View Poll Results: Wooden lever-/compound bow?
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April 6th, 2010, 07:59 AM
Project: Wooden version lever-/compound bows.
This is a serious project, that I am developing in coorporation with Monsterbows - a wooden version of these camless leverbows, with Phoenix as background. Monsterbows are working together with a serious bowyer about this project - as far as I know, it is Jim Belcher also working with Sky Archery. I don't have very much details at the moment, other than they are more or less ready to start the project, they have a solid plan - and they are talking about months to realize the wooden version. So with a little bit of luck perhaps in mid summer, the first bows could be ready.
These bows will be very high end, beautiful, outstanding and one of their kinds in the World. We are at the moment talking about making a wooden version of the camless leverbow. But as the price for a single bow on order, is going to be very high (realistically in the $1800-$2500 range) - we are talking about to see if we can gather a group of people who would be seriously interested in such a bow. At the same time, I am thinking that maybe we could make a wooden compound bow, for example in coorporation with Matthews (just example) - in order to reach a even bigger group and therefore drive the price pr. bow even more down.
But this will be a one in a lifetime offer and opportunity, as it will probably be a limited project. Perhaps after this project it would still be possible to order a wooden lever-/compoundbow - but then probably at a higher price than if ordered through this first project. It is a "multiple order" project, with the same rights for the single customer, as if it was a single order - but with the benefits of a special offer, because of the totally bigger order. In short: The more people who joins the project, the lower the price for the single bow.
If you are seriously interested please send me a pm, then I will keep you directly updated with what is going on with the project. Of course, I will also post news and more details in this thread, as it comes. But if you would like to join the project, please send me a pm, with your name and e-mail and what kind of bow you'd like (leverbow / compoundbow), so I can keep track with how many joins the project. It won't be binding - but I'd appreciate that these pre-signup's are quite serious. Later when the details are clear, we will make a final and binding signup to the project.
So maybe there are people out there who's like to be "traditionalists" - with compoundbow? - Or who just would like a wooden version of a leverbow or a compoundbow.
Let's see what it develops into - and how big the interest is.
April 6th, 2010, 08:15 AM
debatable. Nice idea, but will it fly? Especially with the economy as it is.
Back in the late '70s or early '80s, Browning, and I believe one or two others, had wooden compounds. The Browning XCellerator (if memory serves) was like a piece of artwork: simply beautiful. But then, how long will wood withstand the rigors of a compounding design?
So many cats,,,so few recipes.
April 6th, 2010, 08:31 AM
I think I remember Golden Eagle wooden compounds from old archery catalogs, that I unfortunately doesn't have any more (I think).
I agree that the economy has to get down to reach a greater group of people. On the other hand the economy doesn't get down, before a greater group shows serious interest. It's biting itself in the tail. But I hope to get information of how many orders they need to go down to other price levels.
About a wooden riser being strong enough to withstand the excessive forces in a lever action or compound bow. I believe it is possible, with the correct design. Especially with a design, where the limbs are close to be parallel limbs - that wasn't invented in the early days of wooden compounds. Below is a design, that I have drawn - if it's strong enough would be up to the bowyer to decide and if it's this design they are going after, I don't know.
Well - ok I can't post pictures yet. Maybe another time... LOL
April 6th, 2010, 08:53 AM
I'm sure it would look great but I highly doubt that its great looks would have buyers spending $2000.00.
April 6th, 2010, 09:02 AM
Except for me - perhaps... LOL I agree - but that price is also only if only one buys this bow. I could hope to get the price down to max. $1400 or lower, depending on how many who is interested.
April 6th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Allow me to clarify things a little bit...
Yes, Thorvald contacted us about building an all wood version of our bow. We liked the idea, mostly because we've discussed how it would be cool to do in the past but things being what they are currently with production schedule and such, it just wasn't a priority to build just for fun. Thorvald's request brought it to the forefront but it's still an expensive proposition to build a one off bow... that's why the high one piece price. The customer said he thoguht there were several people who would be interested in such a bow and my response was that if we build more than one, the cost comes down for all.
This bow is going to be on par with your high end recurves and longbows (another reason for the price tag). yes, it does involve Belcher and those who've seen his work know the quality and craftsmanship that will go into it. This would be a very unique bow on many levels.
I think Thorvald is looking for those that would be seriously interested in this type of bow made all in wood by posting this poll. If we can get a good accurate estimate of the demand, we can ballpark the cost much closer to reality, reduce the cost, and get things rolling.
Otherwise, Thorvald will have an extremely rare and unique bow to himself. LOL
April 7th, 2010, 12:21 AM
#huntinghippie: Otherwise, Thorvald will have an extremely rare and unique bow to himself. LOL
Hahahaha - yeah sure, if I can justify the cost for myself.... hihihhihihi...
April 7th, 2010, 12:54 AM
Had the Browning Exploder, I mean XCellerator. Loved that bow, right up to the time it wrapped the cables around me and busted the tip right off the limbs.
Originally Posted by tedlebo
I know wood has not improved any over time, so I hope the glues have.
April 7th, 2010, 12:57 AM
my first compound was a martin warthog (kids version) with laminated wood riser. still have it, and i have my dads wood riser Martin "warthog", too. (i say "warthog" because he believes it's a few different martin models all put together.)
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April 7th, 2010, 01:05 AM
Did it wrap the cables around you?? Well, I agree that it could be more difficult to make a all wooden compound bow than a all wooden lever action bow - that we are mainly talking about. I should probably have clarified, that when I think of a wooden compound bow, I am mainly thinking about a compound bow with wooden riser, but with ordinary limbs (perhaps with decoration wood veneer under glass veneer). Aren't any compound bows today with wooden core/glass laminated limbs?
Originally Posted by Archersteve
April 8th, 2010, 07:23 AM
this is going to be a extremely interesting project for sure.
April 8th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Yeaaahhhhh - I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, I can't wait for more details, ...
Oh - you did get the picture already - of somebody out there getting (over-)excited...??? No, well, but I do hope that it will come to real life and that it would be possible to hold the bow in the hands, well before the outdoor seasons ends - perhaps in the midsummer/July. Then I would have about 3 months to enjoy outdoor shooting with it, before we go indoor again.
Seriously I hope we can kick-off the project as soon as possible.
April 8th, 2010, 07:49 AM
could you make the limbs out of compressed bamboo like a fly rod? man that would look sick
April 8th, 2010, 08:05 AM
How does compressed bamboo look like? Do you have some pictures? To my opinion it would be great, if customers can choose from some wood options, both for the riser and for the limbs. For the limbs, the core material could be set by the bowyer, or perhaps 2 options, like carbon core, with wood veneer to customers choice, under clear glass and wood laminations core (yew, maple - what is best) and with wood veneer to customers choice.
Then you could for example have compressed bamboo, because that is beautiful in your eyes, and I could perhaps get something as in the style in the picture below - because that is beautiful in my eyes. Source: Acadian Woods. They make extreemly beautiful bows. But of course this is not totally up to us, the customers, it is mainly for Monsterbows and their bowyer to see what options they will make available for choice.
April 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
i thought of bambo because of its ability to flex. they use it in all kinds of stuff... fishing rods, flooring
April 8th, 2010, 03:14 PM
The old metal cables wrapped around my left arm - scared the ____ or of me.
Originally Posted by Thorvald
April 8th, 2010, 11:56 PM
Oh - that wasn't too nice indeed... I don't understand how cables can come so much out of track, that they jump off and jam in the wheel - or wrap around one's arm. The compound I had once, didn't have any signs of any of these problems. Now it may be that today's cams are more wild and therefore more subject to error, than my then compound's round wheels.
Originally Posted by Archersteve
But - that is yet another reason to choose a camless compound like Monsterbow's! It is as simple as a recurvebow, it is as simple maintained as a recurvebow, it is as simple to shoot as a recurvebow. But it has all the advantages of a compoundbow, acc. to speed, compact size, centershot and let-off. So choosing a Monsterbow - wooden or ordinary - gives a extreemly simple, smooth and sweet compoundbow. Unless the cables on a Monsterbow explode, I cannot see how they should go off - even wrap around your arm. Even if the cables explode - there is still the string to hold the bow - or if the string explode there are still the cables. On a compound - it is more or less one "endless" loop of string / cables. Also the design of the camless Monsterbow is so innovative and intelligent, that it makes it beautiful - and yet the bow it-self is also beautiful. I like compoundbows, they have their own charm as recurves and longbows also has, but a camless Monsterbow is really having a charm of it's own. I simply love this extreemly simple - but yet effective idea.
April 9th, 2010, 12:01 AM
Hi. I think bamboo is very good as a limb wood - I don't know if it is as good as yew.
Originally Posted by jlh42581
April 9th, 2010, 12:07 AM
why build a wooden lever bow when you have all of the technologies we have today. i'm sorry to tell you this but it's just not going to fly!
there really isn't going to be a market for them, and the little market there will be, won't be profitable! i person is either going to shoot a traditional style bow, or a modern compound.
April 9th, 2010, 12:42 AM
In one way I agree with you. But:
Originally Posted by robbbinhoodx
- A wooden version will shot as good as the modern version.
- A wooden version could be extreemly beautiful - what some people are willing to pay some extra for - how much extra is different from person to person. Not many, no big market - we know that. For now appr. 10 is interested. If that is enough to drive the price down pr. bow to a level similar of the more expensive compound bows, I don't know.
- Then you're saying, either the archer shoots traditional or he shoots (modern) compound. Again, in one way, I agree. I am feeling that the trend is going against compound and barebow (recurve or longbow) and less people shooting recurve olympic bow. Also I think that the trend is going a little from compound to traditional, because people get's tired of the compound's accuracy (easy to hit high scores with). And then I think, that perhaps some people would like to shoot traditional, but they like to shoot compound (or they have to shoot compound for medical reasons). What they then could do in the first place, is to shoot compound limited or compound barebow. But if the possibility was there to get the mix between traditional and compound = wooden custom compound - then why not? - And a lever action bow is very much like a recurve - and therefore closer to the traditional idea and then also more obvious as a wooden bow.
Why build a wooden compound when you have the technologies of today? Well, because we can. Because it's beautiful. Because a few people likes the idea and are willing to pay for it (depending of course on the final price). Because of the idea of shooting the lever bow in the same way as you would shoot a recurve barebow.
I don't know yet if the project is going to reality. I may be willing to pay for getting a one off bow, if the other interested people goes away, when the final price comes - but I am not 100% sure (about 95-98% sure lol). I have setup a pre order of a ordinary Phoenix - so I know what to order, if the wooden project for one reason or another falls to the ground.
April 9th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Actually the list of interested is:
Wooden Lever-bow: 10
Wooden Compound: 6 (4)
- Why (4) in compound?, because 2 of them has also voted on a wooden lever bow, and I don't know if they would buy both.
April 9th, 2010, 03:48 AM
April 9th, 2010, 04:18 AM
No, you're right - a wooden lever bow would not be traditional in the normal understanding of traditional archery.
I understand perfectly that the reason why the production of wooden compound bows faded out, was because they began to use materials that better could withstand the greater and greater forces applied in a compound bow. But it do no mean that it is not possible to make a compound bow with wooden riser that is perfectly strong for the forces in the bow, and that is as speedy as a modern compound bow. At least I believe it is possible. The thing is that in the childhood and youth of compound bows, the stresses in the riser was probably far worse for the wood than in today's bows with parallel limb design. If I am not mistaken the parallel limb design does not apply so much bending forces in the riser as the more up-right limb design. In parallel limb design the forces goes more straight up and down (tension / compression) in the riser, with a smaller bending force. Lever bows has a close to parallel limb design.
Not attractive - depends on who you ask - but in general you're right, the market is small.
Thick grip - not thicker than on a recurve bow. Thick riser - not thicker than a recurve bow - but the design needed might be different than a wooden recurve bow riser (see below sketch idea). The power limbs does not have to be made of wood, if it seems to be too difficult or if it makes the bow much slower. I would be happy with carbon limbs with wood decoration veneers at back and belly. Of course I want a fast bow - why not?
I agree that the wooden recurve bows made out there are extreemly beautiful - I have one, custom made. But I truly believe that a wooden lever bow would be just as beautiful and just as powerfull as a conventional one. I don't think I would become disappointed, when I first hold it in my hands. But it also depends on the price - the higher price the greater risk that one will get disappointed. I don't say it is a wooden Monsterbow or no Monsterbow. If we find out that a wooden Monsterbow in one way or another is not realistic, then I order an ordinary one.
April 9th, 2010, 06:48 AM
April 9th, 2010, 07:55 AM
I applaud your efforts.
I can understand your motivation, and I hope you can do this successfully. The market will be very small, and I would not be able to justify that kind of money for a bow, even though I consider it my #1 hobby. Still though, being able to prove your ideas and making a bow like you are talking about is a worthy quest. One of these bows would certainly be a conversation piece.
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