October 30th, 2009, 05:25 PM
The New Angle Compensating Rangefinders
Can someone speak to the validity in having an angle compensating rangefinder? I sort of see this product as a gimmick, but I've also shot over the back of 2 does so far this year. So now I'm having second thoughts. Any help on whether I should be using one of these would be appreciated.
God is Faithful
October 30th, 2009, 06:10 PM
They work, but the compensation for treestand hunters isn't all that much. Unless, you're 200yds. up a tree. The difference is only 2-3"max for most situations. Just use the Pathagorean Theorem to get an idea of the difference between actual distance and line of sight distance.
A² + B² = C²
A= Actual Distance
C= Line of Sight Distance
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October 30th, 2009, 06:27 PM
I read lots of threads about this, as I was researching. most of them all simplified it down to what Gary says... yes, they work, but at 'nominal' treestand heights and in bow range, with modern bows, the difference in aim point is trivial.
Originally Posted by GaryZ
A 15 yard shot on level ground, is a 15.8 yard shot, from a 15 foot high treestand. Do you really aim much different on a 15 yard shot than a 16?
It more boils down to picking correct aim point for the elevated position, than it does the distance difference (which is all the rangefinder will tell you).
Longer shots, more varied terrain, and for rifle hunting in that terrain, is where the angle and elevation differences really come into play.
October 30th, 2009, 06:29 PM
They work fine...for field and uphill/downhill 3D...but for practical purposes...hunting shots needing this kind of technology is moot. Most of your hunting shots out to 40 yards or so will not be off by more than 2 yards...minimal in the real world...unless you are shooting like the ads for these things...straight up or down and sitting 70 feet up in a tree on the edge of a cliff...invest your money in some practice and pick a spot and follow through. Good luck.
October 30th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Just use the search function and you will quickly find plenty of reading material. It does make a difference, but in the majority of hunting situations it does not make much of a difference.
October 30th, 2009, 06:40 PM
If range finder can function and will be used for more than bow hunting, I think it is worth the money. As others have said, hunting out of a tree in somewhat flat terrain with shots of 40 yds and under, there is less of a need for it.
October 30th, 2009, 07:37 PM
my two misses have been a 40 yd shot with me 20 foot up and a 30 yard shot with me 30 foot up. The last one I was right on the vitals and didn't even hit the deer!!!
God is Faithful
October 30th, 2009, 08:04 PM
why would you feel the need to get 30 feet up in a tree?
Originally Posted by double drop
October 30th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Most high shots from treestands have more to do with deer / animals reacting to the shot than they have to do with shooting a longer yardage than necessary.
Most treestand hunting hunting from 15 - 20 ft heights will only lead to shooting the distance a yard or two longer than it's true ballistic range. So if you shoot the shot as 22 yards rather than 20 or 21 it will matter little.
The Arc / TBR range finders will become more valuable in determining the true distance when both shot angle and shot distances increase. A 40 yard shot where the terrain falls off dramatically will result in a larger gap between ranged distance to target and the true ballistic range. Here your standard rangefinder might say 40 yards where you should shoot the target for 35. Here the ARC /TBR rangefinder can make a difference in preventing the high shot, but unless you hunt out west where this is more common, the angle compensating rangefinders are not much help.
I hunt the east and recently upgraded to a Leica that did not have the ARC fucntion as superior optics are of more value to me.
Hunt Safe !!! ...
October 30th, 2009, 08:06 PM
If you hunt flat terrain they will be of no use to you. However if you hunt in the mountains like I do there can be a big difference in yardage. I have a stand on the uphill side of a trail and straight line distance is 30 yards but actual distance is only 22 yards. So yes there are times it makes a difference but you usually need more than a 40 degree angle.
October 30th, 2009, 08:24 PM
I too like to climb high and I wouldn't be without my Leupold with TBR. I had a 27 yard shot the other day and the rangefinder told me to shoot for 23, so imagine if it would have been a longer shot. If you are going to buy one, get one with the angle compensating, you'll regret it if you don't and there isn't a big price difference on most models anyways. Heck, everybody already admitted that it makes a difference, however small it may seem to some. Those of us that climb high need to be dead on cause of the steep angle, could mean the difference between a heart shot and your arrow givin the deer a hair cut on its back! Just my .02!
There is no sense in putting what kind of bow I shoot here, cause it is constantly changing
October 30th, 2009, 08:32 PM
actually IMO most treestand shots are missed due to dropping your bow arm instead of bending at the waist to aquire your target
Originally Posted by skyhunter
I have an ARC and think it will be way more useful in longer range gun than bow...rarely more than +/- 1-2yds in a normal situation.
if you have a high stand over a ravine where you would shoot an extreme angle it might make a difference but don't know that yet
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October 30th, 2009, 08:43 PM
If you're concerned with the angle, range some trees at your maximum distance at both the base and at a height that is level with you. You would use the distance from the the height that is level with you, not the base of the tree. You won't find much difference in distance anything short of 30 yards.
November 1st, 2009, 12:39 PM
The distance makes no difference it is the amount of the angle that makes the difference. If you have more than a 40 degree angle their will be a significant difference in the straight line distance vs. the actual distance. I have a stand on the uphill side of a trail and straight line distance is 30 yards but actual distance is only 22 yards. So yes there are times it makes a difference but you usually need more than a 40 degree angle.
Originally Posted by JakeInMa
November 1st, 2009, 12:54 PM
I got the angle compensation on my rx1000 but I did not get that part for bowhunting I rifle hunt every now and then and when you are looking at a 300 yd shot on a elk with an incline or decline this can really help.
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November 1st, 2009, 01:03 PM
If you take some range reading at the base of the tree, before climbing up, it will give you the same basic information. I think the majority of deer missed (high) from an elevated position are the result of the deer ducking or a form issue in shooting downhill.
November 1st, 2009, 01:17 PM
I discussed this with an engineer way back in the 1960's and he told me that on a 45 degree angle I would shoot as much high as the mid range trajectory of the distance being shot, whether I was shooting up or down.
November 2nd, 2009, 10:54 AM
I agree with that, especially the deer drop part.
I think the majority of deer missed (high) from an elevated position are the result of the deer ducking or a form issue in shooting downhill.
Interesting. That would mean if you had that 45 angle on a 30 yard shot then you have to 1st know what this "mid range trajectory" would be.
Originally Posted by WyoJim
For arguments sake for me (slow bow) I guess that at 30 yards my 15 yard trajectory would be about 8" over my line of sight. So if I ranged that 30 yard target at that 45 angle and shot it for 30 then I might shoot 8" high. Sounds reasonable; though I am rarely shooting at that angle at a distant target. Now that 45 angle won't matter much when the target is 5-10 yards from my tree.
Hunt Safe !!! ...
November 2nd, 2009, 11:14 AM
I too purchased the leupold 1000 TBR and yes the changes in distance is very minor but it makes me feel better i guess knowing the true distance. My bow shoots one pin to 30 yrds so it serves no major purpose for me. However like others i also use it during the firearm season where it works AWESOME!
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November 2nd, 2009, 12:35 PM
Just some more food for thought. I live and hunt in WV and the area I hunt is very, very steep.
This past Thursday I was hunting one of my treestands, it is about 28' up the tree but the trail I am watching from this stand in well below the base of the tree because of the steepness of the mountain. I ranged the trail I was watching and it read 32 yards. Before I go out of the stand I used my practice arrow to shoot a leaf in the trail and holding my 30 yard pin dead on I was high by several inches. I climbed down, got my arrow and tried again, held my 20 yard pin dead on and hit perfect.
I really do not think you have to shoot extreme distances to make a big difference if you are shooting in very steep terrain.
What are your thoughts on this?
Note: I always carry one arrow with a field tip on it to shoot from my stand before I get down. I think
its good practice and builds confidence at each stand location.
Yes my broadheads and fieldtips shoot exactly the same.
November 2nd, 2009, 02:07 PM
I don't know if my thoughts are of any merit but here it is. The actual distance your range finder gives is accurate. It's just the gravitational pull is different at different angles which would have an effect on the arrow flight. With this in mind, the actual distance is what the range finder says it is but since you're shooting along with some of the gravitational force instead of your typical 90 degree angle it will shoot like a shorter distance. This is why I don't believe the path. theorem will be of any use here. Please correct my speculations if I'm way off.
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November 2nd, 2009, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by hoytavenger89
I don't know how far up in a tree you are shooting but i don't believe the gravatational pull is any diffrent at 20 feet then on the ground. At least it shouldn't be diffrnet enough to warrent a compensation.
November 2nd, 2009, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by rachunter
This is one of the few instaces where a comensating range finder is extremely helpful. I don't know the exact elevation change but it may have been 60' in your case. If that is the case the actual distance is 25 yards not 32. Probably a deiffrence of several inches. But for "most" tree stand hunting there shouldn't be that much diffrence. It may have been mentioned on here before but there was an ad that was in some hunting mags advertising one of these, not sure the brand, and with the numbers they were giving the hunter was almost 70' up in a tree acording to the pic. I think they could be helpful and even if it doesn't make a diffrence but gives the shooter the confidence then i say go for it. A lot of times however guys shoot high and attribute it to range when sometimes it is a result of bad form and not bending at the waist to make a shot. It is super important to practice in simulated hunting conditions, clothes elevation the whole 9 yards
November 2nd, 2009, 02:42 PM
Were these shots on level ground or was there also elevation change? do you practice from and elevated postion? Do you know if you maintained your shooting form during these shot. As many have mentioned, in the heat of the moment it is very easy to drop the bow arm instead of bending at the waist to make a shot.
Originally Posted by double drop
November 2nd, 2009, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Brandon324
I'm not a scientist but I would venture to say that when shooting at a downward angle, your arrow is already falling faster than gravity can pull it, therefore it is not acted upon the same way as a horizontal shot even though the gravitational force is the same.
There is a difference, as has been proven by many hunters.
I think there certainly is some validity to the statement made by MOPARDLVR4406 that most shots are missed due to the hunter dropping his/her arm instead of bending at the waist when making a shot from a tree stand. This all boils down to practice.
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