PDA

View Full Version : DNA owners: Tell me about your bow's valley



cuttingedge
December 10th, 2012, 10:49 PM
Got mine late last week. I tinkered with it a little, it's set up for hunting. It is fast, that's for sure, and it is a very accurate bow. However, it doesn't really seem to have any valley. Breathn has told me some things to try, which I will definitely, but I'm curious to here some owners opinions as to how they perceive the valley on their bows to be. Mine is set at 29" draw and 63 pounds. It is a 70 pound bow. All ears here...

moose00
December 10th, 2012, 10:54 PM
still familiarizing myself with archery terms, what does the valley refer to?

cuttingedge
December 10th, 2012, 11:08 PM
How much distance there is past the point of the cam breaking over into the let-off or holding weight before the draw stops contact the cables or limbs. Bows with a very short valley tend to want to shoot if you creep at full draw at all.

SECRETARIAT
December 10th, 2012, 11:40 PM
I couldnt shoot it if i were hunting! The first time i would take my attention off the bow and onto the deer the bow would have already creeped! Light, fast, and good looking but its not for me! People who shoot back tension releases seem to like it!

1vfib
December 11th, 2012, 08:46 PM
It just takes getting used to. I was twitchy at first, but since shooting it I could hold it in any hunting situation. Really helps hold on target. Just give it a little time.

cuttingedge
December 11th, 2012, 11:54 PM
After talking with John at John's Custom Archery, he said check the string and cable lengths. I did and they were all over 1/4" long from the factory. I corrected the lengths and did some tuning and it is much better. It actually has a valley now. I don't think you guys understand, this bow had ZERO valley. None. Worse than an Omen. When I got finished tweaking it after about 20 times in and out of the press, it's like a different bow. Draw length fits me better also.

I'm going to make new strings for it pretty soon, but I wanted to compare it right out of the box to my Bear Motive 6. Consequently, I didn't have to twist the cables or string on it at all, and haven't had to yet. I've had it since September 21. I think I'm going to do a head to head review of them both in a couple of weeks. Both will be switched to 60 pound limbs. I'll make the exact same string set for each, and use the same accessories and the same arrows. I think it will prove very interesting. For fun, I'll probably include the PSE HF 6 I got brand new a few months ago.

osoutfitters
December 11th, 2012, 11:59 PM
I set draw on mine at 29" and put the draw stops at 29.5". 70# max. Holds alot better and has more valley. Shoots fast and nice .

helix33
December 12th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Cam timing makes a big difference as well. If the cams are over rotated on this bow it makes the valley non-existent to say the least. Timed right it's not bad at all. I've also found that the more I shoot mine the more I like it. One other thing I've figured out while tuning this bow is that mine tuned much better with a stiffer spine arrow.

boomersooner23
December 13th, 2012, 11:05 AM
Please tell me the valley on the DNA is not like the 2011 Carbon element. I sold mine because the fuel cams had little to no valley. And yes my Element was tuned right it was way faster then its IBO but if you would creep at all it would try to take your arm off. I bought a 2012 DS Evo and it had a nice valley. And now I have a 65 LB. LH DNA on order. I hope I didn't screw up.

BP1992
December 14th, 2012, 05:50 PM
Anybody else?

blakeman
December 14th, 2012, 07:20 PM
Evo has a nice valley

mrp
December 14th, 2012, 07:26 PM
I set draw on mine at 29" and put the draw stops at 29.5". 70# max. Holds alot better and has more valley. Shoots fast and nice .

This makes a huge difference. Some how it seemed to improve the draw as well.

pit adder
December 14th, 2012, 08:09 PM
harsh would describe it ,prior to a string tweek and tune EXTRA LEAD ON DS ! it will rip your shoulder out if you blink ,BUT is got flames coming off it once shes tweeked !IMHO!

ToddB
December 14th, 2012, 08:53 PM
Please tell me the valley on the DNA is not like the 2011 Carbon element. I sold mine because the fuel cams had little to no valley. And yes my Element was tuned right it was way faster then its IBO but if you would creep at all it would try to take your arm off. I bought a 2012 DS Evo and it had a nice valley. And now I have a 65 LB. LH DNA on order. I hope I didn't screw up.


I had the 11 Element as well and yes the valley was very short, nice bow, valley was pretty much the same as the Omen I had at the same time, another great bow. The key to those bows was having your dl spot on if anything a ch short. Judging from the DNA's specs in the begining and now the reviews, I expect when my DNA gets here early next week the valley will be similar, maybe a hair longer. If your dl is on and you shoot pulling into the wall, creep shouldn't bother you to much. After a couple hundred arrows your muscle memory should kick-in. The speed from this little bow comes by way of aggressive short valley cams and low let-off, you just have to get used to shooting that style bow. If a bow like the DNA could do what it does and have the valley of an Elite, Holy Chit what a bow that would be, for me anyway. Some dudes shoot best with cams with little valley and low-let off and some won't. It's funny how people would expect a bow putting out this kind of speed to have a large valley. I think I have seen a couple for sale already for that reason. I like to shoot Elite bows too, and the valley on those bows is just stupid looong. Sometimes I think I start getting sloppy shooting them though. A bow like the DNA will keep me honest, that's for sure. I would bet the DNA is going to be a lot closer to the Omen than the EVO in the valley dept. I really liked the Omen, and am looking forward to the DNA!

ToddB
December 14th, 2012, 08:57 PM
Cam timing makes a big difference as well. If the cams are over rotated on this bow it makes the valley non-existent to say the least. Timed right it's not bad at all. I've also found that the more I shoot mine the more I like it. One other thing I've figured out while tuning this bow is that mine tuned much better with a stiffer spine arrow.

Where did you find the optimal staring point for rotation in relation to the timing marks to be?

talon1961
December 16th, 2012, 12:28 AM
I set draw on mine at 29" and put the draw stops at 29.5". 70# max. Holds alot better and has more valley. Shoots fast and nice .

Same here, but set mine at 29.5 dl and draw stops at 30". Weight at 65#. It draws so much better and the valley is awesome.

E. Johnson
December 16th, 2012, 09:28 AM
I just got my DNA a couple of days ago. The valley is a little short, but I'm going to give myself a couple weeks of shooting to see if I will adjust to it. I came from shooting a bow with 80% let off and a long valley so I have to adjust to something new. I think it's great that we have the option to change the valley/let off on the PSE, most bows you get what you get.

ibo73503
December 16th, 2012, 02:05 PM
for those o you stetting the draw stop 1/2inch longer to get a bit more valley, what is your actual draw length? I am a 29 so would I set the draw at 28 1/2 and stop at 29? sorry if this sounds stupid

Mr.On
December 16th, 2012, 07:18 PM
The valley is what it's advertised. The 70% will take a good bit of getting used to especially if you are coming from say and Elite bow or any other 80% plus let off bow.

If you try to shoot it at too long a dl you will hate it. I really suggest shooting the bow on the short side of your dl. It shoots like a dream when your dl is correct. Your form will be correct and your back muscles will be utilized correctly.

When I shot it at longer dl's it wanted to go bad.

Mr.On
December 16th, 2012, 07:20 PM
for those o you stetting the draw stop 1/2inch longer to get a bit more valley, what is your actual draw length? I am a 29 so would I set the draw at 28 1/2 and stop at 29? sorry if this sounds stupid

That's exactly correct. You will get about 3/8" of dl putting you close to 29" with that method.

cuttingedge
December 16th, 2012, 07:33 PM
The valley is what it's advertised. The 70% will take a good bit of getting used to especially if you are coming from say and Elite bow or any other 80% plus let off bow.

If you try to shoot it at too long a dl you will hate it. I really suggest shooting the bow on the short side of your dl. It shoots like a dream when your dl is correct. Your form will be correct and your back muscles will be utilized correctly.

When I shot it at longer dl's it wanted to go bad.

I'm plenty used to 70% let off, with my HF 6. My hope with the specs of this bow is that the draw would be similar to the HF cam, but it's not even close. I'm hopeful when my 60 pound limbs arrive it will be a bit different bow. I have it set on 60 pounds, but they are still 70 pound limbs. I found that if I timed the cams a bit lagged it provided a bit more valley. It lengthened the draw a bit, which is in contrast to ^^ this post. That is possibly due to the fact that most PSE's draw long and I'm used to that. With it a bit longer, I could get to the point where my back muscles were doing the work instead of my arms.

I'll chime back in on this when my 60 pound limbs and a set of my strings are on it.

167_12PT
December 16th, 2012, 08:41 PM
I have been hunting with a 70LB Evo and my Omen is at 65LB. If you like the power the bow delivers, you get use to the creep. Once you get use to it (and it does not take long), I feel like I have been shooting better.

I also put a Square Up torque indicator on my bows and can't stress how much I think this helps while shooting out of a tree stand. It insures your shots are as accurate as possible when you release the arrow at the buck of a life time, you can basically shoot from any position, standing on one foot bent over and if you are torquing your bow, you will know it. If you do not have a square up on your bow, you are basically guessing that you are in correct position to shoot.

dhom
December 16th, 2012, 09:54 PM
I have to say that I happen to like the short valley. There was a time when I shot bows with great big valleys that felt you had to push the string forward in order to let it down. I felt my arm was going to get ripped off with that style because of the way you had to let up and let up and then bam! The string would yank your arm. The short valley bows are IMO are much easier to let down compared to a big valley bow.

BP1992
December 19th, 2012, 09:37 PM
How does the valley compare to the 2010 Dream Season UF?

Pace
December 20th, 2012, 12:11 PM
The one we tested also had a short valley, which I wasn't used to and didn't really care for. So, we set the dl at 27 and the stops at 27.5. It became a completely different bow! Plenty of valley, let off is increased and it is amazing to shoot! We haven't put it on a crono so I'm not sure what that will do to the speed, but I don't care. I love it now!


Same here, but set mine at 29.5 dl and draw stops at 30". Weight at 65#. It draws so much better and the valley is awesome.

Andy.
December 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
Better than a hoyt fuel cam, just a touch shorter than a rkt cam. Pretty close to a helim.

I found it to have plenty of valley....but if you try to shoot too long of a DL then it is gonna suck.

Mr.On
December 22nd, 2012, 10:45 PM
After playing with the DNA for 3 days now I'm convinced this is the bow of the year if I had a vote!

The draw is so super smooth. The valley, albeit small, locks me in on target. The accuracy of the bow is incredible considering the 31" ata.

If you shoot the proper draw length the bow is very easy to shoot and dare I say it's very forgiving to shoot as well imo.

I am loving this shooting platform!

cuttingedge
December 23rd, 2012, 12:37 AM
I didn't want to, but I did it. I left my draw stops where they were and moved the modules in a letter. It has more valley than I want now, but that's better than no valley at all. It didn't change my impact point at 25 yards much at all.

What would be awesome is if there was an extra hole between 29" and 29.5" to move the stop to. I could set the mods at 29" and have what I believe would the optimum valley on this bow.

E. Johnson
December 23rd, 2012, 05:59 PM
Well I tried moving my stops up a notch to see what the valley and let off would be like. I shot for about 30 minutes and moved it right back to the 70% settings. I feel like I get lazy and don't hold hard into the stops on the higher settings. With it on the factory settings I hold on the stops a lot harder which makes me hold on target a lot better. This is sure one sweet shooting rig.

marc1980augrad
August 15th, 2013, 09:27 AM
OH MY!!! So happy I found this thread. I've been shooting my DNA for months now with both the mods and draw stop at 29.5".....I was getting used to having NO valley....but last night I moved my mods to 29".....AMAZING! There is a nice valley now and I can concentrate on aiming and release instead of focusing on holding the draw. Thanks to everyone here who suggested the modification!

tmorelli
August 15th, 2013, 11:18 AM
I set draw on mine at 29" and put the draw stops at 29.5". 70# max. Holds alot better and has more valley. Shoots fast and nice .

^^^this.

It's very common practice with the DNA to set the mods 1/2" shorter than the stops. This increases the valley and letoff to something the average hunter/archer is more used to. The shops around here are doing it by default when they set them up now.

Chopayne
August 15th, 2013, 11:54 AM
It does not have much of a valley. Personally I dont see the need for a valley, just keep your back tight and dont let yourself creep. Ive held my bow for quite some time on a target and the valley didn't matter to me, I haven't used it for hunting, so maybe seeing a buck and holding it, a valley may come into play, but I doubt it.

27.5" DL with ~65 DW, I plan on getting it moved up to 67.

Why are people complaining so much about the valley? Is it because you mistakenly let yourself creep? Or is it when you want to drawdown that it goes crazy? The former is the fault and doing of the shooter, the latter, you shouldn't be drawing down much anyways.

tmorelli
August 15th, 2013, 12:01 PM
It does not have much of a valley. Personally I dont see the need for a valley, just keep your back tight and dont let yourself creep. Ive held my bow for quite some time on a target and the valley didn't matter to me, I haven't used it for hunting, so maybe seeing a buck and holding it, a valley may come into play, but I doubt it.

27.5" DL with ~65 DW, I plan on getting it moved up to 67.

Why are people complaining so much about the valley? Is it because you mistakenly let yourself creep? Or is it when you want to drawdown that it goes crazy? The former is the fault and doing of the shooter, the latter, you shouldn't be drawing down much anyways.

Very few archers are going to shoot accurately without a valley. Repeatable accuracy in archery is an art of getting tension in the right places and just as importantly.... out of the wrong places. If a bow has little enough valley that an archer can't get the tension out of his arms, wrist, hands and fingers after the draw cycle, the result is trying to shoot through excess tension.... and the result of that is inaccuracy.

Truly good back tension requires the uninvolved muscle groups to be relaxed. Good follow through comes from a strong, relaxed shot. Good archers aren't really "ripping the stops off the bow".

Chopayne
August 15th, 2013, 12:18 PM
Hmm, but good archers won't let themselves creep will they?

tmorelli
August 15th, 2013, 12:25 PM
Hmm, but good archers won't let themselves creep will they?

Good form, proper setup and execution minimize it. But just about everyone is going to "creep" sometime to a varying degree. This is why we have creep tuning.

Chopayne
August 15th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Creep tuning? Never heard of it. I dont have too much problems with creep the past few times, but I am pulling hte bow back alot.

tmorelli
August 15th, 2013, 12:34 PM
Creep tuning? Never heard of it. I dont have too much problems with creep the past few times, but I am pulling hte bow back alot.

A search would give you plenty of info but basically it is a process of setting cam timing to minimize vertical point of impact error/change between "soft shots" and "hard shots" (how you set up in the wall). It is effective on dual, binary and hybrid cam bows.

Chopayne
August 15th, 2013, 12:43 PM
Ahh gotcha, thanks.

dillio67
August 16th, 2013, 06:08 PM
I didn't want to, but I did it. I left my draw stops where they were and moved the modules in a letter. It has more valley than I want now, but that's better than no valley at all. It didn't change my impact point at 25 yards much at all.

What would be awesome is if there was an extra hole between 29" and 29.5" to move the stop to. I could set the mods at 29" and have what I believe would the optimum valley on this bow.

Change the size of your draw stop to fine tune!

WEEGEE
August 16th, 2013, 11:17 PM
^^^this.

It's very common practice with the dna to set the mods 1/2" shorter than the stops. This increases the valley and letoff to something the average hunter/archer is more used to. The shops around here are doing it by default when they set them up now.

i just set mine like that ,and i like it better

dillio67
August 17th, 2013, 12:17 PM
just pull the rubber off your stops and try it

Chopayne
August 17th, 2013, 01:34 PM
Valley has never been an issue for me, I just keep my back tight. Though strangely after this conversation I went out and shot, and the worst day of my life in terms of shooting. I think I lost/forgot where my anchor point was.

dillio67
August 17th, 2013, 09:05 PM
After playing around with draw length positions and mods,I wasnt happy with how edgy the valley was at 28".Moving the mods to 27.5 felt horrble to me. I shoot 3d all year and my Supras are set up w the draw stops at 28 but the mods in 28.5 to increase my holding weight and less valley so I dont mind a smaller valley but this thing was crazy edgy.I shortened the DL and it was better only in the fact I was in the wall deeper but still a lil edgy for my liking......
I spent 4 hrs twisting and untwisting.I built a new set of strings and cables once I got the feel I liked.
Im not sure where my lengths ended up but I can tell you the bow makes poundage plus 2, draws exactly 1/2" long( F slot= 28" w the rubbers pulled off the stops)
This bow is now the smoothest drawing speed bow I think you could ask for with almost ZERO hump and perfect valley for me.
Cant put this thing down...It shoots crazy good!

DXT Buck Slayer
September 27th, 2013, 06:59 PM
I have mine maxed out at 70lbs, during normal practice it's pretty easy to draw and hold for long periods.

The only issue I ran into so far is when I hunt I like to draw while sitting down, the other morning when I was about to leave stand I did some draw practice sitting down at different angles, not quite as easy to draw, I got it back every time but felt like I struggled a bit while doing, not as smooth as I like. Once I got it back I could easily hold, it was just getting to that point while sitting down that was a little tough. I might just keep it where it is and practice sitting down while drawing a little more or I might lower the LBS a bit or maybe mess with the mods. I just don't want to lose much speed or have to adjust my sights.

How many lbs do you guys think I can lower it before I start losing to much speed and have to adjust my sights?

DXT Buck Slayer
September 28th, 2013, 07:25 PM
Thanks fellas! Yeah I'll just drop it down a few lbs and see if that makes a difference or not, then I'll shoot it and see if I lost much speed and make a decision.

Chopayne
September 29th, 2013, 03:09 AM
Thanks fellas! Yeah I'll just drop it down a few lbs and see if that makes a difference or not, then I'll shoot it and see if I lost much speed and make a decision.

I dont quite see any responses, but it looks like you got your answer. Yup drop it down. I can draw back 70 or 73, but I know that sitting down, it might be a bit difficult. Im at 65lbs, I think I may keep it there. Any chance anyone here has 65lbs they want to trade for 70lbs?