September 4th, 2002, 09:57 PM
Double Cam vs Single Cam
Here is a question for you diehard compound archery shooter.
Do you think that the single cams are that much better than the old 2 cam systems? I have the new single cam bow, but I still like my old 2 cam bow that I have hunted with for the last 5 years.
The single might be a little easier to hold, but is it worth spending the bucks.
September 5th, 2002, 12:19 AM
i have shot both and they both have their good points. i shoot a single cam now because of 4 shoulder surgeries and the let off is higher. i also went from shooting 72 to 75 lbs to 60 to 62 lbs. the two cam bows are a bit quieter than the single cam and a little smoother drawing. the single cam has a harder wall and better letoff and has more of a powerstroke than the 2 cam bow. after weighing both and with my condition due to surgery i shoot the single cam bow. you can quiet down any bow with the new stuff out on the market so either way you are a winner. it's a matter of choice. good luck
September 5th, 2002, 10:08 AM
I currently own both, a PSE Mach-8 with maxi-hl cams (two cam) and Hoyt Ultra-tec with Versa (single) cam. I am currently shooting the hoyt and will hunt with it this year, however I could easily switch back and loose nothing in terms of accuracy, I believe anyway. I am using the hoyt cause I bought it over the winter and have been shooting it all year. I wanted to give a 1-cam and good try and have. My personal opinion:
Its all a wash. Both are great, both have plus/minus. I personally like the draw characteristics of a two cam better. However the 1-cam has a more solid wall. My hoyt has less vibration and noise than the pse, but I feel this is a factor of the bow design not the cams (my hunting partner has a two cam hoyt and its just as quiet and vibration free as my 1 cam. Love the tec riser).
My next bow will PROBABLY be a two cam. I like the ability to play with the cam timing/synch and have no problem with doing this. For folks without a bow press or the inclination to tinker, a 1 cam is probably the better choice and more "tinker free". That said, once I restring/cable my two cam and shoot it in a bit and then reset the cams, it doesn't need tweaking again either.
So, shoot em both, not all 1-cams are alike, not all 2-cams are alike. They both take different knowledge to keep em working at their best.
September 5th, 2002, 06:38 PM
I have always heard that on the one cam bows tuning was not as critical as the double cam. I purchase the one cam to find out that the tuning is just as important. I agree with you that I could switch back to my double cam and never slow up.
September 8th, 2002, 12:17 AM
I have both single and dual cam bows. I like the dual cam better. More tuning options. All things being equal, the dual cam is faster. I also like the draw cycle better, and the lower let off is not an issue with me. I have my single cams set at 65%. With Winners Choice strings staying in time is not a problem, for any of my bows.
September 9th, 2002, 12:15 PM
Little bubba, there is exactly twice as much to worry about with a dual. And yes, it is important on a single.
The dual you have to synchronize the cams, that is step 1. Don't have this problem with a solo.
Step two is you have to time the cam(s) on both setups. You can over or under rotate a solo or duals and have an effect on how the bow shoots and feels. This basically plays with the valley and wall characteristics. You can do the same on a dual, under rotate it, but keep it synched and over rotated and synched.
September 9th, 2002, 02:37 PM
double vs single
I'll re-post my original answer to this from another thread:
"1) Twin cams are faster than solos if of the same configuration. Therefore, manufacturers have made most conventional solos with a much harsher draw cycle which stores more energy in an effort to compete with the speed of the twins. This harsher draw cycle is much harder on the archers' shoulder and back muscles, especially when they "overbow" themselves with the "false sense of ease" of the 80% let-off at the end of the draw cycle. They also cannot be tuned to as fine a degree as twins simply because they have no opposing cam to "balance-out the system". Ever get those occasional "flyers" with a conventional solo? Most everyone that shoots a solo has had them at one time or another. You simply cannot tune them out with a solo, they come from creeping slightly forward (most archers will from time to time) which rotates the single cam, and throws your shot. With twins you can "supertune"(what I call the creep-tune method) both cams and eliminate those high or low shots and have the same impact points regardless of creep or overdraw. In other words IMHO you have to work much harder to shoot a solo with the same consistency, especially when being a beginning or average archer, regardless of what you "think" you feel due to the higher let-off. Try it with an open mind and see for yourselves.
2) Most conventional solos have 80% let-off to help "mask" the harsher draw cycle they exhibit as stated above. This IMO is also detrimental to an average shooters' accuracy, because the higher the let-off, the less tension that runs through the entire system, and this lesser tension allows the archer to draw the string out of it's natural path much easier, therefore causing more left/right shots. Pros are not as apt to be bothered by this or by #1, because they know what they can safely and comfortably pull, and have superb form and shooting skills. Yes, Pros are winning with solos, but they are being paid to and are going where the money is, otherwise few would be there IMO. They also do not have any of the "form flaws" that most archers do, and thus CAN win with them. I have shot solos for quite awhile myself, but can honestly say I have never shot the scores that I do with twins. Many Pros like Dave Cousins say the difference between solos and twins and accuracy is that with the solo they can keep them holding a "sloppy 10, tight 9", but with twins they can keep them in the " tight 10, or X". With something like 16 World Records under Daves' belt, and the input from other top archers backing twins, I think they know what they're talking about. That same distance can be the difference between a solid double lung and a "no-man's land" shot while hunting, or the difference between a 10 and a 12 in 3D. Another interesting fact is that most of the Pros I know that shoot the solos are running 65% modules or cams in them. Ever pull a true 65% solocam? He-he, better you than me, been there and done that, no wonder I feel old!
3) The hard-wall of the solos is now being matched by built-in "wallbangers" (stops) on alot of the twins. They are rock solid also. Moot point here.
4) Conventional Solos need to be kept in time also, contrary to the "myth" that they are virtually maintenence free. Cam rotation and nocking point height are VERY critical with them, and they can go "out" quickly with their longer string due to increased chance of slippage or stretch. This is not as much of a factor today with the better string materials/better building techiniques available, but a shorter string/cable combination is always better than a longer one regardless to take away any factor at all.(some solos admittedly now have dual-track idlers and an adjustable cam also which helps this. In other words they have two cams!) This means the average Joe will be spending more time at the shop and on the range chasing sight marks than a guy with a twin. I have not touched my Max 2000 in over 8 months since I switched over to Pro-Fusion carbon limbs for it, the cams are still perfectly on my timing marks after thousands of shots, and it hits the X every time. None of my previous solos would touch that for that period of time without some diddling.
In fact, IMO the ONLY 2 things solos now currently have over the twins is 1)- that out of the box, they will initially hold better. This is readily rectified with twins during the tuning/setup process, and becomes a moot point if done correctly with proper stabilization and timing/tuning. Most new twins hold superbly anyway. And 2)-- They are quieter for the most part. Out of the box, this is true and I have no arguement. Interestingly enough, a quick and correct application of cat whiskers and limbsavers for hunting applications (who cares how loud your target bow is if it goes into the X?) will put most every quality bow made today (twin or solo) in the same class also, and is much cheaper IMHO than a doctors' bill for strained or torn muscles due to a harsh draw!
Another person said it best---"If they keep on upgrading the solocam, they'll re-invent the twin cam". I believe he may be correct!
I don't believe this should turn into a Ford/Chevy debate over solos/twins, but I felt that I should clarify a few issues and offer my thoughts on why I feel twins will be a better choice overall for most archers. As stated, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever you'd like to shoot is fine with me, there are many guys shooting solos out there that love them. As long as we're all shooting, that is definately what matters most."
I think that sums it up from my standpoint. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
September 12th, 2002, 02:55 PM
Ole Pinwheel12 knows what he's talking about. Listen to him. I have 2 2-cam bows and 1 solo. The solo is real touchy if you creep even slightly. Don't have that problem with the 2-cams
September 12th, 2002, 05:36 PM
Pinwheel is right on in his post but also from my experiance "most" single cams eat your buss cable serving when the cam rolls over and you end up having to reserve or replace that cable. The only single I never had this problem with was the Mini Max cam on the Rival and Conquest 2. I have had the new Hoyt with dual track Idler and it even did it. I currently own 4 bows all Dual cams I have switched and couldn't be happier.
September 14th, 2002, 11:11 PM
2 cams are better than one
I am one that has never jumped on the solo cam band wagon. I just never could understand how one working cam could be better than 2. But I have never had a problem tunning my bows either. I'm also somewhat of a tinkerer, so maybe thats it???
Anyway one day I heard that a twin cam bow will shoot heavy arrows faster than a solo cam. I didn't understand this either so I went down to the pro shop for a little testing.
This was two years ago and maybe things have changed since then. Also since I'm gettint older I can't remember the exact numbers on weight and arrow speed but I do remember the differences. Here they are.
Both bows were PSE Carreras. One with HL Maxis cams the other I beleive had the lightning cam (their faster cam)
Both were shot a 70# draw weight @ 29" draw.
The solo cam shot the light arrow at 298
The twin cam at 290
The solo shot the heavy arrow @ 260
The twin shot the same arrow @ 271
Why this is I have no Idea. The only thing I can come up with is that with heavy arrows two cams share the load and therefore loose less speed?????
I'll stay with my two cam. Although I seriously considered Hoyts new bows with the duel track ideler
September 15th, 2002, 04:54 AM
Good post Black Timber, and a fair comparason except you are comparing a somewhat radical solo to a not-so-radical twin.The lightning cam is very harsh on the draw, while the Maxis HL is very smooth. If you take a radical setup (PSE doesn't offer "radical" twin cams anymore) from each the differential would be even more extreme than the results you found. Say you took an Orion cam(PSE's "nastiest solo" and a very- aggressive twin at the top of it's class, the twin would ultimately be faster in every aspect because there are two cams firing instead of one with an idler dragging along slowing things down.
Take the Bowtech BK2, and Their Extreme solo. Both bows are the fastest bows in their respective classes on the planet, and utilize the same riser and limbs, the only difference is the cam configuration, and they are both the fastest available. This makes for a good comparason.
The BK2 will launch an arrow at close to 350, while the Extreme Solo is around 330 at IBO speeds. They draw about the same, actually the new BK2 cams are alot smoother now than they were a couple of years ago. The same comparason figures will remain roughly within the same differential when going across the board with heavier/lighter arrows, the solo does pick up a few feet on the lighter side, but still remains close to 15ft slower at any given point. This is how the results fare on a true comparason between two fairly-matched systems, and is where I base my comments and judgements from. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
Last edited by Pinwheel 12; September 15th, 2002 at 05:10 PM.
September 15th, 2002, 10:28 PM
double vs single
I own a hooter shooter and quite a few other pieces of tuning equipment. I do quite a bit of testing and tuning, but I sure don't have anything to add to what pinwheel 12 said. He's right in the X ring about the creep tuning. I have never been able to make a solo cam shoot the creep shot into the same hole as the normal draw shot and the stacked shot. I can almost always accomplish this feat with a two cam bow. I still hunt with a six year old Clearwater extra lite and shoot 3 D with a Clearwater super lite. Both have two cams. I think ole Dave Powers knew how to build a bow. I do shoot a Champion Storm solo cam for turkey hunting. The reasons being light weight and I want the high letoff for these wary easter birds.
February 1st, 2013, 12:18 AM
Hi there, been searching for info on the clearwaters forever! I posted pics of my bow here:
could you take a look and see if you can identify the model? I think it may be and extra or superlite.
DIY ADDICT !
February 1st, 2013, 12:32 AM
Double Cam vs Single Cam
Wow I think this is a record for the oldest revived thread! I think these answers would change a bit with the modern bows. I though back then everyone was shooting the amazingly awful "slam and a half".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
Lethal Injection Archery
July 31st, 2013, 12:14 PM
Wow. Old thread is right! But honestly nothing much has changed other than the names of the bows. Twins are still faster than solos, and can be more readily fine tuned to each individual. Yep, we had some great discussions back in the old days, whew!
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