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Thread: Bow Speeds vs Smooth Draw _What's Your Opinion? -Ted Nugent and TM Talk

  1. #26
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    unfortunately there are too many hunters/shooters solely concerned with the SPEED and forget about all else. I do think that most shop owners will try to sell the customer what they need, but many times they end up selling the customer what what they want...as advertised. Another sad fact is the declining weight of the hunting arrow, the speed craze knows no bounds and many think that a little extra speed will make up for yardage estimation skills/preparation. Designers have been beating their heads against the proverbial wall for years...the Black Max was shooting 345fps years ago, the newer bows make it to that speed by chopping the brace height and trimming every possible ounce from the bow and cams. I hate to see the cams, wheels, limbs and other bow components so parred down that they will not hold up to the slightest ding...I don't want to pay upwards of $800.00 for a disposable bow!

  2. #27
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    Interesting read. IMO If you were to design a smooth drawing low poundage bow that peaked around 50lbs or so and shipped one to all your dealers you would need to include a feather duster with it. I think for the most part it would end up on the end of the rack covered in dust and would have a future at the clearance rack at the end of the year. Now Im not saying it would be a bad bow its just not what most customers want. The average archer has no clue what a smooth draw is how many times have I heard someone ask for a bow thats smooth drawing,forgiving and 340fps or faster ? Its always a wonder when they draw the bow back with the grunting,spine twisting aim towards the sky motion with their face turning red and then tell you (man this is smooth).
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  3. #28
    I would gladly give up a few fps for an easier draw force curve. And my preference is 50-55lbs. btw..

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by archeryhistory View Post
    I think some may be missing the point. It is important to realize that many archers have a hard time drawing extreme cam bows and find themselves enjoyiing the sport less. If you shoot year around and are active in tournaments thats great but most do not.
    The point is not to buy more bow than you are comfortable with. Also keep in mind that bows made a few years ago at 70 pounds had no more hitting power than a 50# bow of today.
    Making anyone feel that they should have a heavier bow to be included is just wrong.Shooting a bow with more weight
    than an archer can handle is one of the biggest mistakes in the sport.
    I remeber a few years ago when so man wanted 80# bows - They could say "I have an 80# max super bow" and did'mt mention that it was backed off to less than 70# so they could draw it back. It all comes down to choosing the right bow for you and hitting the target.
    Just my opinion
    Well said Terry

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  5. #30
    I will always choose a bow that has a smooth draw, medium valley, 75-80LO and hard wall.

    I am not a fan of speed bows at all, there is nothing about them that I like.

    I killed plenty of animals with bows in the 220-240 FPS range. Now I am shooting in the 290-300 range with
    bows that feel better and hold better.

    Its a no brainer for me.

  6. #31
    A bow is like a lot of things, if it does't feel right then it's not right for you. Speed is good. With today's technology you can get a 50 or 60# bow that shoots faster then a 70# bow 15 years ago and has a smooth draw and good valley. I now shoot a 60# Guardian and Admiral FLX and both have smooth draws. I tried an Airborne once and my first thought was I'm good for about 5 shots with this bow. For me the draw was way too hard. For a young buck though it may be alright. Find a bow that suits you. It may take some work but you'll be a lot happier with the final product.

  7. #32
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    Terry, I have to remind you that you had a previous cams system that was a fairly smooth draw without the harsh drop to it's holding weight and was blistering fast.
    Fr whatever reasons you may have had you chose to discontinue it, much to the disappointment of faithful Nitrous followers. What was even better was that it could be incorporated with X modules and cables to eliminate cam lean and limb twist, which has destroyed a lot of limbs over the years.

    Please bring back the Nitrous cams.
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  8. #33
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    i see no reason to go above 50- 55 even at my 26 dl... maybe if i was hunting cape buffalo??
    i guess it comes down to the "mines bigger than yours"mentality...
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    Terry, I have to remind you that you had a previous cams system that was a fairly smooth draw without the harsh drop to it's holding weight and was blistering fast.
    Fr whatever reasons you may have had you chose to discontinue it, much to the disappointment of faithful Nitrous followers. What was even better was that it could be incorporated with X modules and cables to eliminate cam lean and limb twist, which has destroyed a lot of limbs over the years.

    Please bring back the Nitrous cams.
    Mmmm? I like the reply, bfisher, but wonder....

    Okay, Terry, spill your guts. Ted wasn't there to dance with Sonja and surely not you. Is there a new bow in the think tank?
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  10. #35
    Ted did a concert about an hour away from Walla Walla, stay tuned for the interview.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SunRiverMan View Post
    I listened to Uncle Ted last year and my deer ran off with my arrow sticking in it's shoulder. 2" made a big difference. He was seen three days later running around with my arrow sticking out. Slick Trick 100 grain broadheads on a Axis 400 arrow. I hoping to finish the hunt this year on that same deer. Shot placement is crucial with a 50 lb bow. SRM
    I watched my son shoot a 9 point buck at 27 yds. with a 25" draw 40# bow and go through both shoulder blades with a 75 grain muzzy on the front of a gold tip falcon (youth arrow). Don't get me wrong but if 40# will do it at 226 FPS maybe it was something other than draw weight.

  12. #37
    Well put me in the other camp, I like my Monster 6.7 set at 72lbs. I shoot it often and shoot it pretty well I think. I can draw it sitting flat legged on the ground if I want to and with the 80% let-off I can hold it for a long, long time and still make a good shot. I shoot a 428gr arrow at 313fps and really like having just 1 pin to 40 yards for hunting.

    So tell me how having more pins, less Mo. and less K.E. would be an improvement?

    I think Nuge and others should be more nuanced in their arguments. There is not a thing in the world wrong with the high poundage speed bows in the right hands. It is archers making bad choices that is the problem here.

  13. #38
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    No one is saying that there are many that can do fine with a heavier bow with extreme cams however it is not the bow for everyone. Some can still draw the bow after sitting or standing still on a cold morning in unusual positions and so many can not. I have talked to more archers in the last 5 years that had a trophy in fron of them and found they could not draw their bow.
    The point is a basic one, Don't get more weight than you can handle in any situation. Some of the most famous archers shoot less than 55# and have many animals in the record book.
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  14. #39
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    I have chased the speed craze and radical cams and lost $, confidence, and picked up some elbow tendinitis

    What i learned:

    1. Smooth is so much fun to shoot
    2. Smooth is pain free (i can shoot my Zeus what seems like forever)
    3. Smooth and slower 70lbs is way better to radical 60 lbs

    Speed is overrated
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  15. #40
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    I'm a lifelong archer. Fell in love with bowhunting 37 yrs ago and haven't quit yet. I've hunted with all types from selfbows to my current 70# draw short b/h speed bow.
    To answer your question, speed vs smooth draw. Yes, and yes. I bought my latest bow for an August antelope hunt. Temps were in the 90's everyday. I practiced 3-4 times a week during our blazing hot summers. I had it maxed out for this hunt. Now that the hunt is behind me I am looking for a lighter set of limbs for said bow. I know that with cooler winter temps it will be hard to pull the hard cam, heavy bow. I also know a 50# bow will kill any animal I ever intend to hunt. I've shot clean thru big elk with bows under 60lbs. A well designed broadhead and a little heavier arrow go a long way to blowing through an animal. Whenever I talk to new archers, I always recommend something middle of the road, never the latest speed demon and always with lighter limbs.

  16. #41
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    I like a bit of both. I shoot a low draw weight of 56lbs and i have a short draw of 26.5". I am limited with speed but can still shoot a fast arrow. I shoot an Axe 6 and have no problems with accuracy. I have good performance and good speed. At the weight i have it at now it draws like butter and i like that for hunting. i have mostly always shot speed bows at low poundage to get a bit more juice out of it. It's all what you like. I do prefer a draw cycle that is solid all the way through. I never cared for the hump at the end.

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  17. #42
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    I think speed is great and all, but it was not a factor when I was choosing my hunting bow. I am hoping to be able to hunt with my bow maxed out at 54#, but this will be my first time ever hunting with a bow. I know I can shoot in different positions, it'll just come down to how much the weather and all that clothing will effect me.

  18. #43
    Well when reading this the first thing that comes to my mind is with a lighter bow can i shoot the ranges that I need to reach when hunting. I live in Arizona and at 40 yards if you’re even lucky enough to get that close, you had better be able to make it with ease. Most of your shots will be 60 to 80 yards on a mule deer. Whitetail are much harder. We are from Az unfortunately and don’t get the luxury of standing around in a tree stand passing off on amazing deer waiting for the monster to come out. Speed is not the most important quality in a bow and should never be the first aspect that you look at on a bow. However it is very important in that if I can now accurately and confidently take a shot well over 100 yards that just makes my life so much better.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealhunt View Post
    Speed is not the most important quality in a bow and should never be the first aspect that you look at on a bow. However it is very important in that if I can now accurately and confidently take a shot well over 100 yards that just makes my life so much better.
    ...anyone besides me think of TRED BARTA after reading this

  20. #45
    I purchased the smoothest fast bow I could afford, a Martin Firecat TR2:smile. Speed equals tighter pins, more pins (60 & 80 yard), and a clean shoot throught (that means two blood trails). If you are going to hunt you should keep yourself ready (in shape) all year. I'm sure we have all considered longer shots with the faster bows that we might not have previously. Target shooters have the benefit of a much more consistant shooting environment. So for them, smooth is more important.

  21. #46
    A good archer and hunter once told me that if You can't sit down and cross your legs and pull your bow It's to much for you.
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  22. #47
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    The above post is good advice. Can you sit down in different positions and still draw your bow. I remember building a prototype Dyna bow (one cam) in the 1970's that was 60# in the first 2" and stayed at that weight all the way back with no drop off. Yes is was faster but no fun to shoot. Also since the string material was not as durable as todays super string the bowstring would break. The draw force curve was basically a straight line.
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  23. #48
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    My son asked me this morning why there was a chair outside the garage. That's what I was practicing in last night . If speed gives you confidence, buy it. I bought the Firecat TR2 for speed. The guy at the bow shop told me yesterday about talking to a former customer who was complaining that he hated that he had to give up hunting a couple of years ago. When asked why he replied that at his age he could no longer pull 80# and that you had to pull 80# to kill anything!! What a shame that he lost a couple of hunting seasons over something so ridiculous.

  24. #49
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    about twnety years ago I had a buck come by, like you said cold and early morning - couldn't draw it back, was like 68 lbs Browning Mirage Hunter - I learned my lesson back then. I pull 60-70 today and don't have any issues but always enjoyed shooting 58lbs. It would be nice not to have such hard cams on bows with such a short valley. I have shot alot of traditional equipment for everything in the compound world seems fast, I'd stay happy at a speed above 270 fps.

  25. #50
    A very interesting thread for sure. To see and read so many different opinions on speed versus draw, it provides information to all of us shop owners or soon to be shop owners as to what to ask and how to provide the best possible equipment to our potential customers. What I have surmised from all of this is what I have long thought to be true, that each and every archer is different and must be treated as such. Not one of us has the same body characteristics nor draw length or ability to draw heavy poundage's. That being said, perhaps there is a lesson for all of us to realize the concept of providing for each archer the best possible set up for his/her abilities and needs. I personally shoot a shorter ATA and brace height and am maxed out at 54 pounds. I am getting between 285 and 312 fps with the four different bows I presently own and shoot daily. The many arguments about speed versus smooth draw are all correct and/or incorrect depending on which point of view any one individual has. In other words, we all all right and wrong at the same time depending on our own individual opinion on the subject. One thing I have noticed recently, is that form may be more important to anything that speed or smooth draw can give. Poor form will never lead any archer to the "Promised land" whether it be that once in a lifetime buck or the championship trophy some of us covet.

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