January 24th, 2012, 11:59 AM
Beman Carbon Flash spine question
I'd like to start getting some lighter arrows put together for field shooting. The price of the Carbon Flash looks appealing, since I'm sure I'll lose plenty even if I pass up the 50+ yard shots. Any caveats with those shafts? Are pultrudeds going to break way faster than Carbon Ones or something similar?
They aren't in the Stu Miller calculator database. Can I just use whatever has the closest stated spine and gpi numbers?
January 24th, 2012, 12:15 PM
didn't realize how cheap those are (carbon flash). Can anyone explain what pultruded carbon is? and if it is worth a flip?
January 24th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Funny, I just used "pultruded" arrow in an email. It's a cheaper way to make carbon arrows - older technology, but still used for cost savings. The arrow's fibers are actually pultruded (pulled) on a mold rod instead of like more advanced carbons, wound and cross-wound. In pultruded, the fiber mat is weaker, as the fibers all run the length of the shaft in same direction - unidirectional weave.
Originally Posted by guyver
These type arrows are more fragile to side impact and to just breaking out from outward pressures from the insert or nock, hence they tend to require out-nocks/over-nocks (nocks that slip over the shaft instead of inside the shaft).
January 24th, 2012, 12:44 PM
I saw an old picture that used outsert (is that the right jargon?) points, too, but the first thing I saw for sale now was a glue-in point. That was one reason I'm worried that they may break quickly. Will the glue-in points split out the first time it hits something harder than foam? By which I mean, the first time I miss the field target completely? By which I mean, most of the time over 20 yards
Originally Posted by Sanford
January 24th, 2012, 12:58 PM
so it seems the only upside is the cost. what sparked my interest was a weak-spined carbon arrow that is cheap, guess the catch is that funky pultrusion mftg process.
Originally Posted by Sanford
would this cheaper arrow be good for finding the right spine one needs? by good I mean cost effective. You could get 3 of each spine for $52.50 (21 arrows @ 2.50/arrow), spine ranging from 530-1400
January 24th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes, an outsert is correct jargon. On the Beman flash, I have no experience with them at all. I don't know how fragile they are in actual use.
January 24th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Guy, being that we would probably only be working within two spines for a given choice scenario, two individual arrows from Lancasters would still probably be more cost effective.
January 24th, 2012, 01:12 PM
was thinking more along the line of having some arrows to go to when a new/different/unfamiliar bow/limbs are being used just to find the right area of spine to be in, IOW like a tool to find the right spine... seems like a cheap way to avoid ordering the wrong spine (of a more expensive arrow) in the future
Last edited by guyver; January 24th, 2012 at 01:14 PM.
January 24th, 2012, 01:16 PM
Yeah, and then you could loan a couple spine sizes to your buddy when he goes to a new and unfamiliar weight limb
January 24th, 2012, 02:49 PM
I'd avoid the Flashs. By the time you fletch and add components they aren't that cheap.
Have a look at the Carbon Impact Super Club arrows. They are wrapped shafts and shoot awesome for the same or a little less.
January 25th, 2012, 12:29 PM
Any idea of the country of origin for the Super Clubs? Their website didn't seem to specify, which is usually a bad sign. I'm trying to spend at least some of my money on domestic production. Couldn't resist the Samick bows, so I willing to pay a few bucks more for US made arrows.
January 25th, 2012, 03:38 PM
I don't believe the Flash's are domestically produced, same with the Carbon Impacts to the best of my knowledge. I like buying domestic, but there is a practical limit when you just can't get the quality at anything under twice the price.
The Super Clubs are in a different league then the Flashes. They are the same shaft as the top of the line Carbon Impact super-fast shafts except .006 straightness, the Flash is an extruded shaft and that construction is known for its tendancy to splinter in long, sharp sections.
January 25th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Beman claims it's domestic, buried in the lower corner of the table: http://www.beman.com/products/product/53
Your point about the linear carbon splintering is well taken. It's nice that the arrows are cheap if they're lost, but less so if you have to constantly judge if it's due to be thrown away. Saving 30 bucks on a half-dozen arrows isn't worth having one explode during the shot and skewering my arm!
January 25th, 2012, 06:21 PM
These are pretty cheap and appear to be nice arrows (Easton Carbon Storm) They seem to be the same arrow as the ICS Bowhunter and the Easton PowerFlight.
January 25th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Walk, sorry, run away from the Carbon Flash. They are light carbon arrows for starters. When I was looking for cheap light arrows for field I was considering them too.
I asked around and was given the advice I gave above. Apparently they are inconsistent in spine. A person in our club who tried them for field had much better results with other arrows.
You'll lose less with better shafts as they'll go to where you aim.
January 25th, 2012, 06:34 PM
the hunter, flash & hawk, were originaly made in France. they were trying to build a plant in the states to manufacture them back in the early 90s. never heard how that worked out. the original flash weighed around 10gr. per inch back then, & was the pick of the 3 for stickbow shooters because of that. the hunters were what the compounders shot so they could get the 5 gr. per pound IBO weights & yes they did splinter pretty often.
January 25th, 2012, 11:42 PM
On a full dozen there is no savings going with the flash. The shafts are cheap but the components aren't included or particularly cheap.
Originally Posted by Buck13
The Super Clubs come with everything, and they have grouped as well at 70m for me as anything else I've tried.
January 26th, 2012, 01:15 AM
I have lots of these carbon flashes and they are not so much. The kids like em ok and my wife shoots some on her compound. I bought some for a lighter recurve and I think they are cheap quality. I doubt your gonna find what your looking for in these.
I am blessed with a wife that shares my addictions
All that expensive gear and still no X's
January 26th, 2012, 12:17 PM
I was thinking (but not stating) that this price difference was compared to moderately-priced woven shafts available bare, e.g. Carbon Ones or VAPs. 'Cause it's very important that I be able to choose exactly the right color fletching.
Originally Posted by grantmac
Being a weight-weenie, I was concerned that vanes are much heavier than Gateway's tiniest feathers. Given our weather, for outdoor use I should probably be more willing to look at vanes, although I'm literally a fair-weather shooter.
I currently have a hunting-type sight set very low in on its windage slide, so I might need to re-think that. The fletching *probably* isn't brushing the sight frame, but it must be very close. I should rub a little chalk on it and find out.
January 26th, 2012, 02:19 PM
I'd put the Super Clubs ahead of VAPs in terms of spine consistency, but they are heavier.
Originally Posted by Buck13
The 2.5" vanes on them are one of the nicer vanes I've seen and shoot really nicely off a rest/plunger combo. My only complaint is the brass points are a little soft.
What spine and length are you after? I've got a few singles kicking around.
January 26th, 2012, 02:39 PM
I'll need pretty floppy arrows. Having read a lot of warnings against beginning over-bowed, I'm starting off with 25#@28" limbs, pulling 29" draw. I don't currently have a plunger, but I could add one if needed to get closer to center-shot. Seems like I read that doing that just to move up to a stiffer arrow is not a good idea, right?
I'll probably add 30 or 35# limbs to my collection when I feel ready. I doubt I'll go up more than that, almost certainly not this year. I'm set up to shoot in my basement and my garage, both at 7 yards, so at least I can shoot often. Maybe too often: the second joint in my ring finger is sore. Anyway, I expect my archery-specific muscles will be getting stronger sooner or later.
At this point, I'm noticing my groups tend to expand after the first few ends, so either my focus is going off quickly or I'm fatiguing. Not sure how to tell those apart. Shoot 30 arrows at a blank target first, then see how my groups look? But I doubt getting heaver limbs is a good idea yet. (Except maybe just to shoot one day a week as strength training? I could also just wrap a stretch band around the bow for that, of course.)
January 26th, 2012, 02:51 PM
I'm going to start another thread on that subject.
Originally Posted by grantmac
Heh. I got the idea last night to shoot at pennies taped to my basement target. I scared it plenty, with quite a few shots within one or two shaft diameters, but only hit the penny once in about 20 shots. It bent the penny a bit and put a tiny hog-nose on my Easton chisel point. I think I'll switch to plastic bottle caps for most of this silliness, but I found a Canadian nickel in my pocket this week, so I'm going to try to shoot Queen Elizabeth in the face.
My only complaint is the brass points are a little soft.
January 26th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Want to borrow a few 20/30 spine? They are .810 and shot just a little weak with my 30# limbs. I think I've got 3-4 of them kicking around.
You make it up this way ever?
January 26th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Disregard my comment. I was under the impression that "light" meant grains per inch.
January 26th, 2012, 03:21 PM
That would be cool. Where on Whidbey do you live? I kayak to Langley from Tulalip marina more often than we drive to Whidbey, but with an excuse to take a drive up there, it might happen fairly soon. If you check your PMs often, I'll contact you there. Otherwise, PM me your email and I'll send you an email when I have a plan. We will probably be in Vancouver and Victoria a couple times in the spring for Irish dance competitions, if your BC location is near the cities.