on the fence with both legs on the side of evolution just in case.I say if there were a God...evolution created him...but thats just having my cake and eating it to...and pretty much..non-sence.No one has ever seen God to prove he's real and the fact that if anyone did see him..they shall die.Meaning..the only way to see him is to die and thats not being fair imo...thats like me saying..Hey ratus..when i die i'm going to give you a million dollars...just trust me.

rattus58
April 22nd, 2012, 11:37 PM
I said i sit on the fence with both legs on the side of evolution just in case.I say if there were a God...evolution created him...but thats just having my cake and eating it to...and pretty much..non-sence.No one has ever seen God to prove he's real and the fact that if anyone did see him..they shall die.Meaning..the only way to see him is to die and thats not being fair imo...thats like me saying..Hey ratus..when i die i'm going to give you a million dollars...just trust me.Consider evolution from Gods standpoint, and that the observed changes and those unexplained... and consider the unthinkable... that God designed the perfection of creation and the timely changes that were developed through time through an accomodating design.... encouraging change....

Buster of Xs
April 22nd, 2012, 11:37 PM
Thought this was interesting and hope i'm not breaking any rules by posting it.

Contradictions?


GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.
GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.
GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.
GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.
GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.
GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.
GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).
GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.
GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.
GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.
GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.
GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.
GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.
GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.
GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.
GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.
GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.
GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.
GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."
GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.
GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine."
DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine."
JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine.
.....removed some 'cause the post was too big......:lol:................ .............................. ....
LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful.
JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.
JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah.
1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.
:

WOW! :faint:

I've personally found quite a few and wrote them down for a time that someone would tell me there weren't any contradictions. I guess now I don't have to write many more down! :lol: I read somewhere that the number of contradictions was higher than words in the New Testament, although I haven't tried to check the numbers myself.

Buster of Xs
April 22nd, 2012, 11:49 PM
How are God and evolution exclusive?

They aren't. BUT....here's the kicker.....evolution and Christian theology most certainly ARE mutually exclusive. If evolution happened then there was NO Adam and Eve, NO tree of the fruit of knowledge, NO serpent and NO FALL from YHWH's good graces. Therefore there was no need for a Jesus, the character than Christianity is kind of linked to (I say kind of because not all Christians view his importance or place quite the same).

rattus58
April 23rd, 2012, 12:15 AM
They aren't. BUT....here's the kicker.....evolution and Christian theology most certainly ARE mutually exclusive. If evolution happened then there was NO Adam and Eve, NO tree of the fruit of knowledge, NO serpent and NO FALL from YHWH's good graces. Therefore there was no need for a Jesus, the character than Christianity is kind of linked to (I say kind of because not all Christians view his importance or place quite the same).

Hahahhaa.... Of course they aren't. Its all a matter of interpretation.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 12:27 AM
Hahahhaa.... Of course they aren't. Its all a matter of interpretation.

Well, we know evolution happened. We have the phylology, the fossils and the DNA evidence. It's pretty much wrapped up. But remember that evolution has nothing to do with how life started, Rat. It only deals with population mechanics after it's started.

Now Abiogenesis is the study of how life started. How it started is still up for grabs. We do know from several experiments that life CAN start on it's own. And knowing it's possible is all that's really needed. But creation and panspermia are also possibilities I suppose, with panspermia being the most likely since it doesn't require anything supernatural.

Spreggy
April 23rd, 2012, 12:58 AM
They just didn't know very much back when they wrote that book.

sticshooter
April 23rd, 2012, 06:01 AM
They aren't. BUT....here's the kicker.....evolution and Christian theology most certainly ARE mutually exclusive. If evolution happened then there was NO Adam and Eve, NO tree of the fruit of knowledge, NO serpent and NO FALL from YHWH's good graces. Therefore there was no need for a Jesus, the character than Christianity is kind of linked to (I say kind of because not all Christians view his importance or place quite the same).well check them out and get back to us.

IChim2
April 23rd, 2012, 09:32 AM
WOW! :faint:

I've personally found quite a few and wrote them down for a time that someone would tell me there weren't any contradictions. I guess now I don't have to write many more down! :lol: I read somewhere that the number of contradictions was higher than words in the New Testament, although I haven't tried to check the numbers myself.Part 2 is on one of the pages...there's 2 more parts i haven't posted.

DougKMN
April 23rd, 2012, 09:37 AM
Part 2 is on one of the pages...there's 2 more parts i haven't posted.

Here's a graphic:

http://www.mnwhitetails.com/pics/contradictions.png

IChim2
April 23rd, 2012, 09:55 AM
part 3..

MT 4:5-8 The Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top.
LK 4:5-9 First to the mountain top, then to the pinnacle of the temple.
MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.)
LK 5:2-11 (A different story.)
JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.)
MT 5:1 - 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount.
LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.)
MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.
MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus underscores the permanence of the law.
LE 10:8 - 11:47, DT 14:3-21 The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods.
MK 7:14-15, MK 7:18-19 Jesus says that there is no such distinction.
1TI 4:1-4 All foods are clean according to Paul.
MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.
MT 5:22 Anyone who calls another a fool is liable to Hell.
MT 7:26 Jesus says that anyone who hears his words and does not do them is a fool. (Note: The translation now prevalent, "like a foolish man," in MT 7:26 is a dishonest attempt to alleviate the obvious inconsistency here in that the oldest Greek manuscripts use the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and "like a foolish man" in MT 7:26.)
MT 23:17-19 Jesus twice calls the Pharisees blind fools.
MT 25:2, 3, 8 Jesus likens the maidens who took no oil to fools. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
1CO 1:23, 3:18, 4:10 Paul uses fool with regard to Christians becoming fools for Christ. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
EP 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin.
MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works.
MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season.
MK 3:5 Jesus looks around "angrily."
MT 5:32 Divorce, except on the grounds of unchastity, is wrong.
MK 10:11-12 Divorce on any grounds is wrong.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Jesus says: "Do not resist evil. Love your enemies."
MT 6:15, 12:34, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 17, 19, 27, 29, 33, MK 7:6, LK 11:40, 44, 12:56 Jesus repeatedly hurls epithets at his opponents.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
LK 19:27 God is likened to one who destroys his enemies.
MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
2JN 1:9-11 Shun anyone who does not hold the proper doctrine.
MT 5:43-44, MT 22:39 Love your enemies. Love your neighbor as yourself.
MT 10:5 Go nowhere among the Gentiles nor enter a Samaritan town.
MT 5:45, 7:21 God resides in heaven.
MK 13:32 The angels reside in heaven
AC 7:55, HE 12:2 Jesus is at the right hand of God, in heaven.
1PE 1:3-4 Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven.
MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33 Heaven will pass away.
MT 6:13 God might lead us into temptation and it is better avoided.
JA 1:2-3 Temptation is joy.
MT 6:13 Jesus' prayer implies that God might lead us into temptation.
JA 1:13 God tempts no one.
MT 6:25-34, LK 12:22-31 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
1TI 5:8 A man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. (Note: Providing for a family certainly involves taking "thought for tomorrow.")
MT 7:1-2 Do not judge.
MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet.
MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you will find.
LK 13:24 Many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable.
MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:39 Those God calls to himself will be saved.
MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.
MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.
MT 8:16, LK 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick.
MK 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all).
MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident.
MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident.
MT 9:18 The ruler's daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her.
LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead.
MT 10:1-8 Jesus gives his disciples the power to exorcise and heal...
MT 17:14-16 (Yet) the disciples are unable to do so.
MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot.
LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains).
AC 1:13, 26 Same as MT and MK except that, like LK Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, Judas the son of James is included, and Mathias is chosen by the others to replace Judas Iscariot.
MT 10:2, 5-6 Peter was to be an apostle to the Jews and not go near the Gentiles.
AC 15:7 He was an apostle to the Gentiles.
MT 10:10 Do not take sandals (shoes) or staves.
MK 6:8-9 Take sandals (shoes) and staves.
MT 10:34, LK 12:49-53 Jesus has come to bring a sword, fire, and division--not peace.
JN 16:33 Jesus says: "In me you have peace."
MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved.
MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved.
JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.
AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved.
1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.)
MT 10:28, LK 12:4 Jesus says not to fear men. (Fear God only.)
MT 12:15-16, JN 7:1-10, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54 Jesus hid, escaped, went secretly, etc.
MT 11:7-15, 17:12-13 Jesus says that John the Baptist was a prophet, and more.
JN 1:21 John himself says that he is not a prophet, nor is he Elijah.
MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 Jesus thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes." He says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain hidden to at least some persons, and specifically so that they will not turn and be forgiven.
MK 4:22 Jesus says that all things should be made known.
MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly).
JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.)
MT 12:5 Jesus says that the law (OT) states that the priests profane the Sabbath but are blameless. (No such statement is found in the OT.
MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him.
MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him.
(Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the "for him" category in the first instance and in the "against him" category in the second instance.)
MT 12:39, MK 8:12, LK 11:29 Jesus says that he will give no "sign."
JN 3:2, 20:30, AC 2:22 Jesus proceeds to give many such "signs."
MT 13:34, MK 4:34 Jesus addresses the crowds only in parables, so that they would not fully understand. He explains the meaning only to his disciples.
JN 1:1 - 21:25 (Throughout the book of John, unlike the other Gospels, Jesus addresses the crowds in a very straightforward manner. He does not employ parables.)
MT 13:58, MK 6:5 In spite of his faith, Jesus is not able to perform mighty miracles.
MT 17:20, 19:26, MK 9:23, 10:27, LK 17:6, 18:27 Jesus says that anything is possible to him who believes if he has the faith of a grain of mustard seed. All things are possible with God. A mountain can be commanded to move and it will move.
MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain "yes" or "no," that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil.
JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words "not yet" were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.)
MT 16:6, 11 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
MK 8:15 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod.
MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] "Satan" and "a hindrance," and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God.
MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
AC 15:1-21 James presides over the first Council of Jerusalem and formulates the decree regarding the accepting of Gentiles which is sent to the other churches. (Note: Tradition has it that James was appointed as the first Bishop or Pope, not Peter.)
MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.
MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.
MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.
MT 20:29-34 Jesus heals two blind men on the way to Jericho.
MK 10:46-52 He heals one blind man.
MT 21:1-17 The sequence was: triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, Bethany.
MK 11:1-19 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple.
LK 19:28-48 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, daily teaching in the temple.
JN 12:1-18 Cleansing of the temple (early in his career), Supper with Lazarus, triumphal entry, no cleansing of the temple following the triumphal entry.
MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT).
JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself.
MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry.
MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved.
MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus' career.
JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career.
MT 21:19-20 The fig tree withers immediately after being cursed by Jesus. The disciples notice and are amazed.
MK 11:13-14, 20-21 The disciples first notice that the tree has withered the day following.
MT 23:35 Jesus says that Zacharias (Zechariah) was the son of Barachias (Barachiah).
2CH 24:20 Zacharias was actually the son of Jehoida, the priest.
(Note: The name Barachias, or Barachiah, does not appear in the O.T.)
MT 24:29-33, MK 13:24-29 The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles.
LK 17:20-21 It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles. It is already within.
MT 25:34 Heaven was prepared before the Ascension of Jesus.
JN 14:2-3 It was prepared after the Ascension of Jesus.
MT 26:6-13, MK 14:3 The anointing of Jesus takes place in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper.
LK 7:36-38 It takes place at the house of a Pharisee in Galilee.
MT 26:7, MK 14:3 The oil is poured on Jesus' head.
LK 7:38, JN 12:3 On his feet.
MT 26:7, MK 14:3, LK 7:37 An unnamed woman does the anointing.
JN 12:3 It is Mary.
MT 28:6-8 The women ran from the tomb "with great joy."
JN 20:1-2 Mary told Peter and the other disciple that the body had been stolen. (Would she feel "great joy" if she thought the body had been stolen?)
MT 26:8 The disciples reproach her.
MK 14:4 "Some" reproach her.
JN 12:4-5 Judas Iscariot reproaches her.
MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal.
JN 13:21-30 After the meal.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 04:12 PM
well check them out and get back to us.

Are you kidding? :mg: It would take years to compile all the problems in that *******ized book. Heck, there are over 3000 versions floating around out there and some have problems unique to just that version. :faint:

sticshooter
April 23rd, 2012, 07:26 PM
Are you kidding? :mg: It would take years to compile all the problems in that *******ized book. Heck, there are over 3000 versions floating around out there and some have problems unique to just that version. :faint:hahaha yeah that's what I thought. Spouting off like ya know and then nothing. typical atheists.BTW your post here is bogus and shows your lack of knowledge of the bible. Like I said typical.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 08:09 PM
hahaha yeah that's what I thought. Spouting off like ya know and then nothing. typical atheists.BTW your post here is bogus and shows your lack of knowledge of the bible. Like I said typical.

I only said that "I read there were as many inconsistencies as ....." and that I didn't confirm it. I made no claims whatsoever. And there ARE thousands of different transcripts out there, so you should do your homework.

I'd say my biblical knowledge is at least equal to yours. I am a former Christian, Stic. :nod:

sticshooter
April 23rd, 2012, 08:13 PM
I only said that "I read there were as many inconsistencies as ....." and that I didn't confirm it. I made no claims whatsoever. And there ARE thousands of different transcripts out there, so you should do your homework.

I'd say my biblical knowledge is at least equal to yours. I am a former Christian, Stic. :nod:love that former stuff always makes me laugh.Thanks

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 08:21 PM
love that former stuff always makes me laugh.Thanks

So I wised up and I quit believing in lots of other silly things. Something wrong with that? BTW, I'm a former Clausist, too. :lol:

sticshooter
April 23rd, 2012, 08:42 PM
So I wised up and I quit believing in lots of other silly things. Something wrong with that? BTW, I'm a former Clausist, too. :lol:hahahaha

MoBo Act 4:12
April 23rd, 2012, 10:05 PM
If you and others are so adjusted from silly things, why do you continue to believe in a faux science? well?

You're not fooling any of us, and certainly not me.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM
If you and others are so adjusted from silly things, why do you continue to believe in a faux science? well?

You're not fooling any of us, and certainly not me.

Show me evidence it's "faux science". ICR clowns don't mean a thing until they get their heads together and actually DO something. You saying it's fake means nothing either since your grasp of what science even states seems to escape you.

Come on, show me. I am an evidentialist more than anything......so I need some evidence.

BigHarry
April 23rd, 2012, 10:12 PM
If you and others are so adjusted from silly things, why do you continue to believe in a faux science? well?

You're not fooling any of us, and certainly not me.

Yeah... you're nobody's fool! lol

MoBo Act 4:12
April 23rd, 2012, 10:19 PM
Show me evidence it's "faux science". ICR clowns don't mean a thing until they get their heads together and actually DO something. You saying it's fake means nothing either since your grasp of what science even states seems to escape you.

Come on, show me. I am an evidentialist more than anything......so I need some evidence.

That's just it, there is no evidence for what you project, therefore, there's your "faux science".

MoBo Act 4:12
April 23rd, 2012, 10:19 PM
Yeah... you're nobody's fool! lol

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 10:22 PM
That's just it, there is no evidence for what you project, therefore, there's your "faux science".

Holy crap, Mo. This is just getting ridiculous. If you'd just read the journals once in a while (instead of that ICR hogwash) you'd realize how very wrong you are. Just the DNA evidence ALONE is enough to prove life forms evolved. It's a closed case and has been for over 150 years, man. Get with it.

MoBo Act 4:12
April 23rd, 2012, 11:02 PM
Holy crap, Mo. This is just getting ridiculous. If you'd just read the journals once in a while (instead of that ICR hogwash) you'd realize how very wrong you are. Just the DNA evidence ALONE is enough to prove life forms evolved. It's a closed case and has been for over 150 years, man. Get with it.

LOL, here goes the merry-go-round again. No one is disputing that a species undergoes certain amounts of change, they do, through mutations. But your faux science wants us to believe that DNA/RNA sequencing, via mutations, allows ginormous changes that just isn't possible. The ginormous changes that turn fish to cows, dinosaurs to birds, shrews to you, monkeys/ape'ish to man, and inanimate matter/goo to you.

I wave the BS flag to you on that Buster.:bs:

It defies what's knowledge, it defies what's intellectual, and it is nothing more than a pseudo/faux science, at best.

The genetics you would have us believe just doesn't exist in the world of reality.

Buster of Xs
April 23rd, 2012, 11:20 PM
LOL, here goes the merry-go-round again. No one is disputing that a species undergoes certain amounts of change, they do, through mutations. But your faux science wants us to believe that DNA/RNA sequencing, via mutations, allows ginormous changes that just isn't possible. The ginormous changes that turn fish to cows, dinosaurs to birds, shrews to you, monkeys/ape'ish to man, and inanimate matter/goo to you.

I wave the BS flag to you on that Buster.:bs:

It defies what's knowledge, it defies what's intellectual, and it is nothing more than a pseudo/faux science, at best.

The genetics you would have us believe just doesn't exist in the world of reality.

You must be kidding me. :doh: Why, just why, does an amoeba have more DNA than you or I have? Any ideas? Do you really think it uses it all when we don't? Why all the genomes? Can they be used by later generations under proper conditions?

There's the entry to the rabbit hole, Mo. The rest is up to you.

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 12:06 AM
You must be kidding me. :doh: Why, just why, does an amoeba have more DNA than you or I have? Any ideas? Do you really think it uses it all when we don't? Why all the genomes? Can they be used by later generations under proper conditions?

There's the entry to the rabbit hole, Mo. The rest is up to you.

More, DNA, less DNA, yadda, yadda, yadda. The crux is what is encoded into that DNA. Just like you, you got your DNA from your mom and dad, and you got a fusion from each. You may have gotten a mutation that caused an informity or handicap [copying mistake], but even if you passed it on through generations and etc., the end result will be that you get a "human". Sure, some variety, some changes, but still "human".

In fish's DNA, there is no encoded information that will eventually turn it into a cow. No mutations will achieve that. Same with dinosaurs to birds, same with shrews to human, monkey/ape'ish to human, and ESPECIALLY with inanimate matter [which has no DNA to begin with] turning into a living thing with encoded DNA.

What you propose really isn't even intellectual. But it'd be good for movies like "transformers".

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 12:08 AM
You must be kidding me. :doh: Why, just why, does an amoeba have more DNA than you or I have? Any ideas? Do you really think it uses it all when we don't? Why all the genomes? Can they be used by later generations under proper conditions?

There's the entry to the rabbit hole, Mo. The rest is up to you.If that is the case, why would you at all suggest that Intelligent design is flawed?

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 12:18 AM
More, DNA, less DNA, yadda, yadda, yadda. The crux is what is encoded into that DNA. Just like you, you got your DNA from your mom and dad, and you got a fusion from each. You may have gotten a mutation that caused an informity or handicap [copying mistake], but even if you passed it on through generations and etc., the end result will be that you get a "human". Sure, some variety, some changes, but still "human".

The only thing that is keeping you from grasping the obvious is time scale, Mo. Those little changes add up. Humans, at least living as wild primitives, will breed by age 12-15. From one stage of homonoid to the next is a vast period of time. That's a lot of generations. Plus it only takes one big change to spread throughout the population over time. If you aren't a YEC then you have to realize the amount of time we're talking here, not to mention the often and sudden changes in habitat on this planet.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 12:19 AM
If that is the case, why would you at all suggest that Intelligent design is flawed?

Because there's no evidence, Rat. No need to add a non-answer, like ID or god, when natural means perfectly explain it. Occam's Razor, Rattus.

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 12:23 AM
The only thing that is keeping you from grasping the obvious is time scale, Mo. Those little changes add up. Humans, at least living as wild primitives, will breed by age 12-15. From one stage of homonoid to the next is a vast period of time. That's a lot of generations. Plus it only takes one big change to spread throughout the population over time. If you aren't a YEC then you have to realize the amount of time we're talking here, not to mention the often and sudden changes in habitat on this planet.

Ah yes, i was anticipating that, the "ions of time" thing that you can't prove and that doesn't change with what i just posted above. Time isn't a game-changer. Time doesn'ttotally re-vamp encoded information in DNA.
Like i've said before, if i were to tell you a princess could kiss a frog and turn it into a prince, you'd scoff at me. However, replace that kiss with ions of time and then i got something, huh?

What you propose strains out intellectualness.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 12:30 AM
There's the problem. DNA isn't being re-vamped at all. It's all there in the lowest of life forms. It just needs "turned on". It's already known that environment activates genes in living things. Genes that have almost always been there, even in "lower" life forms. So your point of rejection isn't even a point anyway. :no:

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 12:38 AM
There's the problem. DNA isn't being re-vamped at all. It's all there in the lowest of life forms. It just needs "turned on". It's already known that environment activates genes in living things. Genes that have almost always been there, even in "lower" life forms. So your point of rejection isn't even a point anyway. :no:

Oh my!

So when a fish eventually turns into a cow [land mammal], a dinosaur into a bird, a shrew into a human, a monkey/ape'ish into a human, and inanimate matter into living, DNA/RNA isn't being either re-vamped or created???:doh:

They've really done a number on you haven't they?:nono: :sad:

G'night.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 12:49 AM
Oh my!

So when a fish eventually turns into a cow [land mammal], a dinosaur into a bird, a shrew into a human, a monkey/ape'ish into a human, and inanimate matter into living, DNA/RNA isn't being either re-vamped or created???:doh:

They've really done a number on you haven't they?:nono: :sad:

G'night.

Considering most of our DNA is present in all living things it should be really simple to understand. It hardly even requires any genetic change to create a new organism, just for some segments to become active or others to become inactive. That alone, with no additional changes to the genome, can create entire new creatures. New species. Add a few mutations and you're really going to see some big changes.

You really should catch up on your science. The only reason I've been trying to keep up is that human origins has been a pet study of mine for a long time now and the scientific community has all the data. You can only glean so much from ancient texts, although I've read a LOT of those, too.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 02:12 AM
k6PWFvzKl3I

DougKMN
April 24th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Considering most of our DNA is present in all living things it should be really simple to understand. It hardly even requires any genetic change to create a new organism, just for some segments to become active or others to become inactive. That alone, with no additional changes to the genome, can create entire new creatures. New species. Add a few mutations and you're really going to see some big changes.

You really should catch up on your science. The only reason I've been trying to keep up is that human origins has been a pet study of mine for a long time now and the scientific community has all the data. You can only glean so much from ancient texts, although I've read a LOT of those, too.

You might have better luck trying to warm jello to a tree.

MN_Chick
April 24th, 2012, 11:47 AM
LOL, here goes the merry-go-round again. No one is disputing that a species undergoes certain amounts of change, they do, through mutations. But your faux science wants us to believe that DNA/RNA sequencing, via mutations, allows ginormous changes that just isn't possible. The ginormous changes that turn fish to cows, dinosaurs to birds, shrews to you, monkeys/ape'ish to man, and inanimate matter/goo to you.

I wave the BS flag to you on that Buster.:bs:

It defies what's knowledge, it defies what's intellectual, and it is nothing more than a pseudo/faux science, at best.

The genetics you would have us believe just doesn't exist in the world of reality.

Wow, this was a suprise. Everytime you can't argue the topic at hand, you bring up your misunderstanding of evolution.

Evolution has no bearing on the inconsistencies and errors in the bible. And disproving science will not allow your beliefs to slide into the "accepted wisdom" spot. If you can't argue the topic at hand, jsut admit it or (even better) don't comment. But the standard "I can distract them with my favorite topics" really gets kind of stale.

Feel free to jump in and disprove any of the points in the first two parts of what was posted. But really.. get over the evolution thing. It's irrelevant to this topic and the constant hijacking is simple bad manners.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 03:59 PM
Wow, this was a suprise. Everytime you can't argue the topic at hand, you bring up your misunderstanding of evolution.

Evolution has no bearing on the inconsistencies and errors in the bible. And disproving science will not allow your beliefs to slide into the "accepted wisdom" spot. If you can't argue the topic at hand, jsut admit it or (even better) don't comment. But the standard "I can distract them with my favorite topics" really gets kind of stale.

Feel free to jump in and disprove any of the points in the first two parts of what was posted. But really.. get over the evolution thing. It's irrelevant to this topic and the constant hijacking is simple bad manners.

It's why I asked him what I did when he replied (in what you quoted). He's posing a false dichotomy, where it's the Bible's version of creation or evolution. Of course, those aren't the only two options since there are hundreds of other creation myths and then there's panspermia (either direct or indirect) and evolution has no bearing on how life started either. I was wondering how he thought disproving evolution (which he never will accomplish) could make the fairy tale story any more acceptable?

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:01 PM
So, how about all of those contradictions in the bible. Any of the Christians here want to explain how contradictory things can both be true, or how the bible can have many, many contradictions and still be inerrant?

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 04:02 PM
So, how about all of those contradictions in the bible. Any of the Christians here want to explain how contradictory things can both be true, or how the bible can have many, many contradictions and still be inerrant?

Or the work of an omniscient being? :lol:

ZenBubba
April 24th, 2012, 04:07 PM
So, how about all of those contradictions in the bible. Any of the Christians here want to explain how contradictory things can both be true, or how the bible can have many, many contradictions and still be inerrant?

I thought about addressing the subject as a whole because I think addressing each point individually would be more work than a doctoral thesis in Divinity. The other reason I didn't is because most answers are met with "bronze age sky daddy" assertions which kind of makes discussion tedious and boorish.

sticshooter
April 24th, 2012, 04:09 PM
I thought about addressing the subject as a whole because I think addressing each point individually would be more work than a doctoral thesis in Divinity. The other reason I didn't is because most answers are met with "bronze age sky daddy" assertions which kind of makes discussion tedious and boorish.
and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 04:16 PM
I thought about addressing the subject as a whole because I think addressing each point individually would be more work than a doctoral thesis in Divinity. The other reason I didn't is because most answers are met with "bronze age sky daddy" assertions which kind of makes discussion tedious and boorish.

No Skydaddy terms are needed in this case. Just show how these inconsistencies aren't actually inconsistent. Or demonstrate how an all knowing being communicates his so-important message through texts in dying languages and bad translations. I'd think a god could do much better than that, don't you? Sky writing would be more effective or even something as mundane as an occasional visit. :D

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:28 PM
I thought about addressing the subject as a whole because I think addressing each point individually would be more work than a doctoral thesis in Divinity. The other reason I didn't is because most answers are met with "bronze age sky daddy" assertions which kind of makes discussion tedious and boorish.

So far I've been unimpressed with the "there's nothing to see here, move along" 'arguments' that attempt to dodge the issue of biblical contradictions. The contradictions are there, and they do present a problem for biblical inerrentists. Less so for people who see the bible as a flawed work of man.

But since this is a thread about bible contradictions it seems reasonable to suggest that believers should address the topic.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:29 PM
and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.

Funny, I feel the same way about you. But don't worry, I won't use that as an excuse to not show you that you are wrong :wink:

Spreggy
April 24th, 2012, 04:31 PM
and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.

Please, show us.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:34 PM
Please, show us.

Good point. Stic's excuse reminds me of a ten-year old caught out without any actual argument for his assertions. "You're wrong! I'd show you, but, um, then I'd just have to show you again!"

ZenBubba
April 24th, 2012, 04:37 PM
and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.

LOL Exactly!

BigHarry
April 24th, 2012, 04:37 PM
Please, show us.

Yeah, please.

Spreggy
April 24th, 2012, 04:40 PM
They've got nothing. Nor do they have the ability to admit that. It seems like excuse making to us, but that is their actual rationale to themselves as well.

MN_Chick
April 24th, 2012, 04:41 PM
I thought about addressing the subject as a whole because I think addressing each point individually would be more work than a doctoral thesis in Divinity. The other reason I didn't is because most answers are met with "bronze age sky daddy" assertions which kind of makes discussion tedious and boorish.


and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.


Soooo. no. You are both saying that you cannot defend the errors in the book that you claim to live by. I guess that ends this discussion. I'm a little disappointed, but not really suprised that none of you would even look at the list that is up for discussion.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 04:42 PM
These are the kinds of things that started me towards atheism to begin with. :nod: Actually READING the Bible is the quickest path to non-belief. It's how most of us get on that path. :lol:

ZenBubba
April 24th, 2012, 04:45 PM
So far I've been unimpressed with the "there's nothing to see here, move along" 'arguments' that attempt to dodge the issue of biblical contradictions. The contradictions are there, and they do present a problem for biblical inerrentists. Less so for people who see the bible as a flawed work of man.

But since this is a thread about bible contradictions it seems reasonable to suggest that believers should address the topic.

I'll give it a try Warb, but I've been down this road before.

I have a long preface before I can dive in. Can you roll with that?

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 04:47 PM
I'll give it a try Warb, but I've been down this road before.

I have a long preface before I can dive in. Can you roll with that?

I can save you the trouble of the long preface. Look at the video I posted on the last page and there you'll find a top biblical scholar explaining where these inconsistencies come from. The problem is that it also proves the Bible is not the work of a god or even inspired men, but fallible, politically motivated individuals.....even tired scribes.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 04:49 PM
You know... just out of curiosity, I went back and read Genesis... so show me how this all are contradictory in CONTEXT.... thank you!

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:50 PM
I'll give it a try Warb, but I've been down this road before.

I have a long preface before I can dive in. Can you roll with that?

Of course, ZB.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:51 PM
You know... just out of curiosity, I went back and read Genesis... so show me how this all are contradictory in CONTEXT.... thank you!

Rattus, in context or out, the two creation stories are contradictory. The order of creation, and how man and woman were created. The bible is contradictory from the very start.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 04:51 PM
You know... just out of curiosity, I went back and read Genesis... so show me how this all are contradictory in CONTEXT.... thank you!

Just two different creation stories in one book should set off the first alarm. :confused:

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 04:53 PM
Um... why don't you show me instead.

ZenBubba
April 24th, 2012, 04:55 PM
I can save you the trouble of the long preface. Look at the video I posted on the last page and there you'll find a top biblical scholar explaining where these inconsistencies come from. The problem is that it also proves the Bible is not the work of a god or even inspired men, but fallible, politically motivated individuals.....even tired scribes.

OK, I tried.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Um... why don't you show me instead.

I thought you just re-read Genesis. Are you saying you didn't notice the blatant contradictions?



First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)


Genesis 1:25-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#25)
(Humans were created after the other animals.) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Genesis 2:18-19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(Humans were created before the other animals.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Genesis 1:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#27)
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:18-22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 05:00 PM
OK, I tried.

No, you didn't. You never posted anything. That isn't "trying".

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 05:02 PM
OK, I tried.

Seriously, you owe it to yourself to watch that 8 minute video. It'll be quite eye opening. Of course, many will get mad for being railroaded for decades, but you seem mellow enough to handle it. :D

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 05:03 PM
and even after you show them that their wrong they would fade away for awhile and bring it back up later.Ya know like it was never asked or shown before.

And we have a winner.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 05:04 PM
I thought you just re-read Genesis. Are you saying you didn't notice the blatant contradictions?



First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)


Genesis 1:25-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#25)
(Humans were created after the other animals.) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Genesis 2:18-19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(Humans were created before the other animals.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Genesis 1:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#27)
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:18-22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

That's because the Nicean council erased the mention of Adam's first wife, Lilith, and eventually demonized her. Those writings are still available if one wants to read them.

sticshooter
April 24th, 2012, 05:05 PM
I thought you just re-read Genesis. Are you saying you didn't notice the blatant contradictions?



First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)


Genesis 1:25-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#25)
(Humans were created after the other animals.) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Genesis 2:18-19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(Humans were created before the other animals.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Genesis 1:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#27)
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:18-22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html


http://creation.com/genesis-contradictions

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Wow, this was a suprise. Everytime you can't argue the topic at hand, you bring up your misunderstanding of evolution.

Evolution has no bearing on the inconsistencies and errors in the bible. And disproving science will not allow your beliefs to slide into the "accepted wisdom" spot. If you can't argue the topic at hand, jsut admit it or (even better) don't comment. But the standard "I can distract them with my favorite topics" really gets kind of stale.

Feel free to jump in and disprove any of the points in the first two parts of what was posted. But really.. get over the evolution thing. It's irrelevant to this topic and the constant hijacking is simple bad manners.

Yeah, well, if you could use this mantra when your side hijack every thread with anti-religion, anti-christianity, jargon, then i just may take what you said more seriously. Until then, i'll take it as you just don't like something you have a deep belief in being exposed for the faux-science it really is.

You really need to attack all those inconsistencies in your beliefs before you go to throwing rocks at others.:nod: Same with Buster.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:09 PM
I thought you just re-read Genesis. Are you saying you didn't notice the blatant contradictions?



First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)


Genesis 1:25-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#25)
(Humans were created after the other animals.) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Genesis 2:18-19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(Humans were created before the other animals.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


Genesis 1:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html#27)
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:18-22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html#18)
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

I don't see these as contradictions. I view them as context.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 05:12 PM
I don't see these as contradictions. I view them as context.

Well, you can do that, but to do so doesn't actually make any sense. I could say 1+1=11 and say the answer provides "context", but to do so wouldn't make any more sense than what you just said. Calling a contradiction "context" doesn't make anything other than a contradiction.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:15 PM
Well, you can do that, but to do so doesn't actually make any sense. I could say 1+1=11 and say the answer provides "context", but to do so wouldn't make any more sense than what you just said. Calling a contradiction "context" doesn't make anything other than a contradiction.

Of course i can and you can. It would be better for you to show me how Genesis two "contradicts" genesis one in context.. instead of irrelevant numbers. How does the context of genesis 2 contradict, in context, genesis 1?

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Of course i can and you can. It would be better for you to show me how Genesis two "contradicts" genesis one in context.. instead of irrelevant numbers. How does the context of genesis 2 contradict, in context, genesis 1?

If you read the original Genesis texts (taken straight from Hebrew) you'd see that there are two very distinct creation stories and even two different wives.

The funny part? Jews don't take ANY of it literally, so if you do you're crazy. :lol:

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:21 PM
If you read the original Genesis texts (taken straight from Hebrew) you'd see that there are two very distinct creation stories and even two different wives.

The funny part? Jews don't take ANY of it literally, so if you do you're bat turd crazy. :lol:

Yer not worth responding to.... probably ever... since you seem to be ill informed, for one thing, and two.... you seem to be wanting to bring the wrath of Buckster and the sock upon us... so... aloha...

MoBo Act 4:12
April 24th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Yer not worth responding to.... probably ever... since you seem to be ill informed, for one thing, and two.... you seem to be wanting to bring the wrath of Buckster and the sock upon us... so... aloha...

Indeed.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Yer not worth responding to.... probably ever... since you seem to be ill informed, for one thing, and two.... you seem to be wanting to bring the wrath of Buckster and the sock upon us... so... aloha...

You seem to be dodging the facts. The two different orders of creation can't *both* be true at the same time. One, or both, of them has to be false. You can't "it gives me context" yourself out of that.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Yer not worth responding to.... probably ever... since you seem to be ill informed, for one thing, and two.... you seem to be wanting to bring the wrath of Buckster and the sock upon us... so... aloha...

Sorry, but you need to at least know the history of that book or it's worthless. Knowing the history makes it absolutely worthless, it really does. You should read up. :nod: That is the most butchered document on Earth and it's pretty common knowledge to anyone who doesn't hide their head in the sand. This is part of why your "creationist science" stuff doesn't hold water....the creation account isn't even trustworthy. Sorry, but it's true.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:29 PM
You seem to be dodging the facts. The two different orders of creation can't *both* be true at the same time. One, or both, of them has to be false. You can't "it gives me context" yourself out of that.You're free to point out the contextual disparity... otherwise you're just wasting oxygen.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Sorry, but you need to at least know the history of that book or it's worthless. Knowing the history makes it absolutely worthless, it really does. You should read up. :nod: That is the most butchered document on Earth and it's pretty common knowledge to anyone who doesn't hide their head in the sand. This is part of why your "creationist science" stuff doesn't hold water....the creation account isn't even trustworthy. Sorry, but it's true.Don't be sorry on my account.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 05:31 PM
You're free to point out the contextual disparity...

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:32 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.

Stop wasting my time then.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Don't be sorry on my account.

I only feel sorry in the same way I feel sorry for the kid who just finds out Santa or the Easter Bunny aren't real. It can be crushing. I know, I've already travelled that path.

But facts are facts and there's not one word in that Bible that can be taken as fact. None of it is inerrant and all was written by fallible men with an agenda.

Warbow
April 24th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Stop wasting my time then.

If *you* are misusing a word that is on you, not me.

rattus58
April 24th, 2012, 05:51 PM
If *you* are misusing a word that is on you, not me.so be it....

cobowhntr
April 24th, 2012, 06:28 PM
Please, show us.


Good point. Stic's excuse reminds me of a ten-year old caught out without any actual argument for his assertions. "You're wrong! I'd show you, but, um, then I'd just have to show you again!"


Soooo. no. You are both saying that you cannot defend the errors in the book that you claim to live by. I guess that ends this discussion. I'm a little disappointed, but not really suprised that none of you would even look at the list that is up for discussion.
Although there's no attempt to defend the Book, I did respond to MN back in #137 & it seems no one offered any discussion; so at this point stic's one up.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Although there's no attempt to defend the Book, I did respond to MN back in #137 & it seems no one offered any discussion; so at this point stic's one up.

Yes, you did. But those things still don't jive with what we now know about the universe. For example, the sun existed before the Earth and moon, correct? How about how the rest of the universe being made AFTER the Earth, yet there are stars older than our own? You did point out the use of "light", but I don't think that was the point that really needed addressed.

This is exactly what primitive men would have written, not someone under the influence of a god. That's the point here.

Spreggy
April 24th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Yes, you did. But those things still don't jive with what we now know about the universe. For example, the sun existed before the Earth and moon, correct? How about how the rest of the universe being made AFTER the Earth, yet there are stars older than our own? You did point out the use of "light", but I don't think that was the point that really needed addressed.

This is exactly what primitive men would have written, not someone under the influence of a god. That's the point here.

That's it, in a nutshell. Much like reading the book of Mormon, which is plagued with errors and language that lock it into a specific time period.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 07:18 PM
This is worth posting AGAIN.

You guys defending the Bible absolutely need to watch this before any more "inerrant" Bible claims come out. At least know what you're talking about first, OK?

k6PWFvzKl3I

cobowhntr
April 24th, 2012, 07:26 PM
Yes, you did. But those things still don't jive with what we now know about the universe. For example, the sun existed before the Earth and moon, correct? How about how the rest of the universe being made AFTER the Earth, yet there are stars older than our own? You did point out the use of "light", but I don't think that was the point that really needed addressed.

This is exactly what primitive men would have written, not someone under the influence of a god. That's the point here.

Actually that wasn't the point. The assertion was that the bible claims the moon creates it's own light. That since it made such a simple error, scientific error I believe it was called, why would/should it be trusted with other truth claims?
What the study shows is that no such "error" was made.
You've often asserted that a such a primitive man wouldn't have written anything of the sort as it would be beyond their reason do so, these are after-all the very same people that could hardly remember to breath.

Concerning when the stars were made, when scientists come to a universal conclusion on how to date the stars we would be able to have a more interesting discussion concerning them. Yet it would still miss a very important point, what God would we be discussing?

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 07:30 PM
Actually that wasn't the point. The assertion was that the bible claims the moon creates it's own light. That since it made such a simple error, scientific error I believe it was called, why would/should it be trusted with other truth claims?
What the study shows is that no such "error" was made.
You've often asserted that a such a primitive man wouldn't have written anything of the sort as it would be beyond their reason do so, these are after-all the very same people that could hardly remember to breath.

Concerning when the stars were made, when scientists come to a universal conclusion on how to date the stars we would be able to have a more interesting discussion concerning them. Yet it would still miss a very important point, what God would we be discussing?

There's the dodge....and a MISS! :lol: Just busting your chops, Co! :D

Stars aren't made, they form. Remember that. If you want to label god as a natural process go right ahead, but that's all you've got honestly.

So which "god" do you want to talk about? I've read at least a little about most of them. Read a lot about some others (especially YHWH's precursors). I would assume we're talking about the desert tribal deity YHWH, though, since we're discussiing errors in a book dedicated to him. Right?

cobowhntr
April 24th, 2012, 07:32 PM
This is worth posting AGAIN.

You guys defending the Bible absolutely need to watch this before any more "inerrant" Bible claims come out. At least know what you're talking about first, OK?


I encourage you to research the guy you are presenting. In short he's been debunked.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 07:34 PM
I encourage you to research the guy you are presenting. In short he's been debunked.

No, he actually hasn't. He's just a non-believer now so you wish he was debunked.

Buster of Xs
April 24th, 2012, 07:35 PM
Here's the debunked dude again....

O-1hdqNDQ9E

DougKMN
April 24th, 2012, 08:38 PM
No, he actually hasn't. He's just a non-believer now so you wish he was debunked.

It's amazing how many people become Atheist after really READING the bible and/or going through the process of getting ordained. We even have at least one on these boards. When you really THINK about it, the Religion is a sham that is geared towards controlling people and stealing their money.

How many starving Ethiopians do you think could be fed for the cost of just ONE of the pope's golden-threaded frocks?