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Thread: Your arrow tuning with fat carbons........

  1. #1

    Your arrow tuning with fat carbons........

    I would like to hear about what you expect to put into your fat carbons to make them perform the best.



    I have been messing with some brand X fat shafts and the more I work with them, the less I'm impressed. I found them very sensitive to nock tuning- meaning some would be way off in POI after the build (2" @ 20 yards)....the worst I've ever seen. But, nock tuning would bring them together. After nock tuning, I tear the same hole consecutively shot-after-shot through paper with a given shaft. Change to the next shaft and it will have it's own unique but consistent/repeatable tear. Like I said, POI's are good after nock adjustment but paper tuning is not- I can't get satisfied with my tuning because I can't establish a trend across the group of shafts and they are unique enough that tuning (bow adjustments) to one would be counterproductive with others.

    I've only seen this once before and it was in a set of VAP's that found their way back to the dealer who also couldn't get them to shoot- even in a hooter shooter. Have you paper tuned with multiple shafts out of your dozens?


  2. #2
    I've added a picture to clarify what I'm talking about. These are all shafts that have been nock tuned for POI- through several rounds of shooting.

    Each shaft's shots are circled and numbered (the shafts are numbered). You can see that I've got one bullet, 2 high right, 1 high, and 1 high left. These are also powder tested to verify no fletch contact anywhere.




    But, they generally group well- this is a 60 yard group while setting marks for a new tape.


  3. #3
    If they all group like that at 60 yards I wouldn't worry what the paper looks like. Lol.

    I never shot them through paper just shoot groups, the ones that won't group will get nock turned if that doesn't work they are junk.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 3D Pinwheeler View Post
    If they all group like that at 60 yards I wouldn't worry what the paper looks like. Lol.

    I never shot them through paper just shoot groups, the ones that won't group will get nock turned if that doesn't work they are junk.
    That's kind of what I'm expecting to hear- most shooters either aren't paper tuning them, or only using one shaft and it doesn't really "satisfy" me. I like to use the paper to proof my spine/configuration, etc. Honestly, it is probably as much for me gaining confidence in my equipment as anything but I do like to see good "paper work" as verification that my equipment is running well. But evidently the fletching is doing its job to "correct" well as I'm not seeing any bad flight down range. They do seem to group good on initial longer range shooting but 95% of my time has been shooting them indoor so far and that is about to change so we'll see.

    ...or maybe not. I'm not sure I can tolerate them tearing through paper like this. I would specifically love to hear from guys shooting X-Jammers, Triple X, and Full Bores....all of them are shafts I'd consider right now.

  5. #5
    anyone else care to tell what they expect to do to get their fat carbons performing well?

  6. #6
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    I only use paper as a starting point. If you got it tuned close with one shaft, and the others don't make ridiculous tares, I would forget about it and move on. Have somebody watch your arrow flight to make sure they aren't doing anything crazy, then do a walkback tune. Tweak your centershot until they hit the same left/right at 20 and 50 or 60, and let them eat!

    Just got your pics to load.. with those small tares and a group like that at 60, I wouldn't worry a bit. As long as the center of that group is the same as a group shot from 20 left/right, I would say you are good to go!

  7. #7
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    Group tune if the arrows hit and group well then who cares what the paper looks like. Iv shot arrows with a 3 inch tear before but they grouped great so i left it alone. If it aint broken dont fix it.

  8. #8
    Super clean flight is something that I've always worked for so it bugs me a little to see this. I also use the paper for more than clean flight- and that is as most people would use bareshaft tuning to interpret spine, etc. Inconsistencies like this basically take that tool away from me. I have more experience with ACC's and CX shafts than any other and I've never had this issue until those VAP's I tried one time so seeing this makes me a little suspect at minimum.

    I did a little work on my bow today to try to clean it up. I spread my nocking points just a hair to eliminate the possibility of pinch, I also lowered the nocking points a little so that I could run the rest a little lower than I had it because after looking at my own pictures I decided that the group of shafts represented did have more tail high than I wanted and I didn't want to raise the rest anymore. I also decided to go ahead and stiffen them up by cutting 3/4" off- they had bare shaft tested as a little weak.

    It did clean the flight up through paper quite a bit- and I couldn't see anything down range to start with. They aren't perfect but better IMO. Re-setting my gaps this afternoon they continued to group really well.

  9. #9
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    Normal tuning then hooter shooter for arrows!

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  10. #10
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    Forget paper tuning if feild points and broad heads hit the same spot its usually pretty good then I tune my target arrows from there as long as they group good I am happy
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by miketheshooter View Post
    Forget paper tuning if feild points and broad heads hit the same spot its usually pretty good then I tune my target arrows from there as long as they group good I am happy
    I think he's talking about fat shafts for 3d here, no broadhead tuning..
    I bareshaft tuned my FullBores last yr. out to 35-yds. and had them shooting really good. All of them. They did not paper tune.
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  12. #12
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    I cannot papertune a fat, stiff shaft off my Vendetta-XL. Tried it last year and again this year, but i get a straight high tear about 1.5". I can put a 400 spine Fatboy or Beman Hunter and get perfect bulletholes.
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  13. #13
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    I never did get xxx's to tune for past 40yds. But trying to shoot an arrow that stiff from a setup that isnt spot on makes for a tough time. I did get them pounding each other at 30-40yds. So much that i broke 3 of them 6inches down the shaft.(have seen the xxx's do that alot) I have an entirely new setup now and have some fullbores coming with 100gr. tips with 1.8 duravanes or some 2.1 fuzions at 64lbs hoyt AE with .010 blade. Will post some results if i get some time with it later this week.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAYLOR CO. View Post
    I think he's talking about fat shafts for 3d here, no broadhead tuning..
    I bareshaft tuned my FullBores last yr. out to 35-yds. and had them shooting really good. All of them. They did not paper tune.
    Yeah then I tweak the rest a little bit for my bigger 3d arrows basically drop the rest a touch or raise Nick height
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  15. #15
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    I tune my son's fatboys (12) all in one hole at 20 yds. that's all the space I have out of the wind with my home made super shooter.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Fieseler View Post
    I tune my son's fatboys (12) all in one hole at 20 yds. that's all the space I have out of the wind with my home made super shooter.
    How are you aiming the bow back to the same spot everytime?

    I tried using the local shop's Hooter Shooter today. It isn't bolted down and each shot moves it. So I was trying to peek through the peep at the pin and line it up on the same spot every time. I thought ir might work okay at first but found out very quickly that I could outshoot the machine in the manner I was using it so I did some nock tuning on some arrows the old-fashioned way. I want to use a machine but there's got to be a better way.

    Next question, how are you using the machine to pull into the wall the same every time? It seems that a fine adjustment is needed and then I'm not sure a visual check of the draw stops is consistent enough.

  17. #17
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    Fatboys are very easy to tune and have always shot great. The 27series shafts are a whole different animal. A fatboy will fit inside a 27 shaft.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by miketheshooter View Post
    Yeah then I tweak the rest a little bit for my bigger 3d arrows basically drop the rest a touch or raise Nick height
    With a 27-series diameter shaft, that's a pretty big difference. You just as well start from scratch..the spine is different and the whole 9-yds. Might work with a 22-series GT but the spines wion't differ..But, hey if it works for you. The 22-series have a light enough insert and you can get spine right with point and all. Hey, that's a good reason for the 22's right there. I've often thought that the 22's would make a great all around arrow.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorelli View Post
    That's kind of what I'm expecting to hear- most shooters either aren't paper tuning them, or only using one shaft and it doesn't really "satisfy" me. I like to use the paper to proof my spine/configuration, etc. Honestly, it is probably as much for me gaining confidence in my equipment as anything but I do like to see good "paper work" as verification that my equipment is running well. But evidently the fletching is doing its job to "correct" well as I'm not seeing any bad flight down range. They do seem to group good on initial longer range shooting but 95% of my time has been shooting them indoor so far and that is about to change so we'll see.

    ...or maybe not. I'm not sure I can tolerate them tearing through paper like this. I would specifically love to hear from guys shooting X-Jammers, Triple X, and Full Bores....all of them are shafts I'd consider right now.
    You are shooting groups like this at 60yds and you STILL need some kind of paper tuning verification of your setup to "satisfy" you? WOW. And I thought I paid too much attention to the inconsequential. That group you are shooting is what matters on the 3D course... NOT what they look like shot through paper. If you are CONSISTENTLY getting groups like that, I say leave it alone and enjoy.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowlevlflyer View Post
    You are shooting groups like this at 60yds and you STILL need some kind of paper tuning verification of your setup to "satisfy" you? WOW. And I thought I paid too much attention to the inconsequential. That group you are shooting is what matters on the 3D course... NOT what they look like shot through paper. If you are CONSISTENTLY getting groups like that, I say leave it alone and enjoy.
    Part of the reason I'm doing this is because I have too many "culls" out of a dozen shafts. I can only consistently do this with select shafts and I suspect that it is directly related to the way they shoot through paper.

    The reason I want good flight is that.........well, I want good flight. I do believe they are more forgiving when they fly good. Poor flight is an indication of how the bow is running IMO and when they aren't I lose that gauge on my equipment.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorelli View Post
    Part of the reason I'm doing this is because I have too many "culls" out of a dozen shafts. I can only consistently do this with select shafts and I suspect that it is directly related to the way they shoot through paper.

    The reason I want good flight is that.........well, I want good flight. I do believe they are more forgiving when they fly good. Poor flight is an indication of how the bow is running IMO and when they aren't I lose that gauge on my equipment.
    Ahhh, I gotcha. Now I understand... it's not ALL of your arrows that are shooting this good. Apparently I missed that part somewhere!
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