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BSM87
August 24th, 2014, 02:53 PM
Hey all!

I am new to archery and have been doing a ton of shopping around for a new compound bow to replace a 20 something year old Impact Plus XI I bought from a buddy. I am really interested in the Outlaw Black Ops or the Infinite Edge Black Ops. I like the blacked out look and the R.A.K. package and the price seems right for either. Can anyone please fill me in on the pro's and con's of either? Is there a 2014 version of the Outlaw or is this an older model from Diamond? Any information would be helpful on either bow.

What I know of the Outlaw from the research I have done so far is that when it was first produced it came with a shallow groove so the cable would fall out. I don't know if they have fixed the issue or if that problem still stands with current bows on the shelf. Also, I have read that the single cam on this particular bow is a bit rough compared to others, however, I have never shot a single cam bow so I doubt I will know the difference. Other than that, I haven't really found anything negative about the bow specifically, just to be careful on which distributor I get it from. Please let me know if this is accurate.

A few specs about me if it makes a difference:

26-26.5" draw
55-65 lb draw weight
I prefer the 80% let off
Never shot a single cam

Thanks!

Glenn58
August 24th, 2014, 06:30 PM
The Infinity is a nice bow. However if you've been shooting for a while I'd move up to this one... http://www.basspro.com/BlackOut-SS-Compound-Bow-Packages/product/1402210955448/ It's available in black too.

Basically an updated Outlaw built by Bowtech for BassPro. It's been getting good review here.

RAK package is really just very basic accessories to get you shooting when you walk out of the door. It's too bad they don't sell it as a "bare bow"! I replaced mine off my Outlaw fairly quickly.

deadduck357
August 24th, 2014, 07:01 PM
The Outlaw is a 2013 bow. There are still some one the shelves. The early ones did have a shallow cam but Diamond/Bowtech replaced when asked. The later runs had the newer/deeper cam. If your not a growing youth never mind about the IE. It's a good bow for its purpose. My 14 year old daughter shoots the hell out of hers. When she stops growing we will definitely get her a better bow. There are a couple other good options that are very affordable that are similar to the Outlaw. The Diamond Regulator is a very sweet bow, it is sold exclusively through Cabela's. The Diamond/Redhead Blackout SS is supposed to be one baddas bow, it's sold exclusively through Bass Pro shops. Either would be great. The Carbon Cure would also be a good possibility.

As far as single versus dual cams. Usually the singles are smoother drawing and the duals have higher speeds.

BSM87
August 24th, 2014, 09:29 PM
Thank you both for your quick responses and information.

Deadduck, I am definitely not a growing youth, lol. I'm 6' foot tall and 27 years old. I am looking into getting into the sport and am looking for a decent start up kit. Unfortunately I do not have a Bass Pro shop or a Cabelas near me anymore. I do happen to have a Gander Mountain and a Dick's Sporting Goods about twenty minutes from my house, however when I brought my new/old bow in to have it looked at, I found that the Archery scene is pretty foreign to the "Pro Staff." There was one female there that seemed to know quite a bit and helped me adjust what she could, but unfortunately the Dick's around here is not really equipped for setting up bows. She did refer me to another smaller store that is supposed to be really decent with bows and I will check them out.

I am looking for the $4-500 range, but really not higher than that for now as I am trying to purchase a couple bows, one for me and one for the wife. I will take a look at the recommendations you both made and see if I can find a store close by that might carry them.

Glenn58, aside from the entry level R.A.K. gear that came on your Outlaw, how do you like it? Is it pretty forgiving for a starter bow? Have you had any issues with it? Is it as fast a shooter as Diamond claims? As a noob I hear 330 fps is a pretty quick bow...

Thank you both!

Glenn58
August 25th, 2014, 10:57 AM
BSM87...I have nothing bad to say about the Outlaw. I use it to hunt, shoot 3D and indoor league. I've made a lot of changes to it, however the bow itself is a shooter. Shot a 278 at a 3D shoot yesterday. There are a few threads in this Diamond Discussion area where guys have discussed their thoughts on the Outlaw. As far as speed I'm shooting at 58 lbs/28.5 DL and with my 3D arrows it's probably shooting around 280. I have the materials to build a chronograph but just haven't had the time to put it together. The bow is probably as forgiving as any 32" ATA bow with a 7" brace height. With good form and grip it's accurate enough.

This bow is going to be my dedicated hunting rig. Shot a really nice doe last year and I don't see any reason to change what isn't broke!!!
I'm planning on getting a dedicated target/3D bow once the 2015 bows are announced. Obsession is pretty high on my list.

For the price range you mentioned I'd probably go for either the Cabela's Regulator or Bass Pro's Black Out SS. I believe the SS is the newer of the two and would be #1 on my list.

strausy
August 25th, 2014, 03:52 PM
I have a outlaw I bought three years ago. I agree only wish they came bare because I took all the rak stuff off to upgrade. I shoot myn alot and I love it

ARGB
August 25th, 2014, 06:20 PM
I love the Blackout SS. Damn good shooting bow and you can adjust the draw length with a wrench. No press or mods.

Rairdog
August 25th, 2014, 07:14 PM
IMO opinion you have a couple options. Go to Sportmans Direct (prob the little shop) and shoot some of their bows. Drive a little ways and shoot some other bows. Indy just plain sucks for options to shoot and techs. Find a bow that likes you and buy it used on here for your budget or buy a RAK and upgrade the components. I bought a Infinite for the woman and it's a sweet little shooter. For me....I could find a nice used bow decked on here that would be a much nicer shooter than upgrading a RAK.

kerrye
August 25th, 2014, 09:42 PM
Don't let any stuff about the IE make you shy away from it. Just because it can be adjusted down to what a ten year old could shoot doesn't make it a "beginners or womens" bow. I'm coming up on 72 years old and have been shooting for over fifty years. My first compound was an Allen bought from Mr. Allen at his shop in Billings, MO.
Dec. before last, I got rid of four old compounds and bought the IE and have been completely satisfied with everything about the bow. Yes, the rak package ain't the greatest. I replaced the sight and put on a drop away rest. The bow quiver is pretty serviceable. That being said, a bow that will set up to draw 30" at 70 lbs and tops 300 fps is a serious piece of equipment. About six weeks ago, I screwed up a perfectly good carbon maxx when my second shot at fifty yards went eight inches into the shaft of my first shot. :) About time I got a robin hood.

deadduck357
August 26th, 2014, 12:29 AM
Thank you both for your quick responses and information.

Deadduck, I am definitely not a growing youth, lol. I'm 6' foot tall and 27 years old. I am looking into getting into the sport and am looking for a decent start up kit. Unfortunately I do not have a Bass Pro shop or a Cabelas near me anymore. I do happen to have a Gander Mountain and a Dick's Sporting Goods about twenty minutes from my house, however when I brought my new/old bow in to have it looked at, I found that the Archery scene is pretty foreign to the "Pro Staff." There was one female there that seemed to know quite a bit and helped me adjust what she could, but unfortunately the Dick's around here is not really equipped for setting up bows. She did refer me to another smaller store that is supposed to be really decent with bows and I will check them out.

I am looking for the $4-500 range, but really not higher than that for now as I am trying to purchase a couple bows, one for me and one for the wife. I will take a look at the recommendations you both made and see if I can find a store close by that might carry them.

Glenn58, aside from the entry level R.A.K. gear that came on your Outlaw, how do you like it? Is it pretty forgiving for a starter bow? Have you had any issues with it? Is it as fast a shooter as Diamond claims? As a noob I hear 330 fps is a pretty quick bow...

Thank you both!

True, the big box stores have good deals but they pretty much suck for setting up or adjusting. A pro shop will cost a little more but it usually pays off with their experience and help of tuning.

deadduck357
August 26th, 2014, 01:17 AM
As for the Outlaw. It is a good bow. Know two guys that have them and they like them. One was an early model and he replace the cam with the new deeper cam. The other was a later run and already had the deep cam. Mostly any you find new on the rack would have the latest cam. They are discontinued but I have seen them still available on the racks but they are getting fewer. So if your thinking about getting one probably should do it soon. Most places I've seen them also have them on sale.

deadduck357
August 26th, 2014, 01:28 AM
Dick's also has the Diamond Fear No Evil bow on sale now for $450. IBO: 343 fps but a BH of 6.125". Faster than the Outlaw but a shorter BH. http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=20412006&lmdn=Brand&cp=4406646.4413993.4414427.441 4430

And YES, 330 is fast. Fast enough, especially for a single cam.

BSM87
August 27th, 2014, 11:23 PM
Thank you all for the feedback, that is all really useful information. I believe I found a decent Pro Shop here in Indy about 20 min from my house. Apparently they have an indoor range and an archery league and claim to be able to fix and adjust any make or model bow or crossbow. Hopefully they will have a few of these bows you guys are mentioning so I can try them out. For some reason I REALLY like the Outlaw, lol, I don't know what it is. The Blackout SS looks like a decent bow also. I guess I will just have to try a few out and see which one I like best.

Also, I took an older bow in I mentioned in an earlier post and attempted to pull it back while it was maxed out at 65 lbs. I have a buddy who is a lot smaller than I am who seemed to have no problem pulling it back while I seemed to struggle a bit. I'm assuming this will take some getting used to? I can take recoil from a rifle all day, but I refuse to let my bow make me look like a chump, lol!

Thank you all again

BSM87
August 27th, 2014, 11:32 PM
IMO opinion you have a couple options. Go to Sportmans Direct (prob the little shop) and shoot some of their bows. Drive a little ways and shoot some other bows. Indy just plain sucks for options to shoot and techs. Find a bow that likes you and buy it used on here for your budget or buy a RAK and upgrade the components. I bought a Infinite for the woman and it's a sweet little shooter. For me....I could find a nice used bow decked on here that would be a much nicer shooter than upgrading a RAK.

Rairdog, I noticed you live in Indy also. Are there any archery ranges around southern Indianapolis like around Greenwood or Franklin Twnshp that you know of? I have a decent size backyard but knowing my luck I'd clear my fence and wing a neighbor on accident :-(
Any info would be great.

Thanks

deadduck357
August 28th, 2014, 02:48 PM
If your looking at some pro shops you ought to try the Mission Ballistic. Its in your price range. Its fast, quiet, and accurate.

BSM87
August 28th, 2014, 08:13 PM
I dont remember seeing that brand in the sport shop deadduck. The place I went to seemed to carry some of the more popular brands like G5, Hoyt and Matthews. I found a few bows that shot really well and seemed to be comparable to the Outlaw. Do any of you have experience or knowledge of the Hoyt Charger or Ignite?

Thanks

Glenn58
August 28th, 2014, 10:27 PM
I dont remember seeing that brand in the sport shop deadduck. The place I went to seemed to carry some of the more popular brands like G5, Hoyt and Matthews. I found a few bows that shot really well and seemed to be comparable to the Outlaw. Do any of you have experience or knowledge of the Hoyt Charger or Ignite?

Thanks

If the shop sell Mathews then they'll sell Mission. Mission is a more affordable brand build by Mathews.
I had a Mathews MQ32 before buying my Outlaw. Personally I like the Outlaw much better.

BSM87
August 28th, 2014, 11:40 PM
Alright well its settled! I bought an Outlaw and am waiting for it to come in the mail. Im super excited and cant wait to get it set up and start launching some arrows. Thank you all for the advice and information. I hope I am as pleased with this bow as the rest of you. Will send updates and pics when I get it!

Thanks

scottiwad4
August 29th, 2014, 06:33 AM
Congrats on your new bow. I do have one concern though. You stated you are 6' tall and have a 26-26 1/2" draw. You may want to go and get that checked by someone that knows archery. Unless you have Tyrannosaurus Rex arms, I think you should be a bit longer of a draw. Probably closer to 29".

Glenn58
August 29th, 2014, 03:09 PM
Congrats...I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I have to agree with scotti...I'm 5-10 and have a 28.5 DL.

BSM87
August 30th, 2014, 01:35 PM
Scottiwad and Glenn, I went into Dicks Sporting Goods and had one of the "Archery Pro's" gauge my draw length. She had me pull back an arrow with measurements on it using a recurve bow if I remember correctly, so I don't know if that makes a difference. She said I measured at 26 or 26 1/2", I don't remember exactly which. But when I get this new bow adjusted, I will have a real pro shop make the adjustments and re-measure everything just to be safe. Unfortunately if these measurements are not correct, she has already cut my first set of arrows to match what I was pulling in the store. The bow measures between 26"-30" for draw length so as long as I'm not outside those I should be okay, right?

Thank you both for bringing this to my attention

deadduck357
August 30th, 2014, 03:04 PM
You can simply determin your DL by standing with your back against a wall and stretch out your arms. Have someone else mark from tip of middle finger to tip of other middle finger. Then measure. Take that measurement and devide by 2.5 and you have your DL. Now this is a rough DL and may fit but thats a starting point. You can adjust up or down from there. Some bows require more some require less.

scottiwad4
August 30th, 2014, 08:03 PM
Scottiwad and Glenn, I went into Dicks Sporting Goods and had one of the "Archery Pro's" gauge my draw length. She had me pull back an arrow with measurements on it using a recurve bow if I remember correctly, so I don't know if that makes a difference. She said I measured at 26 or 26 1/2", I don't remember exactly which. But when I get this new bow adjusted, I will have a real pro shop make the adjustments and re-measure everything just to be safe. Unfortunately if these measurements are not correct, she has already cut my first set of arrows to match what I was pulling in the store. The bow measures between 26"-30" for draw length so as long as I'm not outside those I should be okay, right?

Thank you both for bringing this to my attention
I'm sure the bow will work out fine. The arrows , I'm not so confident of. since it was one of their " pros" that mis-measured you should be able to take them back. You'll know better once you get correctly measured. For future reference, big box stores such as dicks don't typically have knowledgeable people in their archery departments. To find a good shop in your area , you may want to post a thread in the general archery and bowhunter showcase sections of this forum.

BSM87
September 1st, 2014, 11:25 AM
Thanks deadduck and Scottiwad. I will take the new bow to the pro shop I found. They seem to know what they are talking about and should be able to help.

msgtdan
September 10th, 2014, 02:57 PM
I have a Fugitive which is basically the same as an Outlaw with minor spec differences. One thing with both bows is the draw stop is thin and tends to wear on the serving at the cam. There are a couple of fixes for it, one is an aftermarket stop and another is to replace the stop with an allen screw. Both fixes are here in the manufactures forum.