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Thread: New Asian Bino/Optics Companys

  1. #1

    New Asian Bino/Optics Companys

    The quality of optics we are seeing in the past 5-10 is phenomenal. I would venture to say that the big 3 europeon optics companies are going to take a sever beating over the next several years. It's become PAINFULLY obvious that there are numerous optics companies that are producing products that are so close in optical quality to the big three that it is driving the value of those european made optics into a hole. Zen Ray, Meopta, and Hawke all come to mind. When you can buy a Zen Ray EDII for just over $400 that is so optically close to a ZeissSwaroLeic that there is practically no difference its got to be damaging to those Euro-optics companies.

    The bottom line is...........hold off buying those high end optics. They'll be available in the near future for dimes on the dollar.

    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius


  2. #2
    I was thinking about that as my Vortex say made in Japan on them, now if it was China or Taiwan i'd be worried, he,he.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by vichris View Post
    The quality of optics we are seeing in the past 5-10 is phenomenal. I would venture to say that the big 3 europeon optics companies are going to take a sever beating over the next several years. It's become PAINFULLY obvious that there are numerous optics companies that are producing products that are so close in optical quality to the big three that it is driving the value of those european made optics into a hole. Zen Ray, Meopta, and Hawke all come to mind. When you can buy a Zen Ray EDII for just over $400 that is so optically close to a ZeissSwaroLeic that there is practically no difference its got to be damaging to those Euro-optics companies.

    The bottom line is...........hold off buying those high end optics. They'll be available in the near future for dimes on the dollar.
    I'm sorry but your crazy. The new Swaro EL class is better than ever. You can even see the difference between the 2009 to the 2010. These other company's can be in an alsoran category but people need to stop trying to say that these other optics are so close that you need not spend the extra money. It's like saying a Honda is 95% of a Mercedes. That extra five percent is what makes all the difference. Vortex Razor's for $769 are great glass and have an even better warranty, But they don't hold a lit candle to the big 3. Maybe a candle but not a lit candle. Don't get me started on China glass. Have you seen the news lately about how they produce our dog food and kids toys. It's all about finding way's to fake it with manufacturing. The big 3 don't fake it. They use the best to build the best and charge accordingly.
    Hunt hard. Pick a spot.

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    Lightbulb It's not just the glass.

    The average hunter has no idea how well made Leica binoculars are.
    Let's say, Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss all rate a 10 in optics.
    Construction wise, Leica is still a 10, Swarovski is an 8 and Zeiss is a 7.
    All the chepos from China, Korea, and Taiwan don't remotely come close to Leica's construction.
    So, you might have some great optics in the Zen Rays but compaired to Leica their construction is very much inferior.
    Construction is every bit as important as optics to me !
    BTW, I own Swarovski and rate them highly but they're no Leica.
    Bowman Accu-Riser I and II...Greatest built American bows of all time
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    Quote Originally Posted by vichris View Post
    The bottom line is...........hold off buying those high end optics. They'll be available in the near future for dimes on the dollar.
    I have 2 pair of Swarovski's and one pair is over 10 years old already and I could sell them for more than what I paid for them then. If we are both still around here in another 10 years let me know which one can be purchased for pennies on the dollar!
    You get what you pay for in optics as well as any other product.
    When in doubt, show up early. Think less. Feel more. Ask once. Give thanks often. Expect the best. Appreciate everything. Never give up. Make it fun. Lead. Invent. Regroup. Wink. Chill. Smile. And live as if your success was inevitable, and so it shall be.
    Good Luck hunting to all..

  6. #6
    I think Hawke is going to be the next big Optic comp in the states.The products are shockproof,waterproof and warranted for life.If you pick any hawk product and compare it to another brand that cost way more you will see no difference at any light.Take a good look at the hawkes and you will find that they will sell there selves. http://www.hawkeoptics.com/us/
    David Bush of
    No Limits Outdoors Prostaff

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GSLAM95 View Post
    I have 2 pair of Swarovski's and one pair is over 10 years old already and I could sell them for more than what I paid for them then. If we are both still around here in another 10 years let me know which one can be purchased for pennies on the dollar!
    You get what you pay for in optics as well as any other product.
    Better sell them quick and get your investment back then. The gig is up,..... in two or three years when EVERYBODY has figured it out you'll be kicking yourself for not selling before the "Bubble burst" (like alot of home owners who bought when the market was at its peak).

    BTW this is NOT my own personal opinion. Its pretty well known in the "optics world" but being talked about in hushed tones. All I'm saying is now is NOT the time to be buying anything from the Big 3. It will be available at a much better price point soon and the market for used optics from the big three is going to be heating up. You might have already noticed some great deals on used and even some new stuff. The discount wars are just getting started.

    Don't say you all big 3 owners haven't been warned.
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushnlo View Post
    I think Hawke is going to be the next big Optic comp in the states.The products are shockproof,waterproof and warranted for life.If you pick any hawk product and compare it to another brand that cost way more you will see no difference at any light.Take a good look at the hawkes and you will find that they will sell there selves. http://www.hawkeoptics.com/us/
    SMB

  9. #9
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    Just checke dout hawke- appear to have alot of that tactical scope kind of stuff- but very limited in terms thorough of reviews

    Vortex- some is chinese, some is japan. My vipers are amazing. The quality of them is only superceded by that of Vortex customer service. Second to none imo.

    Zen Ray- best bang for your buck from an optical perspective (some pun intended). They really are that good. They appear and feel much cheaper than the vortex or any euro stuff- but opticlaly theyre amazing (and a bargain). Not sure about their cs- but i know i sent them an email midweek last week and have herad nothing back yet.

    My limited Swarovski experience has me very impressed- but your getting, and paying for, the total package. No idea if they would have handled my scratched objective lenses as well as Vortex did either.

    Just my $0.02 though.....
    Green and growing or ripe and rotting?
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowflngr View Post
    I remember being "warned" of the same thing for the last couple years, yet the Big 3 keep growing and improving at the same rate.
    If its so amazing why is it "being talked about in hushed tones"?
    Im sorry but your about the only person Ive EVER heard make it sound the way you do, and I check a bunch of birding forums and optic reviews.
    Thats because you only hear what you want to hear. It's being talked about in Hushed tones by dealers and the Mfgs themselves.

    You've already got your mind made up Arrowflngr. I'm not addressing you. But there are lots of others here who would like to know and not get stuck over paying for something they'll be able to get at a huge discount in the near future.

    Thanks for your input though Arrowflngr. We are all entitled to our own opinions,............ even if it wrong.
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  11. #11
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    Regardless of the quality of the european manufacturers most people can't justify paying more for binoculars than they did their bow and all the accessories. There is just a point of diminishing returns.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlotto28 View Post
    Regardless of the quality of the european manufacturers most people can't justify paying more for binoculars than they did their bow and all the accessories. There is just a point of diminishing returns.
    most guys cant differentiate good from bad optics because they have only used (if they even use) some cheap $20, 20 yo pair. One thing I NOW agree with is good optics are never regretted. That being said I am not looking to spend $1500 on binocs- my 500 seem to be doing all i need at this point
    Green and growing or ripe and rotting?
    Obsession Evolution 60#
    Lone Wolf & Millenium stands, Gray Wolf Woolens- Predator Camo, Zen Ray & Vortex Optics, MBG Rush, ProV, Easton DOA, Grim Reaper 1 3/8" heads

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vichris View Post
    Thats because you only hear what you want to hear. It's being talked about in Hushed tones by dealers and the Mfgs themselves.

    You've already got your mind made up Arrowflngr. I'm not addressing you. But there are lots of others here who would like to know and not get stuck over paying for something they'll be able to get at a huge discount in the near future.

    Thanks for your input though Arrowflngr. We are all entitled to our own opinions,............ even if it wrong.
    It not really over paying for Swaro quality. And that statement is coming from a bargain bin Bushnell user. For applications I currently use bino's for, a small set of bushnells more than do the job. If I were to go out on a long Elk hunting trek in open country I would have the absolute best I could afford.

    The big three have been in business a long time. Their business model doesn't even try to cater to people like me who are scoping large targets at short distances. Doesn't hurt my feelings in the least. The other companies you mentioned may have a great value for their product but those companies are trying to pull people in my buying a category up a little rather than trying sincerely to go after consumers of the high end optics companies.

    It is good marketing for them though everytime someone compares how close they are to Zeiss for so much less money because it does tempt someone in my buying range to jump up a little and give the "high end quality for low end price" a try.

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    Sorry guys but I cant tell the differance between my $20 Simmons and my brothers Swarovsky ,that he wont tell me how much he paid for because he knows ill use it against him.His wife has no idea how much he spends on toys. The biggest differance he keeps his in a case and is afraid he will scratch them .Mine set on the console of my truck and are used constantly.
    Which is the better optic .
    Mike

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowflngr View Post
    Side by side the Zen Ray EDII to Victory RFs the ZenRay is like a Honda accord, good car, works well, but Zeiss or the other 2 euros are Mercedes', EVERY aspect of them are inferior in craftmanship, and construction. PERIOD.
    Vortex has been around many years now with a far better warranty than ZenRay and it hasnt effected the Big 3 price one bit.
    Dont fall for a staffies "the sky is falling" Hype, I paid the money to compare and it was a waste of the shipping money, Like I said if one is on a budget get Vortex, its the same as ZenRay with a much better warranty.
    LOL....... "Staffie".......... thats really funny. I wonder how many of the regular guys on this forum drive around in a beemer or mercedes.

    Ya take Arrowflngs advice........most people have nothing to lose right

    I notice you have NOTHING to say about the other two (Hawke and Meopta) and I seriously doubt you even spent the money to check out the Zen Rays. If you did you wouldn't be talking sh*t. I won't say much about his comparison to Vortex since they are an advertiser here. But suffice it to say there have been plenty of comparisons. Vortex is not in the same league. Dont take my word for it check out Monster Muleys Optics page or better yet check out Optics Talk Bino page here.......opticstalk.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=9
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm83164 View Post
    Sorry guys but I cant tell the differance between my $20 Simmons and my brothers Swarovsky

    Which is the better optic
    You're joking right? Even my 9 year old daughter can see the difference between different binos. The $20 Simmons wouldn't even make it to the table.

    It basically comes down to how much you use them. If you look through them once a day or pull them out of the drawer once a year for 10 minutes.....then it really doesn't matter what you get. But I guarantee you, you would not want to be sitting behind those $20 Simmons for 6 hours a day. Your head and eyes would hurt so bad that you'd be ready to launch them into the canyon that you're glassing. I'm not saying that you NEED Swaro, Leica, or Zeiss glass, but I am saying that the more time you spend behind them, and the higher the power that you're using.......the more you will want quality glass. If you can find quality glass for cheaper, then go for it. But I guarantee you, you will rarely if ever find western guides with cheap glass.
    2006 LH Bowtech Old Glory 70#, 32 1/2" draw, back to the Hostage rest, SH 7-pin Hunter, 500gr TR Crush 300 @ 285fps.
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    2014 PSE Freak SP 70#, 32" draw, not set up yet.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowflngr View Post
    I gave no advice, other than to say if you have a budget go with a bino that gets replaced for ANY problem. Dont care what you believe, zenray reviews are carbon copies of the "NEW" chinaBino a few years ago.
    The market determines price...period
    I love how you come on here bashing other products saying they will be worth less soon, alot like your posts last year, big 3 havent come down, maybe next year lil guy, yea I take your opinion with a whole shaker of salt. Fact is these binos are extremely limited in their models. They have NO leading edge technology, they all rip off swarovski's "look", while the Big 3 lead the way in optical advancement and huge leaps in incorporating technology...ala rangefinding Binos lightyears ahead of the asian glass.
    Yea regular guys are gonna be fine with asian glass, but guys that want the ABSOLUTE BEST glass MADE will pay more for probably the extra 10% in quality.
    I strive to be the best I can and work hard to buy the Best i can. And after comparing ZenRay to Zeiss I KNOW FIRST HAND.
    HA ha ha ya like all 3 of you all who can afford a $2800 rangefinder bino. Or the new Swaro EL 42 for $2500. Ambiance is nice but always expensive. Again me and most others here could care less about your opinion. I envision someone like Obama with that high and mighty look and his nose in the air. And you are really really streching it with that 10% in quality. I'd say at best 2% and more realisticly 1%.
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vichris View Post
    HA ha ha ya like all 3 of you all who can afford a $2800 rangefinder bino. Or the new Swaro EL 42 for $2500. Ambiance is nice but always expensive. Again me and most others here could care less about your opinion. I envision someone like Obama with that high and mighty look and his nose in the air. And you are really really streching it with that 10% in quality. I'd say at best 2% and more realisticly 1%.
    You have no idea how good some of the guys you are bashing are..
    Hoyt Spyder 34

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowflngr View Post
    Na, I think 10% better optically and about 75% better ergonomically. ZenRay eyecups seem like they are made by Hasbro compared to euro binos.
    Funny everyone (with the exception of you) who's looked through the ZR's knows the optical quality is right there with the big three....there's no denying it. So now your reduced to paying and extra 2 grand for better eyecups?????????? LOL it's laughable. Ergonomics = ambiance!

    Oh and BTW I'm not bashing the Euro-optics. They are excellent quality,.....just like many of the up and coming Asian optics. It's become pretty obvious that the Euro-optics are good but extremely over-priced.

    I'll repeat it one more time. It's a bad time to make a risky investment in Euro-optics. If you really gotta have them wait it out a couple of years after the price wars have settled.
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  20. #20
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    not a fan boy or sponsored anyone but the obvious is a 500 Z brand willnot beat the 2500 S brand overall or even in most qualities. Anyone who proclaims that has never held both pairs- but the bang for your buck factor is suprising on the Z brand and everyone should try them before bashing and Vice Versa
    Green and growing or ripe and rotting?
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  21. #21
    [QUOTE=Arrowflngr;1057173418]Does ZenRay offer a rangefinding Bino? how may people want to buy a $2800 rangefinder bino???
    How about a 15 power model?How much of a market is there for these?
    12x? again a small market for these and I'm sure Hawke ZR and or Meopta will fill the bill soon
    Life time transferable warranty? Is that worth 2K? Almost all would not pay for that. BTW Anyone have warranty problems with ANY optics Company????? The only company I've ever had issues with was Burris.

    Keep telling yourself those are equal, you are the only person I hear carry on like this is some optic revolution. Do you make lens' in China or something?Nope I have no association with any optics companies.....
    I just dont see anything remotely close to empirical evidence they are in the same league, just VortexIIrayThat's because you only hear what you want to hear.[/QUOTE

    And again I notice you ONLY address the ZR's when its painfully clear to everyone here that I have mentioned at least two other companies.
    Hoyt Alphamax 35, Sword Twilight Hunter, Limbdriver rest, Lil Bitty Goose, Slick Trick BH, B-Stinger Stab

    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

  22. #22
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    My 2 cents,

    There have been vast improvements in optics by many companies big 3 included, there are asian companies like Nikon who make the best camera lenses in the world and are an established company who never put much time into the high end binoculars or spotting scopes but do know how to make high end optics that have decided with the EDG line and the LXL lines to rival the big 3 which I believe and most optic experts believe also, so on that front their are asian makers who are competing. I have had more staffies and people try to convert me to vortex and zen ray etc. they just are not on that level, they are nice and probably more than adequate in many situations and for many probably worth saving the money on vs big 3, nikon edg line etc. but they are no where close when you get them out in low light situations or picking details miles away in the open country. They are also very typical of low to mid range optics, great out of the box but put a few years on them and they get darker and darker.

  23. #23
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    I guess I'll throw my .02 in.

    I just picked up a pair of Hawke Frontier ED's. They are 8x43's. These are the nicest pair of bino's I have owned. I was using an older pair of Leupold 10x30's that I had owned for the past 10-12 years. The 43mm objective made all the difference in the world. As expected, the glass in the Hawkes is far superior to that in the Leupold. I picked the Hawkes up at a very reasonable price. I have no regrets.

    With that being said, the Hawkes(MSRP-$500) are in no way in the same league as the Big 3. My Brother in law has a pair of Swaro's. I believe they are the EL's. No comparison what so ever. Same goes for the Leica's.

    My Hawke's are perfect for me and for the hunting I do. Great glass, clarity, color, and just about anything I can think of. I've always been told to spend as much as you can afford on optics. If you can afford a $300 pair of bino's, buy the best $300 pair on the market. If your budget allows you to spend thousand's of dollars, then have at it.


    SCFox

  24. #24
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    Thumbs up Check Kowa Genesis binoculars if you want a great buy !

    I still believe the Kowa Genesis binoculars are among the best in the world and a best buy for the quality and price.
    Very ruggedly made with superb XD glass.
    If I were buying a high quality binocular today, I would get the Kowa Genesis 10x44.
    The downside is they're heavier than the standard 10x42 models of the big 3 but they're slightly brighter, built like a tank, and cost $600.00 to $1,000.00 less than the big 3.
    Actually, it should be big 4 including the Nikon EDG but Kowa is right there with all of them and a much better buy.
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  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=Arrowflngr;1057177896]Birders are the most critical of optics I think. I can find dozens of test that will mirror these findings. Zenray would be right with the other china optics, mid to last place(meopta).


    I see, the Nikon EDG did very well.
    They're an awesome binocular and rate with anything out there.
    Noticed the focus knob of one Genesis did poorly in the test; read on another site that it had the best adjusting knob ever.
    Just goes to show that tests vari but, agree, the birders know their binoculars.
    Bowman Accu-Riser I and II...Greatest built American bows of all time
    Hamskea Versa Rest, Hogg Father sight, Paridigm stabilizer.
    Scorpyd Crossbows... nothing else compares
    Zeiss Victory HT 10x42 binoculars...simply superb

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