February 16th, 2005, 04:48 PM
minimum KE for white tail?
What do you think the minimum safe ft/lbs. of energy is for white tail deer?
For fixed and mechanical heads?
February 16th, 2005, 06:13 PM
50 ft pounds of KE is enough to take down any North American whitetail.
However............more is better.
Time is the measurement of motion.
February 17th, 2005, 04:33 PM
I don't know if I correctly asked my question?
What do you think the min. ft/lbs. of KE is (at the point of contact) not at the bow?
ie, I'm thinking about different set ups at different distances.
Is 50 still the answer?
Thanks again, chas
February 17th, 2005, 05:11 PM
Well to tell the truth when I am after white tail all I does is chase her around house. Don't need my bow, but if you are after whitetail 50lbs ke should work. Plus good sharp broadhead.
February 17th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Hey mnjeff - that's funny stuff there I don't care who you are!!!!
February 17th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Here are 3 links mentioning kinetic energy requirements for deer.
Here are the regulations pertaining to minimal draw weight for a couple of states.
Deer may be taken under the archery provisions only by means of hand-held bow with a minimum draw weight of 35 pounds
Recurve or long bows for deer, bear or turkey hunting must have at least 40 lbs. pull at 28" or at peak draw weight for compound bows.
Such would indicate the even bows lighter in draw weight than what many people shoot can be used to provide sufficient kinetic energy for deer. Of course having more than a " minimum " is always nice.
February 17th, 2005, 06:40 PM
At least 50lbs KE for deer !? Wow, I saw in an Easton manual 27lbs for deer, and 42 for Elk. I currently shoot 42lbs KE. It ALL has to do with kind of broadhead your using mounted on straight flying projectile (bow tune). How do traditionalists make clean kills if it all boils down to K.E.? It doesn't.
February 17th, 2005, 07:00 PM
I killed my first deer in 1949 and have no idea of the KE as I had no way of measuring speed or even arrow weight.
What I was using was a 45 lb Lemonwood Long Bow using a 29" cedar shaft and a Zwicky Broadhead (think it was a Black Diamond). The arrow went thru so fast that I thought I had missed but found blood all over the place when I went to retrieve the arrow.
I'm sure that this set-up was no where near 50lb of KE.
February 17th, 2005, 07:16 PM
yes 35 lb long bows will kill deer. Hope you dont think I meant you have to have 50 min.I think we have become obsessed with power. My wifes has shot deer with 42 lbs round wheels on 1986 golden eagle hunter and 1916 aluminum shaft 125 gr muzzy 4 bld. she took good broad side shots and has had a pass through every time. now our compounds have so much power at light weights it really is a mute point, but everyone loves to still bring up subject. If you shot 60+ lbs and 450+ arrow you could take steep angled shots and get great penetration. Now the part were everyone gives me s@#$ I belive you could whack a deer length ways with 60 lbs ke or more and good bh like TI-100. Doe girl What poundage you and arrow weight you shoot? I think my wifes old setup was about 28 ft lbs.
February 17th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Currently shoot a 330 grain arrow @240fps=42lbs KE out of 53lb Hoyt.
Originally Posted by mnj
February 17th, 2005, 10:01 PM
Hope this helps, this is off Goldtips arrow sight.
Recommended Kinetic Energy Chart
10 ft. lbs.
20 ft. lbs. Small Game - Birds, Rabbit, etc.
30 ft. lbs.
40 ft. lbs. Medium Game - Deer, Antelope, Bear
50 ft. lbs. Large Game - Elk, Moose, Caribou
60 ft. lbs.
70 ft. lbs.
80 ft. lbs.
You can't get them if you don't hunt them!
February 17th, 2005, 10:09 PM
South Africa developed a set of standards for Bowhuntign game based on KE not pull of the bow like in the USA.
Using data from Dave Holt and a Bowhunter Magazine Penetration test, we came up with a minimum of 11# of KE for impala a related sized game like deer etc.
The Wildlife Dept Doubled the Minm. I recommend as a huge margin for safety and established 25# as a KE recommend minim for blesbuck Impala and small buck of that class.
Fred Bear stated over and over that 45# Bow( recurves at the time before compounds) would kill any North Americana game animal cleanly and they did.
I did some test with a 45# Bear Grizzly in the mid 1980s and a bear 2016 Easton arrow 28" and a 125 Grain Bear Razorhead.
At 28" the rig generated 28.5# of KE actually more than in early year of bow that were not as fast.
So 29# of KE has killed Grizzly, Brown bear, Moose, Elk Black Bear etc across North America .
People who claim that 50# of KE is required to kill deer are doing youth and lady hunters a gross disservice.
I have guided many youths & women on Safari in Africa and Australia that have killed large game cleanly with one arrow with about 25# of KE
A 30#/ 35# compound bow & a sharp single blade broadhead on a carbon or aluminum arrow over 300 grains will shoot thru deer, bear, hogs, moose elk etc and its done all the time across the world. Bruce Barrie President of Rocky Mountain Broadheads shot thru a Big black bear when he was 12 using a 29# Herters stick bow and killed him clean!
DR DEAN, my ex killed a huge 625# Kudu Bull with a 18181 XX75 arrows and a 33# Jennings Micro Carbon Extreme and a MODOC single blade broadhead
She shot was 26 feet up in a Tree blind and the bull was struck behind the last rib, thru the stomach & Intestines, thru the diaphragm, lungs and stuck into the heart.
the Huge bull ran only 71 yards and died within sight of the blind. The bull sprayed the area with blood as seen in the foreground of the photos
A second photo will show the arrow Fromm the light bow went in up to the cresting on her arrow. One of the quickest Kudu kills I have ever seen. I have seen dozens and shot many Kudu with a rifle and none has dropped so quick.
The broadhead does the killing!
Ultra Sharp broadheads kill quicker and leave better blood trails
If the ladies can pull & generate 50, # 60# or 75 # of KE great but it better to hit with 25# of KE than to miss with 80# of KE.
February 17th, 2005, 10:11 PM
Arrow penetration from a 33# Jennings bow
DR DEANS KUDU KILLING ARROW Easton XX75 1818 450 grains & 33# Jennings Mirco Carbon Extrema Bow
Neck Injury stopped her from Pulling any more weight.
Note profusion of blood the Bull blew out in the background of the bull!
February 18th, 2005, 12:02 PM
KE at point of impact
whatever the minimum KE is for any animal you must remember that is based at the point of inpact. with the bows of today it really is not hard to get good KE but if you are using a bow with 45 lbs of KE that is coming out of the bow that does not mean you have that same KE out to 30 yrds or so, at shoots I see kids who can shoot good out to 30 yrds and their parent thinks they can shoot a deer at that distance but their bows might be putting out 35 lbs of KE but it will not have that same energy at that distance. I shoot out to 40 yrds. and anytime I set up a bow I will shoot through my chrono at 40 yrds to see what my speed is and with the weight of the arrow I can figure what my KE is at that distance. All bows are different I have seen bows vary from 8-19 fps loss of speed at 20 yrds.
February 18th, 2005, 12:07 PM
Exactly ! Well said !
Originally Posted by doegirl
February 18th, 2005, 12:18 PM
I know kids who have killed deer with 25-30 #'s draw weight out to 20 yards.
Are shooting more poundage than that
60#/29" Bowtech Insanity
395 gold tip @ 300fps
TT smack down and Black Gold ascent
February 18th, 2005, 12:55 PM
40 yards is too far for most men to shoot
Kind sir Good point and I think we all know that
40 yards is longer than most ethical bowhunter shoot deer
Most women and youths keep shot under 20 yards
The average USA deer kill was been 18 yards and if you rule out western open plain mule deer hunts, Most WT Deer are shot around 14 to 17 yards from personal observations.
Given the abundance of WT deer today, hunters no longer have to take long hope or" Hail Mary" shots at deer.
February 18th, 2005, 07:09 PM
thank you all, for your help. So what I have heard here is that with 70+ ft/lbs.
I should be able to shoot a good mech. or fixed broadhead(in tune) out to the distance I feel comfortable?
My KE will not be a factor because distance will be the limiting parameter.
February 18th, 2005, 08:42 PM
My statement is in regards to things not always being perfect in the field. Shoulder bones, breast plates, and other numerous tough bones to punch through will cause some problems. 50 ft lbs is easy enough to acheive.........and plus you owe it to the game for a quick demise.
Time is the measurement of motion.
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