October 31st, 2011, 11:54 PM
HELP!!! Target archers, why do i keep missing high/low?
Hey guys, need help. As i hold/pull through the shot, my bow seems to bob slowly up and down around the X. I am shooting vegas scores averaging around 299.5, half 300, half 299. My x count is not great, i have noticed that looking back at all the scores i have shot this year i have not missed but 2-3 x's to the left or right. I am either high or low. all i want is a 30X, jsut once, even in practice. I dont think this is a form of TP, i am shooting a big ring and the x sits in the middle, just bobs higher and lower. not freezing. not consistently high/low. my targets all essentially have a big gash through the 10 from top to bottom.
I have added weight to the bars, moved weight forward/backward, changed my tiller, changed my DL by twisting my string a bunch, i feel like i have tried everything. It seems like somedays are bad, some are great. I am debating getting the cams that are 1/2 inch shorter just for a change.
What could it be? Shooting VE+ with spirals at 60 pounds.
cannot figure it out and it is driving my CRAZY
October 31st, 2011, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by squeekieslayer
Have you CREEP tuned your bow?
Work the control cable,
and try a 1/2 twist LESS than normal.
Shoot at the top edge of the piece of duct tape,
set at 20 yards.
Fire three shots along the top edge,
with your NORMAL shot.
Fire three shots along the top edge,
with you pulling HARD into the wall.
If the 3 NORMAL shots...are say 1/2-inch above the top edge of the duct tape...
if the 3 HARD into the WALL shots are even higher or say lower than the top edge of the duct tape...
(vertical variance in the point of impact)
gotta change the length of the control cable.
Experiment with a 1/2 twist EXTRA.
Experiment with a 1/2 twist less than usual.
Find what direction you need to go with the control cable...
The adjustment to get ALL SIX shots hitting the top edge of the duct tape,
will be at most a full twist.
November 1st, 2011, 12:05 AM
i will give that a try, my concern is that the hold feels like it is bobbing, not that shot is inconsistent. I mean, when it goes off i know exactly where it is going to hit. It hits where it is pointed, it just wont hold still. haha.
I will definately try that though. thanks a lot
November 1st, 2011, 12:10 AM
is your bow hand really relaxed? Let someone else watch you or make a video.
November 1st, 2011, 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by squeekieslayer
IF the issue is that the sight pin will just PLAIN not settle down...
I would experiment with tiny DL adjustments.
Try ADDING a half twist to the bottom of the buss cable (yoke cable)
to shrink the ATA slightly.
This will make a very MINOR increase in the bow DL setting,
and this should settle down your scope dot/pin.
Since your scores are good,
and you are just trying to increase the x-count....
very very minor adjustments to the draw length are a good place to start.
If you adjust the twists (untwist) the bowstring,
you get a slightly larger increase in bow DL setting....
let's call this a "medium" size DL adjustment by untwisting say a half twist on the bowstring.
Let's call the buss cable EXTRA half twist, a "small" size adjustment for DL.
These adjustments are not really measurable with a tape measure, on a draw board,
at your shooting level,
we are only trying to improve the FEEL of the shot.
November 1st, 2011, 01:52 AM
It's mental. You gotta let it happen. There is a mental block that will prohibit your meeting your goal. It's called panic. Take the pressure off yourself by spending time shooting at a short distance. You won't do it at 20 if you can't do it at 10. Get used to seeing a 30x at 10, then walk yourself back. A yard or two at a time. You gotta believe you can do it mentally, before you do it physically. By the time you get to 20, you will have done it many times leading up to it, so the actual score will be nothing new. By the time you get there, it will be a "just shoot" type situation.
That being said, it will also help your pin movement. By starting close, you won't notice pin movement as much. It's easier to hold steady on the X. You will get accustomed to seeing the pin in the X. But magically, when it floats, it still hits the X. You will develop a trust in yourself and your equipment, and quit worrying about why you are 1/4 off at 20 yards.
November 1st, 2011, 12:05 PM
Have you changed draw weight and/or holding weight and/or the physical weight of the bow?
- Typically, if I have too little holding weight I can't hold as steady as I expect. That's not exactly up-down as you are describing but rather general movement. Holding weight also goes hand-in-hand with the physical weight of the bow. A heavier bow requires I use a bit more holding weight up to a certain point. Also more holding weight can require more weight on the bow and/or stabilizer. I generally "hold" better and execute a better shot with 17 - 19 lbs. of holding weight than I do holding 12 lbs.
- Too much or too little end weight on the stabber. I see you've already tried this.
- Draw length. I see you're trying a shorter draw.
"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table."
Supra ME, BowMadness 34, DNA SP
Stan ShootOff and JustX releases for hunting, foam and paper!
November 1st, 2011, 02:25 PM
i wish i had ur problem........
November 1st, 2011, 02:30 PM
I go through it every few year too Joe. Personally, I've found it to be borderline anticipation. I can shoot well while it's going on but don't like it.
I force myself into aiming drills to "cure" it....for a while.
The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
November 1st, 2011, 02:39 PM
I'm far from expert, but I'm currently experiencing same issue with VE w/spirals, 1/2" shorter DL than I normally shoot. Reviewing Griv's Professional Form & Shot Execution DVD around minute 21:15+, it would appear the solution may be using a slightly longer DL.
November 1st, 2011, 06:38 PM
November 1st, 2011, 07:12 PM
Ditto!!!!! If I am ever averaging 299.5, all will be right in the world. I am so far from the 290's, it is not even funny!
Originally Posted by avid3d
November 1st, 2011, 07:44 PM
creep tune first and see if that helps
next put a new blade on your rest. a friend of mine who is a national champ and hold national records had the same issue, turned out to be a bad blade.
what arrows and how are they setup?
'11 VE+ '14 PCE XL
I shoot for: GT, Axcel/Truball, Viscosity strings, FV
"put your dot in the middle and shoot your shot, they'll tell you if you won later"
November 1st, 2011, 07:47 PM
How about a pic of your form?
It sounds like a weak/high front shoulder to me.
November 17th, 2011, 11:58 PM
return to the topic, just an update...... I ended up twisting the string a couple more times, NOT the right direction at all. I went against all my better judgement and untwisted the string, adding about 1/8 to the DL, slowed way down. Took half a turn out of the bottom limb and it got even better. In fact, i keep lifting up out of the x instead. Going to try this for a while. I talked to a couple guys that had a few more tips as far as timing, right in line with what N and B said above. Going to put a twist on the buss to try and speed the top cam and add a tiny bit more to the DL.
will let yall know how it goes
February 7th, 2012, 10:04 AM
What worked for me was a combination of neutral front to back bow balance, reduced overall bow weight (less stabilizer weights) and a snug draw length to release fit. This with a 60lb Vantage Elite with Spiral cams, 65% let off.
February 7th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Creep tune and Not centering peep are the first things that come to mind. Heeling the riser would be next.......
Charter Member LOFT Archery Team
Vantage Elite +
Sureloc, Britesite Protuner, X Terminator Stabilizers
60X Strings, Truball Sweet Spot, Thurman Scopes, VAP Bullets