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Thread: State of lever limb bows (Oneida, &c.)

  1. #1

    State of lever limb bows (Oneida, &c.)

    Is there an historical overview of these bows available? I found one page listing Oneida models as well as some discussion here:

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=831683&page=3

    Apparently it's a touchy subject though? So please only nicely stated verifiable facts...

    How about a list of companies making them currently?

    Apparently Monster Bows is closing?

    http://www.monsterbows.com/forums/vi...php?f=3&t=6803

    But maybe there will still be some available?

    http://www.********.com/forum/lofive...php?t5370.html

    I found Oneida of course:

    http://www.cponeidaeagle.com/
    http://www.oneidabows.net

    but I don't want cams...

    and BTU Archery:

    http://btuarchery.com/index.html

    But doesn't appeal to me.

    Apparently the basic design concepts of the cam-less style aren't patent encumbered?

    http://www.monsterbows.com/forums/vi...=patent#p55603

    (more patents here:

    http://www.oneidabows.net/forum/view...hp?f=21&t=1538

    )

    I was wondering if it would be possible for me to build one myself... if I can't buy a good-looking cam-less model?

    William

    Last edited by WillAdams; July 20th, 2010 at 11:14 PM. Reason: second patent link


  2. #2
    Join Date
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    it is true, victim of the current economy has forced us to make some hard choices... the biggest of which is closing the doors. However, I have made arrangements with 5150/********* Archery to supply parts, support, and service if needed for our bows so that all of our customers still have someone to turn to if they feel the need to. Some of the upgrade parts that I had been working on will also be available from 5150. I just really wanted to make sure, as much as possible, that nobody was left high & dry by this.

    Apparently the basic design concepts of the cam-less style aren't patent encumbered?
    The fact is, whether there's a patent or not, people steal designs, alter them slightly, or just plain copy and start cranking them out... and can claim whatever. Unless you have a LOT of money to persue them legally, there's really not much that can be done. Our govt has so stripped the patent system down in the name of building competition and growth that the patent doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to. Doesn't really protect much other than your ability to produce your own products.

    don't believe this.... well, it's not just our designs... look at the STS thing a few years ago. Everyone jumped on that. Sure they stopped a few people in the end but they lost lots of money. Or look at the 2 track 2 cam for another example. There's 5-6 or more companies building bows on that system and maybe 2-3 are paying for it if you follow the stories. Somewhere someone is getting hosed and it's taken years for even part of the story to come out and we may never know exactly who what when where and why. LOL

    I don't know if anyone will take up the camless lever bow design. I've been approached by a few companies but only time will tell. If you want to build one yourself, it's very possible and there's plenty of resources to do that. I would start with Rich at 5150/*********. He's very knowledgable and we are fully supporting them as well.

    As for any current style lever bow, there are no known valid, active patents covering any lever bow design configuration. this includes Monsters, 5150, Firebrands, Oneidas, etc. All are expired, and therefore public, though there may be some pending.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
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    and BTU Archery:

    http://btuarchery.com/index.html

    But doesn't appeal to me.

    Apparently the basic design concepts of the cam-less style aren't patent encumbered?
    To clarify, BTU archery is and will be a custom bow company, that helps with design and rework of older model bows and innovative approuches to new equipment. We do not Build New Bows.

    We do carry the Genesis Alpha and in the near future the new hunting version with the open sight window model based on traditional riser design that will be a shoot-tru cable design.

    The Genesis Alpha is built by Don Kudlacek in the USA.

    I would suggest you call CP Oneida and or other companies to get the Full and Correct information on each as you have stated "Apparently it's a touchy subject though?".

    My number is on my web Site and I would be more than happy to speak with you on my behalf about BTU Archery.

    Bob Beneteau

    Owner; BTU Archery

  4. #4
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    http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/status/index.jsp

    find the patent and enter it in to find its current status. Pretty easy to use and find the accurate info... not speculation.

    So the answer to your question again is.... yes, it is possible for you to build a camless lever bow. As the now former owner of Monster Bows, the original bow you were interested in, my suggestion would be to contact 5150/*********. I've been working with them now and fully support their efforts to further lever bows in general, including camless versions.

  5. #5
    im surprised how some manufactures have let their patens expire. very interesting site for sure

  6. #6

    Oneida History



    For those interested in oneida history here is a link to our history section at http://www.oneidabows.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=21
    This Oneida Eagle Bows history section includes information I collected over the years from members of our forum, the internet as well as from three owners of oneida eagle bows. I have spoken with these individuals personally and received most of this information from them. For more information on oneida eagle bows you can go to www.oneidabows.net/forum

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    As for any current style lever bow, there are no known valid, active patents covering any lever bow design configuration. this includes Monsters, 5150, Firebrands, Oneidas, etc. All are expired, and therefore public, though there may be some pending.
    I'm revising the above statement...

    There ARE patents for lever bows that have never been produced. John Islas, the original designer and patent holder of many lever bows, has a couple that have never been in production. There are a couple patents on related designs (not really lever bows though) but again... nothing that's currently a "production" bow. All currently produced lever bows are basically based on 1 of 3 possible patents which are now public property.

    This information came straight from the US Patent & Trademark Office.

    The Oneida history information available on Joe's (Oneida Bows) site is very good and probably the most thorough collection available on the internet. It doesn't contain information on all/other lever bows however.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by huntinghippie View Post
    I'm revising the above statement...

    There ARE patents for lever bows that have never been produced. John Islas, the original designer and patent holder of many lever bows, has a couple that have never been in production. There are a couple patents on related designs (not really lever bows though) but again... nothing that's currently a "production" bow. All currently produced lever bows are basically based on 1 of 3 possible patents which are now public property.

    This information came straight from the US Patent & Trademark Office.

    The Oneida history information available on Joe's (Oneida Bows) site is very good and probably the most thorough collection available on the internet. It doesn't contain information on all/other lever bows however.



    Thanks Mike

    We are also going to be adding more information on the bows history in chronological order to include new pics including specs on the bows. As well as manuals in pdf when time allows.
    We are also working on designing some new projects as well.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Look forward to seeing the improvements....

  10. #10
    now that the pattents are public domain there should be a good opportunity for others to market improvements...maybe the lever bows will get out of the nitch market someday

  11. #11
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    I am sorry to hear this about Monster bows...I was very interested in their bows.I tried to buy two of them off the classifieds earlier this year but couldnt come to terms.

    I just said heck with it I am going to save up and buy a new one but then I had an unexpected opportunity to get in a hunting club so I used the money for my dues that thinking I would try to buy one next year.

    Hopefully someone will start making that design again in the near future.
    Darton Tundra Extreme
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  12. #12
    thanks John....much like the phoenix rising out of ashes you just may see a resurection ... you cant keep a good thing down, or good people away.

    I love this Place

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