Just watched a paid program discussing the "Human Energy Concealment System", is there anyone out there who actually uses one and whats your opinion on them?
Do you need to actually stick your hand into a roaring fire and hold it there to know that you'll end up with serious burns as a result? No...because you can reliably predict that result based on knowledge you already have regarding the properties of fire and human flesh. Similarly, if you have any understanding at all of the science that is *claimed* to be behind the HECS suit you can reliably deduce that it's a load of unsupported nonsense. Add to that the dishonesty repeatedly demonstrated here and elsewhere by the company with regard to those claims and it would require an enormous leap of faith to conclude that HECS is anything other than a transparent scam designed to do nothing other than part you from your cash.I read the posts and wonder if the negative posters ever tried it.
You're making baseless and invalid assumptions here.It shouldn’t do but it keeps on surprising me the negative comments people make about something they have not even used and in the case of HECS something they probably haven’t even seen.
I am. So are many others. Are you under the impression that knowledge and understanding of the principles that are claimed as the basis for the product in question is somehow not useful when it comes to making a determination about it's likely effectiveness?I am not sure about the science behind HECS
No. You've *concluded* that it makes a difference, almost certainly due to the fact that you want (and need) to believe that it does so that you don't feel like you got ripped off.but from my experience (and others) it makes a difference when ground hunting.
I need to have some rational reason to believe that something will - or at least should - work before I invest time and money into it. Understanding the principles behind a product's claims goes a long way toward helping me make intelligent decisions in that area.Do you really need to know about the science to know if something works or not?? Do you have to know how everything works before you will use it??
Yes, actually, I do know how they work.Do you know how a microwave oven works, a GPS, a telephone, a computer, the internet, etc....?
Because they're proven technologies, most of which originated with reputable researchers and companies. If they were some new whiz-bang invention coming from someone who is a proven liar then...well...then I'd make my decision based on my own knowledge and an assessment of the probability that the product can/will perform as advertised.They all work, you don’t need to understand the science behind a microwave to heat something up. You just use it.
My problem? Well, mostly I don't like obvious scams and people who blatantly and repeatedly lie to promote their scams. I also don't like to see people being ripped off. Perhaps in your value system these sorts of things are perfectly acceptable. In mine, they aren't.I don’t know what your problem is DParker...
I know enough. Just because you slept through your high school school science courses doesn't mean that everyone else did.but I thought rather than rubbish the posts made by those who have actually tried HECS you would have asked some questions to further your knowledge. Perhaps you know it all already?
No, it's you who are being fooled. But you're being fooled willingly, because you don't want to believe that you were fooled into buying something useless.If HECS is a scam then from what I have seen the scam is on the animals I have hunted, they are fooled not the wearer.
Oh, pardon me if my fancy book larnin' confused you there, but I thought the fact that I'd evaluated it as an obvious scam and the company as a being habitual liars would have made it pretty obvious to even a child that I wouldn't waste my money on it. But somehow that seems to have slipped by you.So after all of your science you still have not said if you have tried a suit or not.
Yes. Do you always resort to childish non-sequiturs so quickly? And where is your answer to MY questions? Or do you think that obligation only falls on others?Do you even bowhunt?
And I gather that you haven't understood a single word that I've posted.You are quite correct when you say you can have close encounters without HECS, I said this too.
My experience with HECS is they happen more frequently, much more frequently for me and the others I know who have used the suits.
What is your experience with HECS? None I gather.....
No, actually, it's a pretty well-known facet of human psychology.Also;
You do not need camo clothing to get close to game.
You do not need to cover your hands and face to get close to game.
You don’t need a compound bow, sights and release aid to shoot game.
You don’t need rangefinders to shoot game.
But you will get close more often wearing camo
You will get close more often covering you hands and face.
Using a compound with sights and a release will make you a more consistent and accurate shot
Using rangefinders will stop you guessing the wrong distance
You do not NEED any of the above but they help and by the amount of people buying and using them they appear to work.
To say that because someone has paid for an item then they must say it works is utterly ridiculous.
Really.On this forum there have been plenty of people complaining about products they have paid good money for and they have not worked.
I responded to a question re HECS asking if anyone had tried HECS and what they thought of it.
Do you think, really think, that if a purchased something which didn’t work but because I spend good money on it I would feel compelled to anonymously reply that it works??? Really???
So even after having it explained to you in simple, explicit terms...you still don't know what my "problem" is with HECS, you still don't know what it is? I don't know what to tell you then, cowboy. Maybe have someone sit down with you when you read these posts and help you out with them.I don’t what your problem is with HECS DParker, seems you have an axe to grind.
Why not leave the forum moderation to the moderators?Why not leave the discussion to those who are open minded and can decide for themselves?
No, I don't "think" they lie about it. I "know" that for a fact as it has been demonstrated multiple times, including in this very forum.So let’s see if I understand the story so far;
1) You have dismissed the HECS suit because of your understanding (fancy book larnin’) of the scientific claims made about it and you think the company selling it tells lies.
Well, to be fair, there could be other explanations. Say, for instance, if they had some financial interest in the success of the product.2) You think all of those who have tried HECS and liked it are only saying it is good because they paid good money for it so (due to human nature as you claim) have to say it works.
I also have no actual experience with device the inventors claim generate free energy, triple your gas mileage by injecting water into your engine, etc., but I know they don't work either.3) You have never tried a suit so therefore have no actual experience with HECS
No, you don't. You even told us you don't. Now you want to change your story?On my side;
1) I have an understanding of the concept behind the suit and how it works
Aaaand...there it is. You sell the product you're here praising, and therefore have a financial interest in seeing it become popular. Funny that you're only now disclosing this fact. A more honest approach would have been to do so right up front, don't you think?2) I have worn the suit for 17 days in the field out of 35 days guiding/hunting so far this year
3) All my hunting is ground hunting, spot and stalk and still hunting
4) During that 17 days I had 4 deer, 2 fallow, 1 sambar and 1 red deer at 5 yards or less and a rusa deer at 10yards. Without the suit the closest I got was 19 yards on a large red stag.
5) I was asked to try out the HECS suit by a clothing company here. I did not pay for it. I had the option of returning the suit if I didn’t like it. I was not paid to try it.
6) I tried it and gave it to three others to try, everyone liked it
7) Everyone who tried it shot deer wearing it
8) Everyone who tried the suit (at no cost) got their own HECS
9) Liked it so much we decided to sell them in our shop in New Zealand. I do not expect to make any sales by talking about HECS on AT
I really like how you broke things down into little pieces and even tossed in irrelevant one-liners so you'd have a lot more items to put numbers next to. I'll bet you even think you're actually fooling someone.10) I have shot 2 deer wearing HECS, a sambar and a rusa stag. I have guided 2 others on deer while wearing HECS, the hunters I guided also wore HECS
11) Animals seem quieter when you are in close
12) Animals put up with more movement
13) Hunting is more fun in a HECS
If this is correct then please tell me why any of your arguments against what I am saying about HECS (no experience vs experience) could possibly be taken seriously?
Just one example: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1071692&page=1. See post #28 where it is claimed that the links provided were to "science pieces that support the technology", then post #29 where it is clearly demonstrated how false that is. Further note that the HECS website STILL cites most of these links, but has reworded the claim to say that HECS LLC merely found them to be "helpful as we tried to unravel the mystery of the 6th sense"...even though most of them still do not have anything at all to do with ungulates or any other mammals' ability to sense EMF. No doubt their attorneys warned them about the dangers of class action lawsuits.So on your side 1,2 and 3 you agree is correct but replacing “think” with know.
I have no knowledge of the lies you think the company has made.
Then you do not actually understand the concept. If you did you would also understand why the claims being made are so obviously bogus.On my side;
1) I previously said I was not sure about the science behind HECS. There is a big difference about being fully conversant with the science as opposed to understanding the concept. The concept is straightforward, the science of EMF and its containment I have not studied.
Nonetheless, you have a financial interest in promoting the product.I am sure you have though
2) Yes I sell the suit. Remember Remington shaver’s owner’s words in their advertising, “I liked it so much I bought the company”. Same deal but I didn’t buy the company. We have been selling bows and arrows for 15 years, we do not sell anything in the shop we do not believe in. We stand behind the products we sell. You will not be in business long if you sell products that do not work and/or make claims about things which are untrue.
Here's little light reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence3) The original question at the beginning of this thread was has anybody tried HECS and what did they think of it. I answered giving my experience and in your opinion it is biased because I sell the suits. Your apparently unbiased answer was negative even though you had never worn a HECS suit. Previously mentioned I do not think selling the suit in New Zealand will generate any business for me by posting on AT.
4) What I have said about my experiences and others who have worn HECS is all true. It is all about actually time wearing HECS. It is not theory or conjecture, it is observations from many days in the field.
Some very experienced bowhunters tried the suit and then purchased their own. If they didn’t think it worked they would not have purchased a suit.
5) The suit was tried by four people for a total of 23 days before we decided to sell them. In that time 6 deer were shot by the wearers.
6) Yesterday my suit claimed another deer. I lent it to a friend who had been struggling to get within bow range of the fallow deer he hunts. Hunting pressure had made them somewhat flighty. My friend is a highly skeptical person; he has been around a while. Yesterday evening he arrowed a fallow doe from 25 yards, his first for 6 months. He has shot a lot of deer and has been bowhunting for 40 plus years. He said the deer were very relaxed. Usually when in that close he said the deer would get fidgety and move off. Now to be fair he only wore the suit for a few hours and he personally (despite being impressed) could not say it made a difference or not. He is however the 5th person to shoot a deer in that particular suit. He has more hunting to do next week and will try the suit out again.
Or, you could try searching my responses to you for sentences ending in question marks.7) I am happy to answer your questions about HECS. Given the dialogue between us could you please list them all so I do not miss any?
I have absolutely no monetary or other interest in the HECS product. You, on the other hand, do.I am glad you think you are unbiased. I do not know how many people reading this thread will think you are unbiased though.
Yes, which is why I asked questions in the first place. Questions that you're still ignoring. They're all still there.Mmmmm.... You are the one wanting the answers.....
Were you a consultant to HECS when it came time for them to find "scientific studies" to claim as support for the product? Your tactics here are every bit as honest.I am guessing you have no relevant questions re HECS because you are set in your opinion of it.
About ken1018
Real Name:Ken.
What type of archery are you into?:Hunting, 3D, target.
Location:Toledo, OH.
Interests:Deer, turkey, and hog hunting.
Occupation:Chrysler LLC.
Gender:male.
Marital Status:Married.
Children:2.
Extra Profile Room:Pro Staffer for Bear Archery, Trophy Ridge, Rocket Broadheads, America's Best Bowstrings, Wildlife Energy Drinks, Big Green Targets, Team Bowtard, SEEMZ Scent Elimination Technology, G5, Nikon, Scentblocker, Jackie's Deer Lures, HECS (Human Energy Concealment System), Norway Industries, Bowcast, and Realtree.
Who? The only crusade I'm on is debunking scams. That's a very old crusade, and certainly not one started by little ol' me.DParker .... Are you TR Micheal's starting a new crusade ?