The Foundation Fall Mix - Page 8


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  1. #176

    Re: The Foundation Fall Mix

    Quote Originally Posted by notoriouskattt View Post
    The best money you can spend is on a soil sample for ten bucks. You will save it in the long run by not planting seeds that will not grow and getting the soil and PH right so your not throwing away seed.
    The soil test will let you know what you need to put in the ground, both in minerals and for seed.
    That being said, this mix is on the fairly safe side and should grow as long as your soil is not on the really low end. If your gonna wing it at least get some bulk lime and get that in an working, it takes about 6 months for it so fully incorporate into that soil. Something like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19 wouldn't hurt right at planting day either.

    Get a soil test and know exactly what your lacking.
    We are having a soil test done, I was just wondering where the numbers should be with this particular mix.

    Also, if we sprayed our plot and plowed it last fall, do you think we could frost seed it this winter/spring to get the clover going? Or should we just plant the buckwheat this spring?

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  3. #177
    You want the pH to be neutral, or as close as possible. Without a good pH fertilizer isn't utilized as well by the plants, so I'd put down lime before I would fertilizer.

    Clover will probably be outcompeted if spring planted in a new foodplot. Buckwheat is a great way to break in new ground.

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  5. #178

    Re: The Foundation Fall Mix

    Thank you! So, even if the ground was broke (plowed) and sprayed last fall?

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  7. #179
    Yes. It can help to lime and then disk it in too.

  8. #180
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    york county
    My first time posting here.I can testify this is a great mix I actually found out about it from Iowa the Qdma website,been using this mix for quite a few years with excelent results.I actually like to add a bag of soys to the mix.They dont last long add attraction for small properties and help the peas last longer,just my 2 cents.Lick Creek is a very informative fellow.

  9. #181

    The Foundation Fall Mix

    Again, the rye keeps it's providing nesting habitat for turkeys and a nurse crop for the durana clover I planted.

    After it dries down I will mow it and it will straw the field and help keep moisture in the soil through our hot summer.

  10. #182
    The rye got thick, nasty, and provided nesting and fawning cover as well as keeping the weeds down and protecting the clover. The deer trails were apparent when I bush hogged it.

    And underneath....

  11. #183
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Greenville, SC
    With mt first post on these forums I'd like to thank everyone for the wealth of knowledge shared in here. Really helps a beginner plotter like me do it right. Now, to that point...

    If I'm understanding the original foundation formula correctly I'm going to be putting somewhere between 160-300 lbs of seed on one acre of land? Or is that just the mix and I need to adjust my rate somehow. Sorry for the dumb question, but it's going to take some time for us to catch some of you pros. Hell, even some of you novices. Ha!

    Property Specs: New lease, 500 acres in mid-SC. Timber owned so space is limited. For now, FP's will be confined to a couple old, old plot locations, road edges and pine strips.

  12. #184

    The last few years I haven't put any oats out and I put rye out at about 100 lbs or 2 bushel to the acre. Then radish at about 5 lbs per acre, and red clover at about 10 lbs / acre. The Durana I planted last year was a lighter planting rate. I'd have to dig through this thread to remember what it was....but IIRC most white clover is around 4-5 lbs/ac.

  13. #185
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Greenville, SC
    Thanks for the reply RC.

    I figured total would be 100#'s to 105#'s on the heavy side. It just seemed like 300#'s of seed on 1 acre of land was a LOT. But what do I know...

    I noticed you bought Radishes from Welters last year. Were they the Groundhogs? Or did you go with another variety? I get a funny look from the seed guys when I ask for Groundhog Radish around here, so I was thinking about going with Daikons. Any thoughts here?

  14. #186
    I planted Daikons the first couple of years and they did great. I planted groundhogs last year and they did terrible, but I don't think it was the radishes fault. I didn't get planted until October last year, so the radishes were a month late getting in and they never got that jump of growth they needed from warm temps.

    Personally I will try to plant daikons just because I've had luck with them in the past. And I WILL get my plots in around the first week of Sept.

  15. #187
    There is some awesome information in this thread, I wish I had noticed it a long time ago. I'm getting ready to do my fall plots and I think I'm gonna give this a shot on about 3 acres as a destination plot

  16. #188
    I changed things up a bit this year.

    First, I rotated my best plot into Durana white clover with last fall's planting of the Foundation Mix. I got a good stand of white and volunteer red clover this year, so all I did was keep it mowed and spot sprayed some clethodim on the johnson grass that always comes up. The weekend of 9/7-9/8 I overseeded a bit of radish into the clover. We will see if it comes up. If not it's an easy and not expensive experiment.

    I abandoned a new plot from last year, moved an elevated hunting blind, and am committing to long term use of the 2 acre plot surrounding my whitetail orchard. I got that 2 acres, another 3/4 acre plot, another 1.5 acres or so, plus two new micro plots planted last weekend. It couldn't have gone better because I got a nice soaking rain yesterday and it is absolutely pouring right now. I bet the rye and radish is up within the next 2-3 days.

    Planting info for this year:

    Rye - two bags / 100 lbs / acre - $21 / bag
    Radish - about 5 lbs per acre. I used the rest of the groundhog radish I saved from last year so no cost there.

    Now I've just got some stands to hang and improve and I'm ready for season. My goal is to get 4-5 deer to eat this year, more or less depending of whether I get any big bucks.

    How you move a tower blind. Fun times.

  17. #189
    Archery season opened today.

    The clover in this plot was planted last fall and It is thick after the rain we've had this year. It's got a bit of bermuda, johnson grass, plantain, and pigweed here and there. I will clean that up next spring with clethodim and 2-4DB.

  18. #190
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Western Wisconsin
    I just read through this whole thread and plan on planting this in at least one of my food plots this year. One of my plots I'd like to establish a stand of clover. I've read around on the QDMA forums and it looks like a mix of Jumbo Ladino, Alice, and Kopu II white clovers are the way to go. What should I use as a cover crop? I'm thinking oats and/or winter rye. And how much of each (clover and cover crop) should I plant per acre?

  19. #191
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Woodstock, GA
    What are the advantages of having a clover only plot?? This is a 2nd year Durana Plot that I am very proud of...

    2014_5 Condo Plot.jpg

  20. #192
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Woodstock, GA
    If you have a clover plot like the one in the pic, would there be an advantage to no till drill in your brassicas (turnips/ radishes) and grains (rye/ oats)?? Or would it be best to leave alone? Just mow after it has reseeded itself in spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by 167_12PT View Post
    What are the advantages of having a clover only plot?? This is a 2nd year Durana Plot that I am very proud of...

    2014_5 Condo Plot.jpg

  21. #193
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    This forum topic started a couple years back and there was much discussion on here.

    For clovers, so many people spring establish them. I do as thats part of my research but it's becoming more of a trend and i'm advocating for fall seeding of legumes. Why?

    1. You have way less weed competition to deal with in the fall. \
    2. So many people wait to put down lime and fertilizer at spring time. It takes up to 6 months for lime to work. Get the lime down and make it work.
    3. I advocate for plot rotation and believe in green manure for many reasons. Weed control, building up organic matter and to help improve soil texture and structure.
    4. Plant a soil builder in the spring. Give the deer something to eat and then burn down/plow down and fall plant your perennials.
    5. Plant brassicas as a cover crop/fall feed, to help the clovers to establish.
    6. Another option is to plant berseem clover or crimson clover along with the slower growing clovers. The berseem the deer love and with it being so fast growing, it helps suppress weeds.

  22. #194
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    tag for a great thread
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  23. #195
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Here is my clover seeding perennial recommendation mix options:

    Deer creek seed's perennial plus @ 9 lbs/acre and mix with 5 lbs of berseem clover as your cover crop. This mix would cost less than $70 an acre or if you just use the mix without the berseem your looking around $60.
    Here is why berseem clover..... I as a nutritionist prefer higher quality cover crops. Berseem clover is a smother crop. Planted with other forages, Berseem clover supresses weed growth. Berseem is quick growing. At 60° F, berseem clover will be ready to cut about 60 days after planting. As a legume nurse crop. Because of its quick germination (seven days), quick growth and winter killing tendency, berseem clover can be used as a nurse crop for alfalfa or clovers. At 18 to 28 percent protein, young berseem clover is highly palatable and gives nutrition benefits for protein, energy and mineral content over the grain cover crops/nurse crop.

    Spring Option 2
    Spring Triticale 25-50 lbs/ acre @ $20/50lb bag
    Medium red clover 2.5 lbs/acre @ $3/lb
    ladino clover 2.25 lbs/acre @ $5/lb
    new Zealand white 2.25 lbs/acre @ $4.50/lb
    alsike clover 2 lbs/acre @ $4/lb
    this mix would run a person $57 an acre

    Fall Option
    Winfred Brassica 2 lbs/acre @ $4.50/lb
    Berseem Clover 4 lbs/acre @ $3/lb
    medium red clover 2.5 lbs/acre @ $3/lb
    ladino clover 2.25 lbs/acre @ $5/lb
    new Zealand white 2.25 lbs/acre @ $4.50/lb
    alsike clover 2 lbs/acre @ $4/lb
    this mix would run around $58/ acre

    there are numerous mixes one could use. So many people overlook alsike clover, if they have lower pH's and/or wetter soils. I like a good 3-4 clover diverse mix to handle various traffic areas, grazing pressures and soil types.

  24. #196
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Question for you guys:

    Lickcreek was originally recommending planting the following mix all together in the same plot:

    Winter Rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
    Spring Oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
    Austrian Winter Peas 20-80#'s per acre (4010 or 6040 field peas will work fine for 1/2 the price)
    Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
    Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

    His thread now seems to indicate (and I might be mistaken) that 3 different "sub-plots" be planted, a grain mix, a brassica mix and a clover mix. The way I read it, they are all in the same plot but the mixes are segregated into these sub-plots (I think for easy rotation). The thread is so long, I'm not sure if I'm missing something or not. Is this better than the original mix or just different?

    Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

    Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

    Brassicas in 45% of plot

    Purple Top Turnips 3#
    Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
    GroundHog Forage radish 5#

    Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

    Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

    Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
    Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
    Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

    Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
    Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

    Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

    Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
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  25. #197
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    SW Arkansas
    TTT since several folks are asking about food plots, I have found this thread to be gold for info regarding the topic.

  26. #198

  27. #199
    Planting a variant of this on newly broken ground in SC this weekend. Thoughts?

    Planting just under an acre:

    Locally grown oats @ 64lbs

    Winter Peas @ 50lbs

    Winter Rye @ 50lbs

    Purple Top Turnips @ 3lbs

    Cleared out about an acre total that was grown over in briars, bush hogged and then sprayed a week later to kill everything. Then had a neighbor use a deep plow to turn ground over.

    We are going in to disk and drag Saturday to level ground out and then plant.

    I plan to disk, spread rye, oats, and peas and then drag. Las I will broadcast turnips. What do y'all think?

  28. #200
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Sounds like a PERFECT plan!

    Ive got about the same thing done on a few different spots. Being from MN I got mine done about 10 days ago. Much of my oats and rye are already up 1-2 inches.

    Im hoping Aug 15-20 wasnt too early for me???? You should be golden!!!

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