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View Poll Results: Change Senior Age limit to 50?

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  • Yes

    115 77.70%
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    33 22.30%
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Thread: Change NFAA Seniors to 50?

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNarcher View Post
    DB, this issue really has nothing to do with one organization over another. It is soley for physical equality in competition. A by product would be that all the organizations would align. Pure and simple.
    Exactly, and a much better approach to the goal.
    There's not much of a lesson to be learned the second time a calf kicks you in the balz.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by field14 View Post
    See red above: It got as bad as "personal threats of bodily harm", it got as bad as e-mails from an NFAA person in a higher position than general member, that "You (meaning me) have a personal agenda that is contrary to the best interests of the organization and to archery in general". Every time something like this comes up and either myself, Daniel Boone or a couple of others enter in, it is the fieldman, or Daniel Boone, or the few others that are told " contact your State NFAA Director and submit an agenda item"...I'm tired of it...it takes 50 states...why on earth does it come down to me and Daniel Boone (two states) having the entire shift?
    Doesn't anybody else live on this planet or something? It gets really old after awhile....so that is why eventually you just vent, maybe give a bash or three to try to kick start somebody to reality (hasn't worked yet, tho) and torque them off enough for THEM to try it instead of shoving it off on me.
    Sometimes I'm like the Dennis Rodman of archery...but dang it, sometimes that is what it takes to at least try to get something going; stir the pot and hope.... but frustration so far has been the result; name calling, insults, threats (thankfully very few of those) and nasty e-mails.
    You asked why? I told you...and will likely get bashed for telling the truth...but hey, I carry duck oil in one back pocket and Prep "H" in the other.
    field14 (Tom D.)

    yanno, if thats how they wanna do ya.....out em.
    i'm sure that this/these individual/s would just LOVE to face their constituents.

    if you had bonafide proof such as an email or unbiased witnesses to the verbal exchange that just backs up your side.


    in the grand scheme of things, i could care less about how this plays out. 50 or 55......doesnt bother me. the rules are the rules.
    When the war is over soldiers come home, SAILORS dont. WE will always stand a vigilant watch to protect YOUR way of life.
    It's not that I'm cranky, I just dont care what you think.
    Google isnt all that difficult to use, i'm not gonna spoon feed you info that you're too lazy to look up.

  3. #128
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    Just to let you know. I have presented this to the WSAA membership just like this poll. Granted the participation is small right now but it is 100% in favor. I told the membership that I was going to make this proposal to the NFAA no matter what because I believe that it should happen BUT that I would cast a vote as a result of the membership poll.

    I also opened up a discussion thread for discussion on the issue. This is a quote from one of the responses. "I think the change should make the age limits conicide with all the other archery groups, 50-59 senior, 60-69 Master etc...." What are some thoughts about adding this to the original?
    Matt Anderson (Average Joe)
    U.S Navy Retired Chief Petty Officer VP Navy
    Bow\Gold Tip/Feather Vision\ Limb Savers/QAD\Spot-Hogg/B-Stinger\
    "When all is said and done, it's not the shots that won the championship that you remember, but the friendships you made along the way"

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by USNarcher View Post
    Just to let you know. I have presented this to the WSAA membership just like this poll. Granted the participation is small right now but it is 100% in favor. I told the membership that I was going to make this proposal to the NFAA no matter what because I believe that it should happen BUT that I would cast a vote as a result of the membership poll.

    I also opened up a discussion thread for discussion on the issue. This is a quote from one of the responses. "I think the change should make the age limits conicide with all the other archery groups, 50-59 senior, 60-69 Master etc...." What are some thoughts about adding this to the original?
    Once again, the hardest part is getting the membership to be involved and letting them know that each and every one of them is responsible for the 'inaction' they perceive from the NFAA Directors! Sure, 'some' of the Directors just don't get out and pound the bricks....but...I think that most all of them would be more active if the MEMBERS would just start giving a rat and show some support...instead of just lying back in their caves and letting the cookie crumble.
    It cannot be up to USNarcher, DB, and the fieldman to honcho this big change.

    Don't know the answer as to how to get membership involvement in the majority of the State Associations, but perhaps, just maybe, if ALL the Directors would take the initiative and send out the poll via e-mail to ALL the NFAA Members in THEIR State Association then just maybe the responses returned would be more in line with the REAL feelings of the general membership. Probably won't get an overall majority of members responding, but likely more than a handful would respond!
    Just some initiative...and promotion...and then the MEMBERSHIP doing their job and responding!

    field14 (Tom D.)
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo View Post
    Honestly...the immediately effective solution is to gut the Constitution and By-laws and make it into a Dictatorship...wait, that's to get issues decided and determined in an efficient manner. ...



    Some within the NFAA feel that perhaps the ASA and IBO should have considered what the NFAA was doing when those Orgs set their rules. The NFAA existed long before the ASA and IBO...so did its rules. When the ASA and IBO set their divisional ages, they are the ones that created the problem for their shooters with the NFAA.
    Can I throw my name in the hat?


    If I'm not mistaken, Senior and master senior were designated until after other organizations did. I'm not 100% sure on this but don't remember any senior divisions through the '70s and '80s. Need a fact checker, but if that's the case, then the NFAA created it's own mess by going outside the others.

    Getting it changed (best of luck and thanks to USN) is the only obstacle, and even though there are no valid arguments as to why it shouldn't be changed, I'll be surprised if it does.
    The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmuley View Post
    Can I throw my name in the hat?


    If I'm not mistaken, Senior and master senior were designated until after other organizations did. I'm not 100% sure on this but don't remember any senior divisions through the '70s and '80s. Need a fact checker, but if that's the case, then the NFAA created it's own mess by going outside the others.

    Getting it changed (best of luck and thanks to USN) is the only obstacle, and even though there are no valid arguments as to why it shouldn't be changed, I'll be surprised if it does.
    IF it is NOT changed, it is but one more nail in the coffin of the NFAA! There are already more and more shoots that use age 50-59 for Seniors and 60+ for Master Seniors. This, as it continues to emerge will leave but a very, very FEW NFAA tournaments which will isolate its stand alone system even more.

    Didn't Lancaster's go with 50-59 and 60+ either this past year or sometime even before that? I know of a few others that are giving this age thing strong consideration and are likely to change it on their own with or without the NFAA "rule" on age limits.

    field14 (Tom D.)
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  7. #132
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    It should be changed 50-59 Senior, 60-69 Master etc...
    I am not Trad, I just like shooting recurves and longbows.

  8. #133
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    I just don't like the idea that I'll be a "senior" that much sooner. LOL.

  9. #134
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    Maybe there should be a another class of 40 -50 too,it does not affect me at age 58 but that age of 40-50 does struggle too, maybe it would bring in more shooters too. why not have adult class to the age of 40,40-50,50-60,60-70 and the golden oldie class.i think this would keep people shooting more and having a great time with people of their age group better." we all know getting old ain`t for sissy`s ! " Pete53

  10. #135
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    I don't think that we need anymore divisions but the more I get into this the more people are coming out and voicing their oppinions which is great. You can't complain unless you are active and have a solution. Here in Washington the poll I started is overwhelmingly infavor of a rule change. Infact some of the resistance to this has changed as well when I talk to people and they actually find out that I am listening to them and want to be their voice.

    All that being said as I get ready to write this thing up there are several facets to this. Like Ren (rsarns) said if we are going to do this then lets align all the age groups. Then as a show of equality lets make sure that each age group still has all of it's classes. Why is it that a guy shooting traditional his whole life all the sudden is penalized when he moves up to MS and the trad class is dropped. They either have to shoot with senior trad or MS barebow.
    Matt Anderson (Average Joe)
    U.S Navy Retired Chief Petty Officer VP Navy
    Bow\Gold Tip/Feather Vision\ Limb Savers/QAD\Spot-Hogg/B-Stinger\
    "When all is said and done, it's not the shots that won the championship that you remember, but the friendships you made along the way"

  11. #136
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    Matt,
    Exactly, at the Indoor Nationals I think in the Senior division we had 4 for sure that were MS, but have to shoot as a senior even though they are older. Look at Gerald and the many others who have been forced to compete against 55 year olds and are in their 70's. I think we take baby steps and get the age groups lined up with all the other org's, then attack the MS Trad class. It would be nice to get both pushed through.
    I am not Trad, I just like shooting recurves and longbows.

  12. #137
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    Though no longer with the NFAA and having served as on the Board of the IAA I had planned on returning this year. After seeing how the events were and were given I didn't join.

    Tom, field14, knows I've been there. Things need to change within the NFAA and that's for sure and the only way is to invade the Old Guard or take it over and that's on the state and national level. Has anyone noticed that a Zone Board member can't poll his or her own zone? And then, here in Illinois, it seems darn feel even care what happens here or even reads the Bulletin for that matter. For Illinois the "writing on the wall" is all but there to read. It exists, but not what I call in good surviving mode.

    Well past 50 I'd still vote for 50 being the start for Seniors.



    Still, change the age of for Seniors and something must be done for the older yet. And a problem is the number of classes and aged classes. I believe there is 74 as it is. IBO and the ASA have about a 1/3, 26 or 27 classes.
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  13. #138
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    Hey guys Im 58 and Im all for the change to 50.Yes Tom,Lancasters is 50 and I like it because it brings waaaay more shooters in the class.On a good day some shoots will get 20,25 shooters in senior class.But at Lancasters I get to compete against about 70.It helps me bring out the determination to compete at a higher level,knowing Im going up against the younger guys.The only other two that I can think of that brings all my age shooters out is Vegas and Indoor Nats.
    Thats at the Senior Pro level for Nationals.
    Don W.
    Repeat your process,Concentrate then follow through!

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglide1 View Post
    Hey guys Im 58 and Im all for the change to 50.Yes Tom,Lancasters is 50 and I like it because it brings waaaay more shooters in the class.On a good day some shoots will get 20,25 shooters in senior class.But at Lancasters I get to compete against about 70.It helps me bring out the determination to compete at a higher level,knowing Im going up against the younger guys.The only other two that I can think of that brings all my age shooters out is Vegas and Indoor Nats.
    Thats at the Senior Pro level for Nationals.
    Don W.
    Recently in ASA/IBO your seeing guys like Tom Crowe on the upper age of that class win along with Randle Jones who in his mid 60's.
    I know for a fact these guys can win against the 50 yr olds.
    DB
    Archery is an addiction is for me. Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker Rest, Vapor Trail strings, OK-Archery DST 40, Eilte Z28 Bow, Carter/Scott releases, CBE sights, Goldtip arrows, B Stingers Stabilizers, Lancasters Archery, Slick Tricks, Vanetec Vanes, Elite Pulse

  15. #140
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    i would vote for the 50-60 age being seniors,60-70 age being masters,70 and above super master`s.we do need to do something with the 40-50 age class lets not forget them,maybe called ??. one food for thought does anyone remember when Dave Barnsdale at over 50 years of age won two big shoots using his own Barnsdale bow just a couple of years ago in the male freestyle pro class ? one was Vegas other was Iowa pro am same year ? so you can`t always count the golden year boys out ! beside`s we have grown up and no longer wear dirty blue jeans at a world class shoot right chuck ?Pete53

  16. #141
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    Just to let everyone know I am submitting this as an agenda item. From the polls in my state this one and almost everyone that I have talked to there is an overwhelming demand for the change.
    Matt Anderson (Average Joe)
    U.S Navy Retired Chief Petty Officer VP Navy
    Bow\Gold Tip/Feather Vision\ Limb Savers/QAD\Spot-Hogg/B-Stinger\
    "When all is said and done, it's not the shots that won the championship that you remember, but the friendships you made along the way"

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNarcher View Post
    Just to let everyone know I am submitting this as an agenda item. From the polls in my state this one and almost everyone that I have talked to there is an overwhelming demand for the change.
    Same here(as far as the polling goes). Glad you're submitting it. Should be an interesting discussion.
    There's not much of a lesson to be learned the second time a calf kicks you in the balz.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNarcher View Post
    Just to let everyone know I am submitting this as an agenda item. From the polls in my state this one and almost everyone that I have talked to there is an overwhelming demand for the change.
    I figured it will change. Im turning 55, maybe that what need to happen for change! LOL Glad to see it regardless. Been fighting it for five yrs now.

    Thanks DB
    Archery is an addiction is for me. Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker Rest, Vapor Trail strings, OK-Archery DST 40, Eilte Z28 Bow, Carter/Scott releases, CBE sights, Goldtip arrows, B Stingers Stabilizers, Lancasters Archery, Slick Tricks, Vanetec Vanes, Elite Pulse

  19. #144
    [QUOTE=Rolo;1065296904]Same here(as far as the polling goes). Glad you're submitting it. Should be an interesting discussion.

    it will be an interesting agenda:
    I keep hearing that the NFAA is not with the rest of the world. Does any one here think that all of the archery orgs is the rest of the world. The reason that 55 was picked was because that is what "The Rest Of The World "considered what a senior is. I was there when it was voted on. I don't know of any cities or towns that will give you a senior discount at 50. there is a bunch that consider 62 the senior cut off. That was the rationale at the time
    Every one was flighted like always.Then we gave a complimentary 3 places medals for the seniors. Then came the senior division. Then the cry was for the master seniors. How about a cry for the super duper seniors. I'm 79 ,& I had to shoot against those 65 year old wet behind the ears "KIDS" at the Nationals. USN, you are trying to take care of the youngsters. i don't believe that a change to 50 will make all the other organizations flock over to the NFAA. it was the same rationale that changed the Heavy tackle division to Bow hunter div. It was said that all of bow hunters in the country would flock to the NfAA because they would Identify. That didn't happen.
    I wish you luck with the agenda. It will all come down to how well you can politic
    Mike LePera
    Britesite.US

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by brtesite View Post
    I keep hearing that the NFAA is not with the rest of the world. Does any one here think that all of the archery orgs is the rest of the world. The reason that 55 was picked was because that is what "The Rest Of The World "considered what a senior is. I was there when it was voted on. I don't know of any cities or towns that will give you a senior discount at 50. there is a bunch that consider 62 the senior cut off. That was the rationale at the time
    Every one was flighted like always.Then we gave a complimentary 3 places medals for the seniors. Then came the senior division. Then the cry was for the master seniors. How about a cry for the super duper seniors. I'm 79 ,& I had to shoot against those 65 year old wet behind the ears "KIDS" at the Nationals. USN, you are trying to take care of the youngsters. i don't believe that a change to 50 will make all the other organizations flock over to the NFAA. it was the same rationale that changed the Heavy tackle division to Bow hunter div. It was said that all of bow hunters in the country would flock to the NfAA because they would Identify. That didn't happen.
    I wish you luck with the agenda. It will all come down to how well you can politic
    Mike...without getting into a long discussion about the merits of this agenda item, or a discussion about previous rationals...Isn't USN doing exactly what he is supposed to by bringing this agrnda item? It looks like the members of his State want this change, and are supporting it. Isn't it a Director's responsibility to bring the agenda item on behalf of their State if this is what that State wants? It will be then up to the remaining Directors to vote based on the desire of their State (at least that's how it should be) and not their personal opinions.
    There's not much of a lesson to be learned the second time a calf kicks you in the balz.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo View Post
    Mike...without getting into a long discussion about the merits of this agenda item, or a discussion about previous rationals...Isn't USN doing exactly what he is supposed to by bringing this agrnda item? It looks like the members of his State want this change, and are supporting it. Isn't it a Director's responsibility to bring the agenda item on behalf of their State if this is what that State wants? It will be then up to the remaining Directors to vote based on the desire of their State (at least that's how it should be) and not their personal opinions.
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  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo View Post
    Mike...without getting into a long discussion about the merits of this agenda item, or a discussion about previous rationals...Isn't USN doing exactly what he is supposed to by bringing this agrnda item? It looks like the members of his State want this change, and are supporting it. Isn't it a Director's responsibility to bring the agenda item on behalf of their State if this is what that State wants? It will be then up to the remaining Directors to vote based on the desire of their State (at least that's how it should be) and not their personal opinions.
    rolo, Yes he is doing what is required. I just expressed my opinion as every one else here. Since I was involved with the situation, I thought I would give some of the history of it. It wasn't to deter USN from doing it.
    Mike LePera
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  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by brtesite View Post
    rolo, Yes he is doing what is required. I just expressed my opinion as every one else here. Since I was involved with the situation, I thought I would give some of the history of it. It wasn't to deter USN from doing it.
    Didn't think you were doing otherwise Mike. That's why I left out any comments on a discussion of the merits (that's been hased and re-hashed on this post. A "historical perspective" is also good, and relevant to this discussion. I for one have always appreciated your opinions on these discussions, whether I agree with them or not. You have a lot more 'seasoning' when it comes to the NFAA than I do, which is also much respected by me. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong though. (It's a joke people)

    However, I have also witnessed votes being cast based on the personal desire of the individual Director (actually stated as such) and have truly wondered (with good reason in 1 case) whether that was the desire of the State, or whether there had been any legitimate discussion of the Director with his State as to what was both in the best interest of the State and the NFAA.
    There's not much of a lesson to be learned the second time a calf kicks you in the balz.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo View Post
    Didn't think you were doing otherwise Mike. That's why I left out any comments on a discussion of the merits (that's been hased and re-hashed on this post. A "historical perspective" is also good, and relevant to this discussion. I for one have always appreciated your opinions on these discussions, whether I agree with them or not. You have a lot more 'seasoning' when it comes to the NFAA than I do, which is also much respected by me. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong though. (It's a joke people)

    However, I have also witnessed votes being cast based on the personal desire of the individual Director (actually stated as such) and have truly wondered (with good reason in 1 case) whether that was the desire of the State, or whether there had been any legitimate discussion of the Director with his State as to what was both in the best interest of the State and the NFAA.
    unfortunately, you are correct about some of the voting that does go on. Some are self serving
    Mike LePera
    Britesite.US

  25. #150
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    Everyone has an opinion on this and those that "paid their dues" and waited until they were 55 argue the most. This will be my initiation at the convention. If you look at sports and sports only. Every sport that has a senior division has it at an age before NFAA. The current adult division spans 37 years, without a doubt the largest division. Sure us "old" guys have our day and can hang with the younger guys but for the most part we don't stand a chance. And this does not prevent anyone aged 50-55 from still competing with the adult class if they choose.

    I think that this will help the pro side more than anything. Infact I think that it will boost the pro senior numbers in the NFAA as well as promote those pro's that compete in IBO and ASA that are in the age group 50-55 to compete in more NFAA national events. This proposal will also adjust the master senior age to be 60+. I hope that the state delegates do poll their membership, un biased, and vote the wishes of the members. That is how it is supposed to be. When I presented this to Washington folks I said that I am presenting this agenda but will vote as the membership wishes.
    Matt Anderson (Average Joe)
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    Bow\Gold Tip/Feather Vision\ Limb Savers/QAD\Spot-Hogg/B-Stinger\
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