Arrow weight chart.. I dont get it.

[brianwalkera]

I bought a new 50#bear grizzly bow, And i bought those read head, carbon fury arrows they are 4560's. On the back of the box they have a chart, one of them is titled adjustedbow draw weight. And i cant figure it out. Oh and another problem i have no idea really what weight arrow i should be shooting in the first place, just kinda guessing. I also bought 4 inch feather style fletching. Basicly im just trying to figure out what is the best weight to try to acheive, with all different aspects of the arrow, for example you have the shaft, nocks, inserts, points, fletch, just wondering how to balance all these things out to have an arrow that is pleasant to shoot. Thanks.

[Viper1]

brian -

I know nothing about those arrows. As long as the "adjusted bow weight" includes stickbows, then in theory 4560s should be in the ball park. If you're new at this and the arrows aren't coming out sideways, you should be OK. As you get better and begin tuning, then you'll be able to figure out what you have to do to make then really work.

Regarding weight, the total arrow weight should be between 8 - 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight, meaning if you have a 28" draw, then the arrow should weight between 400 and 500 gr.

Viper1 out.

[brianwalkera]

Do you know how many grains 3 feather fletches at 3 inches, an insert and knock would be. Because if im adding it right it say's on the box 10 rains per inch. So if im shooting 29 inche's of arrow then my arrow weight is 290 grains and im shooting a 125 grain field tip. So that adds up to 415. Basicly im just wondering about the other things, is that included in the weight, the fletch and the knock and the insert. Thanks.

[PineLander]

I just weighed (3) 4" feathers, aluminum point insert, and a 3D nock....
they weigh 37 grains altogether, so add that to the shaft and point wieght.

[brianwalkera]

Okay i got everything together and i am shooting like 445 grains altogether and i noticed when im shooting them the arrow wag's a little, like when it's flying i can see fletch end of the arrow kicking to the right and then straightning out before it hits the target is that normal?

[PineLander]

You have to provide some basic information to recieve help. Are you LH or RH shooter? Are you shooting off the shelf? What is your draw length? Are you new to shooting recurves? Do you have any aluminum arrows?

You're going to have to do some experimenting with length of shaft and/or point weight of shaft to get the arrow tuned properly. Also need to look at how the arrow is coming off the rest (or shelf). If shooting off shelf, have you placed a raised area on the shelf for least amount of arrow contact?

[J. Wesbrock]

You may want to bareshaft tune your bow. That'll tell you exactly what's happening. There's a great tutorial at...

www.bowmaker.net

[brianwalkera]

Im right handed i have a 50# grizzly recurve carbon arrows and draw length of 28inch. And yes i am new to shooting recurves. Sorry i did'nt get that info in the 1st post.

[brianwalkera]

I also did do some experimenting with different weight feild tips and arrow length, But the arrow pretty much flyed the same. I started out with a 125 field point and a 30 inch arrow, and then switched around field points 75 100 and 125 grain, nothing changed. I cut the arrows about 2 inches and did the same with the field points, nothing changed. It must be something im doing. I dont understand what you mean with the raised shelf, i did spin the knocks on the arrows so that the fletch would have one coler on the left and 2 fletches of equel color on the top and bottom of right side of arrow. Do you think that it might be the way im releasing the string? I use a tab not a glove. Thanks for all the help guys. I really really apreciate it.

[Viper1]

brian -

Visually inspecting the arrow flight, or even the point of impact at 20 yds may not tell you much. The fletching has had enough time to correct any inconsistencies. Try the same experiement with a bareshaft (no feathers) or two, think you'll see a difference. I have a #60 Martin Lynx that will shoot anything with feathers from 1916s to 2117s into the same group at 20 yds, however bareshafting tells a very different story.

BTW - the standard method for tuning carbon is by arrow length, but I'd try playing with brace height and degree of offset from centershot first. It's just easier and can yield more dramatic results.

Viper1 out.

[brianwalkera]

When i was test fireing The arrows i was at 10 yards then moved back to 15. And i noticed at the shorter distance the arrow did'nt have time to straighten out. I will try the bare shaft thing. Oh and by the way that www.bowmaker.net Was real informative on arrow flight. Thanks.

[Abel]

Your arrows are probably too stiff. If the tail is kicking out to the right, then the arrow will probably want to take a left turn before it hits the target. If you are right handed, that means your arrows are too stiff. Try adding 150 or 200 grains up front....or shooting a longer shaft. These two operations weaken spine and will help the arrow to be more straight, sooner after leaving the riser after you release. The next time you buy arrows, go with something less stiff, like a Carbon Express Heritage 150. I like to go ahead and add the 100 grain brass inserts (instead of the light aluminum ones that come with the arrows) before I start tuning. I leave the shaft full length and without feathers. In theory, my first shots will be too weak, meaning that I'll need to trim 1/4" of shaft off until I get good bare shaft flight. Then I add feathers and shoot again to make sure everything is ok as far as flight. If that first "test arrow" works out, I'll repeat the process on test arrow numer two. If it works out again, I'll cut and fletch the remaining ten arrows to look exactly like the first two. Good luck.

[PineLander]

If you cut 2" off the arrows and nothing changed, they were probably too stiff to begin with. But everyone is correct... bareshafting tells the story, but be careful and have plenty of backstop. At 20 yards an extremely incorrect-spined shaft can curve off the intended target area pretty quickly.

What I mean by raised shelf, the Bear Grizzly's shelf is flat as a pancake (at least the older ones were, don't know about the newer ones). Try placing a piece of wooden match stick under the shelf rug perpendicular to the riser so that it creates a small raised area where the arrow rides atop a little mountain, so to speak. It won't fix an incorrectly-spined arrow, but at least it will clean up the arrow launch a bit without having to raise your nock set so high. When attempting to shoot off a totally flat shelf, it's usually necessary to raise your nocking point pretty high.

[Viper1]

Piney -

"If you cut 2" off the arrows and nothing changed, they were probably too stiff to begin with."

If you cut off 2" and nothing changed, then spine ain't the problem; something else is a foot! :p

:darkbeer:

Viper1 out.

[PineLander]

You know what I meant.... stiff to stiffer, probably the same ol' waggling going on. I suppose if 2" had been added to the end of that shaft, same no-change might have ocurred. Can't find the instructions for adding length though.
:darkbeer:

Is that kool-aid or beer? LOL

[Viper1]

Dave -

If you shortened an already too stiff arrow, the paper tears or bareshaft results should get worse. If you make a drastic change to the tuning parameters and don't get the expected results, better or worse, then you have to start looking for other factors, that's all I'm saying.

With new shooters, I'm suggesting that unless the arrows are flying sideways, they don't worry about tuning, until they can hold consistant 4" groups at a minimum of 10 yds. Without that, the greatest variable is the shooter.

Viper1 out.

[brianwalkera]

Ok here's the deal the arrows were 32 and a half inches i cut them down to 28 inches sorry about that i had to look on the box, to see how long the shafts were. Oh and as far as the spine i dont understand how to identify an arrow and know its spine. For example im shooting a 4560 redhead arrow and there's other sizes out there in 2000 and so on but what does that mean to me could'nt you have an arrow in the 2000s that has a stiff spine. Oh and here's the chart on the back of the box, now remember im shooting a 50# bear grizzly. with a 28 inch draw.



Shaft Selection Chart
Draw Wt. Shaft Size
(lbs.) 26" 27" 28" 29" 30" 31" 32"
46-51 4560 4560 4560 4560 4560 4560 6075
52-57 4560 4560 4560 4560 4560 6075 6075
58-63 4560 4560 4560 4560 6075 6075 6075
64-69 4560 4560 6075 6075 6075 6075 6075
70-75 4560 6075 6075 6075 6075 6075 6075
76-81 6075 6075 6075 6075 6075 6075

[MarkH]

My experience from testing arrows on a deflection tester is that a 45/60 shaft will have a deflection of .400 on 28" span. See if one of your buddys has a couple Beman ICS 500s, Easton epic or excel 500s, or aluminum 2016s to test.

[brianwalkera]

The strangest thing happend yesterday, i had been shooting my bow straight up like i do my compound and then i tryed tilting my bow to the side when shooting, and the arrow's flew straight. I dont understand it but it works. Any body know why?

[brianwalkera]

Breaker one nine can i get a come back. Over and out.

[Viper1]

brian -

Can't tell from here. Msot people don't cant properly. When they cant, their draw lenght shortens, sometimes by over an inch. That changes the draw weight and powerstroke. If your arrows were a touch soft, the difference might be enough to make them act stiffer. The trick when canting is not to change the shoulder geometry, that by definition limits the amount you can cant before you throw your tuning off.

The other thing could be compensating errors. You might be torquing the string one way and not the other. No way of telling without seeing what your doing.

Viper1 out.

[brianwalkera]

Thats cool i appreciate the help, in time i will gain all the knowledge i need you guys have helped alot. Im hopeing to meet up with some traditional guys around town here, im trying to make to some of the 3d shoots. I'd say that would be a lot of help because they could see if im doing something wrong. Thanks.

[SteveB]

How did the tuning go from the methods at http://www.bowmaker.net/ ?

Follow it exactly and you will learn more then anyone here can tell you remotely - or at least give the feedback needed to help.


Steve