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Thread: Is there a difference between IBO speeds and ATA speeds?

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    Is there a difference between IBO speeds and ATA speeds?

    I was looking at the new Hoyt bows on their website, and I noticed that the speeds listed state "(ATA)" instead of IBO. Is there a difference between the two, and if so, why would a company change which measurement they use to get their speeds? Is the ATA speed more realistic than the IBO speed?



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    Hoyt Archery: Maker of the World's Best Bows For those with questions regarding ATA/IBO velocity: ATA speeds are 70 lbs, 30 in. draw at 5 grains per lb. IBO speed is commonly believed to also be tested at 70/30. However, in actuality, the IBO standards allow for speeds to be tested at poundages as high as 82 lbs as long as the arrow is at 5 grains per lb. By going with ATA spec, we eliminate any question as to how we test our speed. REAL SPEED. REAL NUMBERS.

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    Is the ATA hoyt is quoting the Archery Trade Association ?

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    Thanks! That helps some. Most other manufacturers I see list the IBO speed, but they specify that it is at 70# and 30", just like Hoyt, so I don't really see where it makes that much of a difference, except in lighter bows, perhaps.

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    Actually AMO is 540 grains at 60# and 30" (9 grains per inch). I don't believe it's a misprint, look at 2011 PSE ratings, they use "ATA/IBO" speed rating, if Hoyt was stating "ATA" speeds as being AMO speeds, this would mean the 35" Carbon Matrix would have an "IBO" speed rating of 354 FPS. (please understand not trying to talk bad about Hoyt, just saying I don't think that bow is pushing those speeds). With that being said, the fact that the Carbon Element goes down to 25" draw length has definately got me looking.
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    corrections on my last for Hoyt 35" Carbon Matrix if it had AMO speed of 318
    using following calculations:
    318 + 63.08 + 16.6 = 397 FPS "IBO" speed
    540 (grains)- 350 (grains) = 190 / 5 = 38 x 1.66 = 63.08 FPS added
    70# - 60# = 10# x 1.66 = 16.6 FPS added
    ‎5000 years ago, Moses said 2 Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses & camels, & I will lead you 2 the Promised Land." When Welfare was introduced, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, & light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land." Now the government has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels & mortgaged the Promised Land to China

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    This is the comment on Hoyt's facebook page concerning ATA speed.

    For those with questions regarding ATA/IBO velocity: ATA speeds are 70 lbs, 30 in. draw at 5 grains per lb. IBO speed is commonly believed to also be tested at 70/30. However, in actuality, the IBO standards allow for speeds to be tested at poundages as high as 82 lbs as long as the arrow is at 5 grains per lb. By going with ATA spec, we eliminate any question as to how we test our speed. REAL SPEED. REAL NUMBERS.
    Keep Them Gold

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    Quote Originally Posted by vnhill1981 View Post
    corrections on my last for Hoyt 35" Carbon Matrix if it had AMO speed of 318
    using following calculations:
    318 + 63.08 + 16.6 = 397 FPS "IBO" speed
    540 (grains)- 350 (grains) = 190 / 5 = 38 x 1.66 = 63.08 FPS added
    70# - 60# = 10# x 1.66 = 16.6 FPS added
    Good math but if you had read post #2 it could of saved you alot of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampLife View Post
    Good math but if you had read post #2 it could of saved you alot of work.
    Yeah I know, just seems stupid now, but there was a comment just before mine that stated they believed that Post#2 was a misprint and that they believed Hoyt was using AMO standards. But they also said AMO standards were 540 grains @70# and 30"draw. I guess that post was deleted for some reason.
    ‎5000 years ago, Moses said 2 Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses & camels, & I will lead you 2 the Promised Land." When Welfare was introduced, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, & light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land." Now the government has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels & mortgaged the Promised Land to China

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish Bonez View Post
    Hoyt Archery: Maker of the World's Best Bows For those with questions regarding ATA/IBO velocity: ATA speeds are 70 lbs, 30 in. draw at 5 grains per lb. IBO speed is commonly believed to also be tested at 70/30. However, in actuality, the IBO standards allow for speeds to be tested at poundages as high as 82 lbs as long as the arrow is at 5 grains per lb. By going with ATA spec, we eliminate any question as to how we test our speed. REAL SPEED. REAL NUMBERS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    This is the comment on Hoyt's facebook page concerning ATA speed.

    For those with questions regarding ATA/IBO velocity: ATA speeds are 70 lbs, 30 in. draw at 5 grains per lb. IBO speed is commonly believed to also be tested at 70/30. However, in actuality, the IBO standards allow for speeds to be tested at poundages as high as 82 lbs as long as the arrow is at 5 grains per lb. By going with ATA spec, we eliminate any question as to how we test our speed. REAL SPEED. REAL NUMBERS.
    I read that somewhere.....
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    I'd like to know if these ATA specs are int their manuals. I just got off their website and there is nothing mentioned about arrow/speed requirements, etc. It may be in one of their manuals, but that costs $30 for non-ATA members. The last I ever heard of ATA requirements was many years ago and it was indeed called AMO at the time. And it was as stated above at 9 gr/lb of draw weight; 60#, 30" draw, and 540 gr. arrow. Bow manufacturers back then listed both AMO and IBO speeds. For isntance a bow might have an AMO speed of 245 fps and an IBO speed of 305 fps. Has the ATA adopted a new policy?

    Just to be clear on this neither of these (ATA or IBO) are within the realm of realism. For one thing very few people shoot or should be shooting a 30" draw and the majority can't even draw a 70 lb. bow. And the specs allow for some variances. There should be no variance whatsoever. 30" is 30", not 30 3/4". 70# is 70#, not 73#.

    The old AMO specs are not all that accurate either, any more. I don't know of anybody that shoots a 540 gr arrow, especially at 60#.

    Personally, I think a nice medium would be to rate bows at 28", somewhere in the middle of what most people shoot. And it wouldn't do any harm to check the bows at both 60# and 70# and publish both numbers. Arrow weight? How about going back to 6 gr/lb for an average.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    I'd like to know if these ATA specs are int their manuals. I just got off their website and there is nothing mentioned about arrow/speed requirements, etc. It may be in one of their manuals, but that costs $30 for non-ATA members. The last I ever heard of ATA requirements was many years ago and it was indeed called AMO at the time. And it was as stated above at 9 gr/lb of draw weight; 60#, 30" draw, and 540 gr. arrow. Bow manufacturers back then listed both AMO and IBO speeds. For isntance a bow might have an AMO speed of 245 fps and an IBO speed of 305 fps. Has the ATA adopted a new policy?

    Just to be clear on this neither of these (ATA or IBO) are within the realm of realism. For one thing very few people shoot or should be shooting a 30" draw and the majority can't even draw a 70 lb. bow. And the specs allow for some variances. There should be no variance whatsoever. 30" is 30", not 30 3/4". 70# is 70#, not 73#.

    The old AMO specs are not all that accurate either, any more. I don't know of anybody that shoots a 540 gr arrow, especially at 60#.

    Personally, I think a nice medium would be to rate bows at 28", somewhere in the middle of what most people shoot. And it wouldn't do any harm to check the bows at both 60# and 70# and publish both numbers. Arrow weight? How about going back to 6 gr/lb for an average.
    Amen brother, you push it I'll back it, these would be more "real world" numbers and would let you know what you are more likely to expect, BOW MANUFACTURERS OR ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THEM PLEASE READ THIS
    ‎5000 years ago, Moses said 2 Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses & camels, & I will lead you 2 the Promised Land." When Welfare was introduced, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, & light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land." Now the government has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels & mortgaged the Promised Land to China

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    ttt
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    I'd like to know if these ATA specs are int their manuals. I just got off their website and there is nothing mentioned about arrow/speed requirements, etc. It may be in one of their manuals, but that costs $30 for non-ATA members. The last I ever heard of ATA requirements was many years ago and it was indeed called AMO at the time. And it was as stated above at 9 gr/lb of draw weight; 60#, 30" draw, and 540 gr. arrow. Bow manufacturers back then listed both AMO and IBO speeds. For isntance a bow might have an AMO speed of 245 fps and an IBO speed of 305 fps. Has the ATA adopted a new policy?

    Just to be clear on this neither of these (ATA or IBO) are within the realm of realism. For one thing very few people shoot or should be shooting a 30" draw and the majority can't even draw a 70 lb. bow. And the specs allow for some variances. There should be no variance whatsoever. 30" is 30", not 30 3/4". 70# is 70#, not 73#.

    The old AMO specs are not all that accurate either, any more. I don't know of anybody that shoots a 540 gr arrow, especially at 60#.

    Personally, I think a nice medium would be to rate bows at 28", somewhere in the middle of what most people shoot. And it wouldn't do any harm to check the bows at both 60# and 70# and publish both numbers. Arrow weight? How about going back to 6 gr/lb for an average.
    ...HEERE, HEERE...I am down with that BIG TIME

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    Quote Originally Posted by DONDEERE View Post
    ...HEERE, HEERE...I am down with that BIG TIME

    ...stop the hype and "lets get real"
    Explain why, please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfisher View Post
    Explain why, please.
    What Dondeere is saying is that he also agrees with what was said
    ‎5000 years ago, Moses said 2 Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses & camels, & I will lead you 2 the Promised Land." When Welfare was introduced, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, & light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land." Now the government has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels & mortgaged the Promised Land to China

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    This is the comment on Hoyt's facebook page concerning ATA speed.

    For those with questions regarding ATA/IBO velocity: ATA speeds are 70 lbs, 30 in. draw at 5 grains per lb. IBO speed is commonly believed to also be tested at 70/30. However, in actuality, the IBO standards allow for speeds to be tested at poundages as high as 82 lbs as long as the arrow is at 5 grains per lb. By going with ATA spec, we eliminate any question as to how we test our speed. REAL SPEED. REAL NUMBERS.
    Just found this about ATA vs. IBO
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnhill1981 View Post
    corrections on my last for Hoyt 35" Carbon Matrix if it had AMO speed of 318
    using following calculations:
    318 + 63.08 + 16.6 = 397 FPS "IBO" speed
    540 (grains)- 350 (grains) = 190 / 5 = 38 x 1.66 = 63.08 FPS added
    70# - 60# = 10# x 1.66 = 16.6 FPS added
    ATA not AMMO. one is 5 grains per pound, ATA, and Ammo is 9 grains per pound just to clarify it!

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    What difference does it make? If you shoot a bow at 70lbs, 28 inches through a chrono with a 350 grain arrow (5gr/lb), it'll be pretty close to both ATA and IBO speeds specified at 30 inches if you deduct 10fps for every inch of decrease in draw length. For poundage, for every 10lbs up or down from 70lbs you'd add or subtract 25fps and it comes out pretty close to that too... for every 25 grains of additional arrow weight over 5gr/lb, you'll lose approx 10fps... All this arguing isn't worth the energy spent doing it... it all comes out pretty close to the same number - and that is REAL WORLD #'s.
    Hmmm... 335fps with a 32" a-a bow with a 7"bh? Tha's a smokin'! I won't complain for getting 342 out of it either! Bowtech Experience!
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    I don't know the answer, but hoyt bows always shoot faster than the advertised speeds. Mathews always shoot slower if you compare apples to apples. like the new z7 extreme is supposed to shoot 300+ and the CRX 32 is rated at 323. With the exact same arrow of 385 grains, the hoyt is a tad faster. Hmmm, you got me.

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    Hoyt hasn't always shot advertised speeds! Only Darton has!!! Hoyt does show 'advertising genius' though!! ATA as the 'new and consistent' standard - novel idea!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by texhoyt View Post
    I don't know the answer, but hoyt bows always shoot faster than the advertised speeds. Mathews always shoot slower if you compare apples to apples. like the new z7 extreme is supposed to shoot 300+ and the CRX 32 is rated at 323. With the exact same arrow of 385 grains, the hoyt is a tad faster. Hmmm, you got me.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by vnhill1981 View Post
    Actually AMO is 540 grains at 60# and 30" (9 grains per inch). I don't believe it's a misprint, look at 2011 PSE ratings, they use "ATA/IBO" speed rating, if Hoyt was stating "ATA" speeds as being AMO speeds, this would mean the 35" Carbon Matrix would have an "IBO" speed rating of 354 FPS. (please understand not trying to talk bad about Hoyt, just saying I don't think that bow is pushing those speeds). With that being said, the fact that the Carbon Element goes down to 25" draw length has definately got me looking.
    \
    Hoyt doesnt rate it that high, it means Hoyt at 320 is equivelent to 350 the way most other manufacturers rate.

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    Okay, I have to throw my two cents in. I shoot Hoyt because I like their bows and durability, but about 4-5 yrs ago when I was looking to switch to Mathews-Switchback XT I became very disenchanted by the speeds they were claiming vs. reality for a person shooting 67 lbs @ 29" draw. I have never liked the IBO standards as it leaves too much to chance with a now that may be more efficient with a 5gr/lb. arrow than what I use for hunting or even 3D. Many of the top bow manufacturers have become very crafty with regards to this standard which is why they use IBO and not ATA or AMO, I think for today's standards ATA is the closest we have to creating a level playing field for real life. I do concur with the one comment about creating a new standard that all bow manufacturers must use ie. 29" draw length (actual) 65lbs. Draw weight @ 6gr/lb. or a 390gr. Arrow all this shot at a standard distance from a chronograph. I know at the end of the day when you slip an arrow through the lungs of a big buck it doesn't matter whether your arrow is going 300 or 320 fps, but when you are forking out between $800-$1399, you don't want to be hoodwinked when your buddy shows up with a Hoyt and his bow is shooting 10-15 fps faster with all things equal. Ha ha...I had to. Either way we work too hard to be jacked around by statistics which the average guy doesn't want to get into. Just give me the facts we want to shoot! I can't speak for all years, but all the Hoyt bows I have tested or seen tested do shoot faster than advertised? Go figure...I do love my Carbon Element-RKT Most of the top bow makers make great bows, it's your preference.
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    ATA is just a test with tighter tolerances than the IBO rating. No more and no less. Less fudge factor with ATA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster of Xs View Post
    ATA is just a test with tighter tolerances than the IBO rating. No more and no less. Less fudge factor with ATA.
    I'll bet someone will figure out a way to 'spin' it! After all...only in America could a show titled Spin City be a huge success.

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