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Thread: Are BowTech Center Pivot Bows History?

  1. #1
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    Are BowTech Center Pivot Bows History?

    Not hearing much of anything (or seeing anything from bowtech's 2011 line-up) showing a center pivot design.

    This link indicates nothing about a 2011 center pivot bow: http://www.avidarchers.com/2011BowtechNewBows.htm



    I've also heard the Admiral is a history lesson from what I consider to be a reliable source on the business side of things.... Possibly, center pivot technology is only being carried onward in the Diamond brand? (my idea, didn't come from the sourse) Regardless, if either of these statements are correct... Obviously center pivot technology isn't what it was supposed to be. And unless B/T is waiting (hiding something) to release an entire line of C/P bows in January, it looks as if the reflex riser wins. If so, why? The concept of a deflex riser being more forgiving in terms of vertical shot forgiveness makes sense to me. I would think it must also cut down on limb twisting when the cams load up, thus enhancing both forgiveness/shoot-ability & lower limb failure rates. (no pun intended)
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    I think we'll see Bowtech's fastest CP bow come January. I don't see them dropping CP's entirely after such a huge success since their introduction.
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    I think part of the reason for setting center pivot aside is speed. Everyone wants it. The Center Pivot bows were super quiet and felt great on the shot, but are not as fast as for example the D350. If it were faster, I bet we would see more center pivots. Im sure manufacturing costs are involved with that as well.

    As far as the riser is concerned, hunting bows are generally reflexed risers allowing faster speeds. Many of the "top" target bows out are slightly reflexed to delfexed. My Thoughts are that it makes a more stable of a bow.
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    I reckon we will have to wait a bit.

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    www.maitlandusa.com

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1106216

    center pivot bows, and the VTR cam for 2011 will make the 2011 Retribution a 340 fps bow.

    Bowtech isnt the best or only Center pivot in town
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    I'm hoping there is a future in C/P. (My Admiral has been problematic, but I think there's still something very promising about the deflex riser design.)

    Here's a combo to think about: Deflex Riser combined with G5prime Parallel Cam Technology. ~ And maybe a carbon fiber riser option?
    --------------------------------
    "RoadTrips" Tree Saddle, Muddy Sticks & Petzl Aiders?..... "A Killer Combo!"
    My limbs are just fine.... Unlike the '02 TomKat that "detonated" (limbs failed twice) many years ago!

  7. #7
    The center pivot bow is the quietest and lowest vibration bow on the planet, every poll on this forum confirms this to be the case. Thus it is the ideal hunting bow. BT would be crazy to stop the center pivots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtVL View Post
    www.maitlandusa.com

    center pivot bows, and the VTR cam for 2011 will make the 2011 Retribution a 340 fps bow.

    Bowtech isnt the best or only Center pivot in town
    I know. Actually, that is why I specifically specified BowTech in the subject. I've got my eyes on your Maitland bows. I sent you (actually Rob responded from Maitland) a few emails re: dealer suggestions in the northeast. Can't wait to find a dealer out east here.

    I've heard about the new speed cam too. Hope it doesn't draw too harshly, and still has a touch of valley! It's difficult for me to compare and evaluate bows due to in-stock dealer selections. ~because I shoot "with the wrong arm."
    --------------------------------
    "RoadTrips" Tree Saddle, Muddy Sticks & Petzl Aiders?..... "A Killer Combo!"
    My limbs are just fine.... Unlike the '02 TomKat that "detonated" (limbs failed twice) many years ago!

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    How would we know with the new marketing strategy that Bowtech is using? Release random bits of information on a few message boards and through a bow shop in Idaho. All the while not updating their own website. Pure genius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post
    I think part of the reason for setting center pivot aside is speed. Everyone wants it. The Center Pivot bows were super quiet and felt great on the shot, but are not as fast as for example the D350. If it were faster, I bet we would see more center pivots. Im sure manufacturing costs are involved with that as well.

    As far as the riser is concerned, hunting bows are generally reflexed risers allowing faster speeds. Many of the "top" target bows out are slightly reflexed to delfexed. My Thoughts are that it makes a more stable of a bow.
    You got me a little confused here... Reflex means "out in front" and Deflex is synonymous with back towards (or behind) the grip... You're saying that "deflexed" makes for a more stable bow, right???
    --------------------------------
    "RoadTrips" Tree Saddle, Muddy Sticks & Petzl Aiders?..... "A Killer Combo!"
    My limbs are just fine.... Unlike the '02 TomKat that "detonated" (limbs failed twice) many years ago!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenLimbs View Post
    I know. Actually, that is why I specifically specified BowTech in the subject. I've got my eyes on your Maitland bows. I sent you (actually Rob responded from Maitland) a few emails re: dealer suggestions in the northeast. Can't wait to find a dealer out east here.

    I've heard about the new speed cam too. Hope it doesn't draw too harshly, and still has a touch of valley! It's difficult for me to compare and evaluate bows due to in-stock dealer selections. ~because I shoot "with the wrong arm."
    Only reason i brought up Maitland was to say that just because Bowtech doesnt make them the technology is dead, far from it
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  12. #12
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    I think the "problem" with CP risers and performance is the limbs & cams.

    There is VERY LITTLE working limb and limb tip movement on these bows- you basically have about half the length working compared to a standard style design. This is waht makes them so danged pleasant to shoot (along with the riser). In order to get more speed out of the cam system has to store a bunch of energy in a very short amount of travel- The 2009 CP cams are the perfect example- compared to previous years they are faster, they also load up heavy at the back end of the force draw curve and let-off very abruptly (kinda like the 82/101 cams) . The 2007/2008 cams are a bit smoother in the transitions and load up, but they too also have some of that characteristic.

    I don't think the problem is finding more speed out of them, but rather coming up with a cam system that is nice enough to ensure people would buy them. If the limbs had alot more pre-load, like say the PSE style limbs, that may do the trick, however you would need a similar angle of the limbs coming out of the pocket as you have on the X force series bows- and thats not going to work on the (existing ) CP riser because the limb comes off the pocket much closer to parallel at rest. You can see the General started to go that way, with more preload on them at rest, and you can also see how detrimental it was for limb longevity, and with a faster/harder cam system (to get some speed over the pretty tame General) it would likely be a nightmare to keep it together and functioning with current limb technology.

    They maybe could go with even longer CP risers that end up being a bit more reflexed than deflexed and try to use some kind of heavy pre-loaded X force style pocket angle and limb, I'm no sure how they would keep the brace heights realistic.


    It will be very interesting to see if they can/will address this with a "CP speed bow".

  13. #13
    I love my Senti. The CP bows are great hunting bows. BT would be crazy to drop that design.

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    I'd love to try the long ATA Maitland but there are no dealers near me and I refuse to buy an "untested", at least by me, bow that I can't shoot.
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    if they drop it all the others will jump on it.....imagine a tec, center piviot, shoot through, honeycomb riser...

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost american View Post
    if they drop it all the others will jump on it.....imagine a tec, center piviot, shoot through, honeycomb riser...
    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenLimbs View Post
    I'm hoping there is a future in C/P. (My Admiral has been problematic, but I think there's still something very promising about the deflex riser design.)

    Here's a combo to think about: Deflex Riser combined with G5prime Parallel Cam Technology. ~ And maybe a carbon fiber riser option?
    .... That's exactly what I was imagining in an earlier post here. (with the addition of the g5 Parallel Cams) ....
    --------------------------------
    "RoadTrips" Tree Saddle, Muddy Sticks & Petzl Aiders?..... "A Killer Combo!"
    My limbs are just fine.... Unlike the '02 TomKat that "detonated" (limbs failed twice) many years ago!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenLimbs View Post
    You got me a little confused here... Reflex means "out in front" and Deflex is synonymous with back towards (or behind) the grip... You're saying that "deflexed" makes for a more stable bow, right???
    sorry, got them switched around. My bad.
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    I hope they dont. My sentinel flx is one of the best bows I have ever shot. Super forgiving quiet and deadly accurate.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by KurtVL View Post
    www.maitlandusa.com

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1106216

    center pivot bows, and the VTR cam for 2011 will make the 2011 Retribution a 340 fps bow.

    Bowtech isnt the best or only Center pivot in town
    My thought exactly, perhaps some BT people saw the Maitland bows and said 'Holy $#@!'. And no more CP from them.

    BTW, to add to what KurtVL said, not only there will be a 340fps CP bow for the offering in 2011 from Maitland, there is a Super Zeus CP which is a 42" ATA bow!

  21. #21
    I believe that JeffB is right on with the limb/movement idea. I also think that the CP designs were not as efficient as other bows thereby losing more of the stored energy. This is counterproductive in making a bow that has both speed and is pleasant to shoot as you must store a lot more energy (read stiff draw cycle) to get equal speed out of it. Most tests I've read had the CP's not as efficient as the destroyer. I do think the CP in its current form is over at bowtech.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppieWellie View Post
    My thought exactly, perhaps some BT people saw the Maitland bows and said 'Holy $#@!'. And no more CP from them.
    Tongue in cheek, that's what I was thinking too! Honestly, I suspect that if they don't have much to offer in a C/P bow this year, they are probably still burning cad-cam chips trying to figure out how to perfect the C/P design for a 3'rd generation offering... Gotta go, the woods is calling me.
    --------------------------------
    "RoadTrips" Tree Saddle, Muddy Sticks & Petzl Aiders?..... "A Killer Combo!"
    My limbs are just fine.... Unlike the '02 TomKat that "detonated" (limbs failed twice) many years ago!

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    I have a Admiral FLX shooting a 350 grn arrow on 57# and it is my favorite hunting bow of all time!!!! When it comes to a hunting bow my top priorities are accuracy and quietness and I found it. Its so quiet deer dont even know what just happened when you shoot one of their buddies thats standing under you with them. I put a Stealh Stabilizer on it and believe it or not it made it even quieter and it holds steady like a rock!! No hand shock what so ever and shoots where you hold the pin!!!! Im not saying I wont buy another bow, Id love to have a Destroyer 340. But when I do, the Admiral aint going nowhere! It's here to stay!!!

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    of course like anything, maybe bowtech has moved on from the center pivots. wont know until january
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