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The Foundation Fall Mix

64K views 221 replies 51 participants last post by  Bassattackr 
#1 ·
I have mentioned this mix in a couple of other threads, and thought it had enough value to relatively new plotters (such as myself) to have its' own thread. (And I need to stop hijacking scrapejuice's!) I tried to think of a title that would be easy to remember for future searches, and Foundation is the best I could do. I chose that because this mix is the foundation of my plotting strategy. Wherever I want to go, I usually start from here.

Winter Rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring Oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas 20-80#'s per acre (4010 or 6040 field peas will work fine for 1/2 the price)
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
I take NO credit for developing this mix, as the work was done solely by Lickcreek over on the QDMA forum. Here is a link to his thread:
http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25851
This is an awesome read, but at last count it was 50 pages long, so I'm just trying to condense some of the info here.

Advantages of this mix:

The oats are an early season attractant, but will die out in northern climes due to severe cold.

The rye will make it through winter, feeding deer the whole time from fall through spring.

The peas, well, they're deer candy. Enough said.

Groundhog forage radish- smaller crown than most brassicas, so it wont shade out the rest of the mix, and deer start eating it sooner than other brassicas. Also develops a long taproot that can help break up hardpan.

The clover will start in the fall, develop roots and wait for spring. In spring it will get a jump start and you'll have a clean clover plot all spring summer and fall till it's time to plant again. This means no spring planting, just maintenance mowing. In the fall, disk the clover in to put free Nitrogen credits back into the soil, then plant the same mix and do it again.

The rye will grow to 4 ft tall or so in the spring, but doesn't even have to be cut...it's not planted heavy enough to shade the clover. (Another reason to plant the oats-so they will die in winter and you won't have a stand of cereal grain thick enough to shade the clover out.) Even if you want the grains gone in spring you can either bushhog or spray clethodim to have a pure stand of clover.

Rye also has alleopathic chemicals in the roots that inhibit weed growth. It's also a nitrogen scavenger that collects nitrogen from the soil but releases it back into the soil as it decomposes.
An idea on cost, where to get, and a repeat :embara: of some of the advantages.

Call around for seed prices and availability. The only thing I will have to pay shipping on will be the groundhog forage radish. Peas, oats, rye, red and white clover are commonoly available. You may have to talk to several farm supply stores though, and they may have to put in an order for you.

I will probably get my radish seed from Welters

http://www.welterseed.com/default.aspx

Here are some prices in my area:

Rye $12-15 / bag or bushel (1 bu = 56 lbs)
Oats About the same as rye, give or take (oats are 32 lbs / bu)
Peas Varies- $30-50 / 50 lbs for austrian winter peas, up to half that for common field peas.
Clover- $3-4 per lb for red, white can be more
Groundhog Forage Radish - $2.65 / lb at Welters. They usually charge a fee for splitting a bag, and you'll pay shipping. It's worth it to me if I can't find anyone to order them for me.

Here is the mix again:

Quote:
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas 20-80#'s per acre (4010 or 6040 field peas will work fine for 1/2 the price)
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

So, if I plant
80 # rye = ~$24
80 # oats = ~ $24
50 # AWP = ~$40
10 # Red Clover = ~$35
5 # Forage Radish = ~$15-20(? on shipping and handling)

Total Cost = around $143 per acre. That will vary quite a bit on local prices. The cost can be lowered a lot by finding field peas instead of AWP.

Even at this cost, it's well worth it to me. I saw more deer in plots last year than I ever have before. They stayed around all winter as well, which they have NEVER done on our place. It was pretty cool.

You've also got to remember that this mix saves replanting a spring plot b/c the clover takes over. This means you're getting a full year of foodplot for the price of one planting. Here's a pic of the clover in my plot that I planted this mix in last fall. The pic was taken last weekend, and it has not been mowed in this pic. The nibs are all from deer browsing.



They're hitting this red clover so hard it can't bloom, and that's hard to do! The clover piece of this mix is essential--only maintenance mowing is required in the spring and summer while the clover feeds the does during fawning and milking season, provides a good source of protein for the bucks, all while fixing nitrogen. The nitrogen will be captured by disking the clover under in the fall to replant the plot. The nitrogen will help the next crop, and reduce any fertilizer costs.
How to plant:

Best way is to disk, broadcast rye, peas, and oats, then cultipack. Then broadcast radish and clover and cultipack again.

If you don't have a cultipacker, I would broadcast the rye, peas, and oats and either drag or lightly disk it in and then broadcast the clover and radish before a rain or very lightly drag it. The clover and radish doesn't need to be more than 1/4" deep.
When to plant:

Plant 4-6 weeks before average first frost. My average first frost is 10/14 and I planted last year around the middle of september. I could've pushed that to late september or early september pretty easily. My archery season starts in late september, so that means I want my plot a couple weeks old then.

You don't want to plant too early, or the cereal grains will get too big and "stemmy" and will not be as palatable to deer.

Rye is less critical on planting dates than most things. It will germinate and grow at pretty low temps (mid to upper 30's). Last year I sowed rye on top of the ground into standing beans in early october. When the farmer leasing the ground harvested the beans, I had a stand of rye already 3-4 inches tall. That kept deer in that area all winter and into early spring.
An example of how to use this mix as a foundation plot:

I will replant the mix every year because the grains, peas, and radish are a great fall attractant. I could just as easy use this plot as a GREAT way to establish a permanent clover plot.

Clover is an important food plot, but it is most useful in spring, summer, and early fall. It goes dormant in cold weather and deer utilize it much less than the other parts of the mix at that time.

That boils down to me replanting the fall mix to hunt over, and having a red clover plot the next spring summer, and early fall. I use red instead of white because it is cheaper and establishes quicker. White is usually more preferred by deer and has a higher protein content.

If I wanted to establish a long term clover plot, I would plant the basic mix with some red clover and more white clover. The red would establish and grow quickly, the white would take over later. White lasts a few more years than red.

As fall planted clover works MUCH better than spring planted, this basic mix is a great segway into another plot. It's also a great way to condition new ground.

The tinkering options are endless. In one plot last year I left out the clover, then disked the plot under in May and planted buckwheat on May 9. On July 4 I disked the buckwheat under. It will come back from seed, and I will till that under for my fall plot (AFTER having a dove hunt over the mowed buckwheat field full of buckwheat seed). That makes 3 green manure crops in the same calendar year, all starting with the foundation plot.

Again I take NO credit, as the work that went into it was done by someone that knows a heck of a lot more than me. I do hope that folks find this info as useful as I have. If you do, let me know! I'd appreciate questions, comments, or complaints. :D
 
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#136 ·
Notes from the season:

We took three bucks off the farm this year-- my buck (above), my Dad's 3.5 year old 8 point, and my future father-in-laws 3.5 year old 7 point. All three were taken from the same blind overlooking about a half acre of the foundation plot.

The deer have learned how to more effectively eat the radishes. Last year they only touched the green tops and when they wilted they moved on to the rye.

This year when they stopped eating the green tops they started eating the root. I watched a FAT doe with twins in December walk through a plot. She would target a radish, turn her head a little and bite the top of the radish, removing the entire green top. She would discard the top and then take large chunks out of the radish until she had eaten it all the way to the ground.

My buck had large chunks of radish in his stomach which leads me to believe he had been eating them in the same manner.

I've got pics to post and will when time allows.
 
#137 ·
From early October--I planted too many radishes in this plot and they nearly took over.



From Early November:

Here are the discarded tops I was talking about. The deer tear the tops off, throw them away, then eat as much of the radish root as they can.



I was suprised, but turkeys like radishes as well. I was able to watch this group tearing off small pieces of the leaves and eating them.





Egyptian Wheat is great for screening plots, but also great for hiding a blind!



 
#138 ·
Deer definitely eat radishes.





But don't overplant (like I did here) or the radishes will shade out the rye and clover and you wind up with bare ground after the radishes play out.



I overseeded some cheap white clover in this spot.

Here's what the properly seeded portions look like.....the radishes have been devastated.





Any radishes that survive the deer and the winter will put on new growth, bolt, flower, and produce seed. Here's what it looks like when they bolt.

 
#142 ·
How long will the seed last? I'm going to be planting this mix this fall, but would like to start buying the seed now just to make sure I can get it. I planted the mix a couple years ago and was able to find the seed, I just had to drive to several different seed stores.
I know you can keep them in a freezer, but I don't have a freezer big enough for all the seed. Would storing them in my shed be ok for the summer months until I plant?
 
#143 ·
Captain,

Does your shed have AC? If not then I wouldn't store seed in it. Our garage probably hits 115-120+ on those 95-100 degree summer days. I don't think cooking seed like that would ge good for the germ rate.

If you've got a garage or basement that is cooled then go for it.
 
#145 ·
Ok guys, I am thinking about planting this mix in an 8 acre bottom I have right now. I have a few questions. Right now it is in Fescue so I will be spraying the whole bottom and wait for it to die and then disk it, let it set another month or so and spray it again and disk again. Do you think spraying it twice before I plant is overkill? Once I plant the foundation mix in the fall and let it grow will I need to disk and replant everything the next fall or do I just overseed with everything but clover? Thanks for the help guys.

Chase
 
#148 ·
Our bow season starts September 15th and I was wondering when I should plant this mixture to have the best stand by then. We are also in NW Missouri and it is pretty dry that time of year. How does the seed respond to lack of rain if it happens? Is it pretty resilient?
 
#150 ·
pettzl,

You want to stick to 6 weeks or so before your first frost day. And personally I would plant when some rain was in the forecast even if that meant planting it on opening weekend. It's a long season, so I'd want to give the plot as good a start as I could.

Captain, I haven't added any fertilizer--ever. I'm exploring the cheaper and easier side of food plotting. :wink: Triple 10 or Triple 19 are both pretty standard, if you want to know for sure just pull a soil sample.
 
#152 ·
I haven't updated much this year because there wasn't much need. The clover burnt up in our 6 week drought with 3 weeks of 100+ temps, but we've gotten rain recently and it has started to come on pretty good.

I'll be doing things differently this year. I'm putting my largest plot back into hay ground and starting a smaller one nearby in a more huntable situation, rotating another into a permanent Durana / ladino clover stand, and starting three more that will be overlooked by a new blind (a bangstick stand). I may start another small plot as well.

I'll update soon on the changes. I bushhogged this week in preparation of spraying gly in a week or two. That will give the grass and weeds time to die before disking up and sowing.
 
#153 ·
I planted the mix last weekend. I made the field a little bigger than in my previous pictures. We had a little rain the day after, but it really wasn't much and yesterday we had a quarter inch. I checked it yesterday before the rain came in and the rye has started to come up in places and was 2-3" already. I saw some clover in places but it was so small you could barely see it yet. Don't know if I saw any oats or turnips.

I wasn't able to find peas anywhere before I planted so I'm missing that part, but otherwise it should be a good field. I'm just trying to establish a clover plot here in the future anyways, but I am disappointed I couldn't find the peas.
 
#154 ·
Cap, good luck!

I was going to spray this weekend in order to disk and plant a few new plots either in early or late Sept. I hooked the sprayer up to the tractor and filled it. That's when I noticed the feed line from the tank to the pump was leaking. So that meant a 1 hour trip to Tractor Supply for a new line. I got that installed and drove down to the plot to spray. Turned on the PTO and......nothing. Shut the PTO down fast. The pump was already hot, and not working at all. We didn't pour antifreeze in it last winter so that may have gotten it. Anyway, that meant a trip Sunday back to Tractor Supply for a new pump. Got back and realized the PTO coupler is pressed onto the shaft and we don't have a puller. So at church last night we gave both pumps to a friend who owns a mechanic shop. He's supposed to be changing out the couplers today so I can still spray this week.

And people think plotting is EASY???? It's always something.

My planting time is pressed this year because I'll be in Colorado on an elk hunt from the 6th through the 16th.
 
#156 ·
Well I got two plots sprayed yesterday afternoon. I think I'm paying for my good luck last year with bad luck this year. The shutoff valve on the tank broke yesterday, then I got LIT UP by an electric fence, and finally I realized that the pressure adjusting knob on the sprayer is gone. I jerry rigged a bungie cord, baling wire, and electrical tape to get the pressure I need.

I hope to finish the spraying tonight!
 
#157 ·
I really wanted to try the Fall Foundation plot mix this year. I contacted a seed co in my home state and got a quote. It was more than I expected and maily due to the Oats. They only have Winter Oats, which was about $60 for 80#. When asking them for another alternative, they suggested Winter Wheat. It's 1/2 the cost. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I am planning to spray this weekend and plant next week. Thanks for the input in advance.
 
#158 ·
Novice,

If you can't find cheap oats then drop them from the mix and just plant rye. There are many different variations of this mix, and they all work! This year I'm planting one plot in rye/radish/durana/ladino, three new plots in rye/radish with no clover (they'll have a lot of weed pressure next year so I don't want to waste money on clover), and I'm planting rye/radish/fescue/orchardgrass in another to rotate it back into hay ground.
 
#159 ·
Ok. Thanks DB. I'm going to go ahead & see what happens. I have a few spots, including wooded, trails, & open areas that I'll try it in. I just planted a small spot last mon, which was a hodge podge of antler king sample packets, radishes, leftover whitetail institute oats, & clover. If I have any growth, I'll b posting pics.
 
#160 ·
I'm late getting started with plots this year because of an elk hunt earlier this month.



But I guess it was worth it! I took this bull on the fifth day of a solo, OTC public land, backcountry backpack bowhunt in Colorado.

Thankfully my Dad has helped a great deal this year with disking so all I've had to do is plant and cultipack.

 
#161 ·
I sprayed roundup on this plot early this month. It was established fescue so I needed to give it time for the roots to die and decompose a bit.

We learned an easier way of working up old hay ground: spray, let it die, CHISEL PLOW, then disk.



The chisel plow went down 4 inches or so and did a nice job busting up the old sod. It cuts a bigger swath than our 3 bottom turning plow and goes much faster too. It cuts a lot better than a disk only, so all that makes it my preferred method for this application.
 
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