a href="http://www.lancasterarchery.com/archery-classic-register/#header">
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 126

Thread: What you can get for ~ $700 (a.k.a. Have we lost our bloody minds?)

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    back "home" in Texas
    Posts
    11,725
    Uhm, ehem, did you say you had a Best Zenit? Tell me more...
    Renegade Archer

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,384
    Quote Originally Posted by limbwalker View Post
    Uhm, ehem, did you say you had a Best Zenit? Tell me more...
    Yes, left handed. Bummer huh?
    Barebow Recurve

  3. #53
    Used is the only way to go - I am still bummed that I let Steve buy that nilo out of my backyard - that was a steal. I picked up a used Luxor and LW I have to agree with you it is the finest piece of archery equipment I have laid hands on.

    Matt

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Potter View Post
    Used is the only way to go - I am still bummed that I let Steve buy that nilo out of my backyard - that was a steal. I picked up a used Luxor and LW I have to agree with you it is the finest piece of archery equipment I have laid hands on.

    Matt
    Who knows. I may be the odd man out. I think you, John and I all have draws over 32 inches, and I am the one with the 25 inch Bernardini riser.
    Barebow Recurve

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    back "home" in Texas
    Posts
    11,725
    Hank, bummer indeed. I have a set of limbs that make a 72" bow on that 25" riser though

    John
    Renegade Archer

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Back Home in Indiana.
    Posts
    1,506
    Quote Originally Posted by whiz-Oz View Post
    Where exactly has this been stated? I've not seen it on a manufacturers website or official press release ever.
    Gee, didn't know I'd have to also give a bibiliography with sources.

    Bowhunting and compounds have long provided the capital, so greater innovations could be found in technology and engineering. Recurve archery doesn't butter the bread in the archery world, and it never has. It's a very small percentage of the sport, but still provides name recognition many desire, so they put forth the product and items target archers desire. This has been going on the past 35 years I've been an enthusiast, competitor and dealer.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    back "home" in Texas
    Posts
    11,725
    You said something that makes sense... that recurve target archery provides status and name recognition on the international stage for some companies that they can't get in any other market. I'm of the opinion that top of the range equipment is as much about status as it is about anything else. And the companies know this and play to those desires in that portion of the market.

    John
    Renegade Archer

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mellerstain, Scotland
    Posts
    1,287
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium man View Post
    Gee, didn't know I'd have to also give a bibiliography with sources.

    Bowhunting and compounds have long provided the capital, so greater innovations could be found in technology and engineering. Recurve archery doesn't butter the bread in the archery world, and it never has. It's a very small percentage of the sport, but still provides name recognition many desire, so they put forth the product and items target archers desire. This has been going on the past 35 years I've been an enthusiast, competitor and dealer.
    Can i add something a little odd into the mix. We are doing just dandy over here, no compounds and a small hunting side to our niche.
    We make about 1000 bows a year, and have produced our own level of innovation.
    No scale of economes. but we hold our own in any areana.

    does that make you question the Costs of R&D the mass production boys go through.
    I think the Earl hoyt geometry has recovered its costs, as has the Gold medalist geometry? and dare i ask, have W&W/Samick developed any geometry gains over the work Earl Hoyt did?
    What has been done on the R&D side?
    Join our Facebook page "Border Archery"

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    688
    Yeah, $700 for the latest riser or set of limbs is crazy. I think it would be great to see a top archer compete with a 20 year old kit such as an old Gold Medalist riser and some C+ limbs. My guess is that the scores probably wouldn't change much. The downside is that would tend to drive up prices for used equipment...and I wouldn't like that.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    back "home" in Texas
    Posts
    11,725
    Dave, as someone else pointed out, you don't have to look too far. Many of the foreign competitors were using "outdated" gear at the recent world indoor event and shot quite well. It wasn't that long ago that Butch was shooting some very old (by today's standards) limbs at the Grand Prix event in Antalya, and I've seen him dust off the old FX limbs repeatedly and score very well with them. You could consider Vic's limbs "ancient" too, coming out of Earl's presses at SKY. At least, the ones he was shooting on his out-of-date and out-of-production Mathews riser. Brand loyalty and being a "proper" representative for a particular company is more important to some archers than others. Depending on where they are in their career, an archer may have either more or less freedom to choose. It's typical to see the younger archers toeing the line and the older, more accomplished archers, mixing and matching a little.

    John
    Renegade Archer

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Wherever the Navy sends me
    Posts
    557
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Dave View Post
    Yeah, $700 for the latest riser or set of limbs is crazy. I think it would be great to see a top archer compete with a 20 year old kit such as an old Gold Medalist riser and some C+ limbs. My guess is that the scores probably wouldn't change much. The downside is that would tend to drive up prices for used equipment...and I wouldn't like that.
    When I was first thinking of upgrading my set-up not too long ago, my wife talked me out of it, and after I got over the initial disappointment, I tried to justify and make myself feel better by explaining to her (and make myself believe) that any of the top archers (and a whole lot of not so top archers) would outshoot me even if we traded gear. And I know I am absolutely right about that.

    Fortunately for me, she was talking me out of buying it for myself so she could buy it for me as a graduation gift when I got my Masters last week!!!! (but that still doesn't negate the truth of the previous assertion...)

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,938
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Dave View Post
    Yeah, $700 for the latest riser or set of limbs is crazy. I think it would be great to see a top archer compete with a 20 year old kit such as an old Gold Medalist riser and some C+ limbs. My guess is that the scores probably wouldn't change much. The downside is that would tend to drive up prices for used equipment...and I wouldn't like that.
    .SHHHHHHH.........Come on, man!...You KNOW that would never work!!..The newer the gear, the better the scores, is the RULE!!...(Now dont post anything like that again, I'm looking for some good old gear myself!!...L.O.L...).......... ......Harperman
    Those who separate Politics, and Morality, will never understand either one....John Viscount Morley

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Canberra. Australia.
    Posts
    642
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium man View Post
    Gee, didn't know I'd have to also give a bibiliography with sources.
    Well, you said "They say".
    So who exactly are "They"?
    If you can't identify who they are, then your statement about what they say is inattributable.

    You are asserting something as a fact, but providing absolutely no justification behind it.
    Being that only companies involved in producing recurve bows can make that statement, who you refer to is in fact, obvious.

    That you cannot provide evidence that any of these specific companies have made that statement, makes your generic statement totally worthless.

    Why would you publically undermine your own credibility on an Internet forum, by offering up worthless statements of conjecture?
    What am I supposed to believe about contributions made by titanium man?
    Should I believe you or just assign your writings to that huge pile of internet noise?

    What can you say that will encourage me to believe you?
    15,306 miles around the USA in 3.5 months. I drove past your house!

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    32,177
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium man View Post
    That's the problem with production muzzleloaders. Unless you have someone who specifically will pay what you want, used ones carry as little value as used archery equipment. Muzzleloading is a lot like archery in many respects.
    I dunno, used archery gear in good condition seems to hold its value fairly well, with current make ILF gear often going for 2/3ds retail on the AT classifieds. You have to expect some depreciation since buying used gear can be a risk vs. new.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  15. #65
    Not to mention that the models aren't changed each year to stimulate sales...

    Quote Originally Posted by limbwalker View Post
    For the price of one of these (that you can't do anything with by itself, mind you):

    http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt...rve-riser.html

    http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-...rve-riser.html


    You could buy any one of these:

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat105538680

    http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...2&merchID=4006

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat105523380

    Only the guns have hundreds of years of intricate engineering and thousands of hours of field testing designed into them, and will hold their value through generations.

    I just think we've just gone completely nuts sometimes.

    John

  16. #66
    Whizzy...you don't need any encouragement. I think you probably do enough self talk to handle that end of your life.



    Quote Originally Posted by whiz-Oz View Post
    Well, you said "They say".
    So who exactly are "They"?
    If you can't identify who they are, then your statement about what they say is inattributable.

    You are asserting something as a fact, but providing absolutely no justification behind it.
    Being that only companies involved in producing recurve bows can make that statement, who you refer to is in fact, obvious.

    That you cannot provide evidence that any of these specific companies have made that statement, makes your generic statement totally worthless.

    Why would you publically undermine your own credibility on an Internet forum, by offering up worthless statements of conjecture?
    What am I supposed to believe about contributions made by titanium man?
    Should I believe you or just assign your writings to that huge pile of internet noise?

    What can you say that will encourage me to believe you?

  17. #67
    I think the R&D stuff comes primarily from the salesmen at point of sale to dealers. It helps to justify the increased in MSRP and the bump in dealer cost. However, if you asked most company's I would suspect they would say the same thing...the cost of development for new gear and the added cost of bringing it to market, and the cost of advertising it...yada yada. But, frankly, each company has the same economic challenges we do, i.e. increase in material cost, increase in labor cost, increase in insurance, increase in general overhead, increase in equipment etc...all adds to the cost of the item. Not to mention the devaluation of money...well, it's damn tough to be in business. So, to create an income stream they need to produce equipment that stimulate excitement, promises better results, and/or give the buyer a better image of themselves (sex appeal).

    If company's could produce at overhead rates of 20 years ago..well the new risers of today would reflect that pricing scale.

    Hell, I can remember when bread was 25cents a loaf.....is the bread better today then it was then...????

    I'm sure Sid would agree with this.

    My 2 cents.
    Art

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Back Home in Indiana.
    Posts
    1,506
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtV View Post
    I think the R&D stuff comes primarily from the salesmen at point of sale to dealers. It helps to justify the increased in MSRP and the bump in dealer cost. However, if you asked most company's I would suspect they would say the same thing...the cost of development for new gear and the added cost of bringing it to market, and the cost of advertising it...yada yada. But, frankly, each company has the same economic challenges we do, i.e. increase in material cost, increase in labor cost, increase in insurance, increase in general overhead, increase in equipment etc...all adds to the cost of the item. Not to mention the devaluation of money...well, it's damn tough to be in business. So, to create an income stream they need to produce equipment that stimulate excitement, promises better results, and/or give the buyer a better image of themselves (sex appeal).

    If company's could produce at overhead rates of 20 years ago..well the new risers of today would reflect that pricing scale.

    Hell, I can remember when bread was 25cents a loaf.....is the bread better today then it was then...????

    I'm sure Sid would agree with this.

    My 2 cents.
    Art
    I remember when college tuition was $30/hr. Now it's over 10 times that when in true cost of living it should be only 4 times. Nuts.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Back Home in Indiana.
    Posts
    1,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbow View Post
    I dunno, used archery gear in good condition seems to hold its value fairly well, with current make ILF gear often going for 2/3ds retail on the AT classifieds. You have to expect some depreciation since buying used gear can be a risk vs. new.
    I've seen some strange behavior when people buy used. A couple of years ago, I posted Navigators at cost, brand new in the tube, with points, and didn't get any legitimate nibbles. Yet, I've seen people selling 11 out of 12 fletched "used" arrows, at rather proud pricing, and they are scooped up quickly. I think it also depends on what area you're from, and how available various equipment is to you.

    I think risers keep value as opposed to limbs, as it's buyer beware with limbs and used compounds. When buying used compounds, you are also at the mercy of how long it has been since the cables have been changed, and usually, people change these first, so sometimes that part can be negotiated into the asking price.

    In regards to muzzleloaders, it's mostly a liability issue. Gun shops around here won't give anything for a used black powder rifle, as they have no idea how well it was taken care of, cleaned, whether the barrel is pitted, etc. etc. The best way to sell one of these is from individual to individual. For that matter, it is pretty much the same when trading bows to a dealer.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    32,177
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium man View Post
    I think risers keep value as opposed to limbs, as it's buyer beware with limbs and used compounds. When buying used compounds, you are also at the mercy of how long it has been since the cables have been changed, and usually, people change these first, so sometimes that part can be negotiated into the asking price.
    Good point. I was thinking mostly of FITA Recurve gear. I don't shoot compounds so I have no idea how they depreciate, but I get the impression that because new designs keep coming out and because compound shooters like to shoot the latest and greatest even more than recurve archers that they may depreciate almost as fast as computers

    For a while there seemed to be a number of the formula bows in the classifieds--not sure why, maybe people just spent more than they could afford and needed to sell them?
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    back "home" in Texas
    Posts
    11,725
    I'm not so sure that compounders like the latest and greatest any more than recurvers do. Not with the number of folks that I've seen or heard of running out to buy the newest design... Esp. at that price.

    John
    Renegade Archer

  22. #72
    I sell something when I get low on beer money..... Now I bet Whizzy wants an explanation, with a substantive graph, and receipts to insure that is an accurate statement.

    Sorry, Whizzy, couldn't help it. Cause someone, they, those who know, them over there, as it's told...made me do it.

    Art, the dreaming, latent dislocated, semi functional, bow shooting. feather splitter, suffering for lack of an Oz fix. Dude

  23. #73
    Well, for sure,,,,,lack of sales will tell a company they have hit the price point on an item.



    Quote Originally Posted by limbwalker View Post
    I'm not so sure that compounders like the latest and greatest any more than recurvers do. Not with the number of folks that I've seen or heard of running out to buy the newest design... Esp. at that price.

    John


  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    533
    Quote Originally Posted by limbwalker
    I'm not so sure that compounders like the latest and greatest any more than recurvers do. Not with the number of folks that I've seen or heard of running out to buy the newest design... Esp. at that price.

    John
    The "latest and greatest" is a standard of modern living. We, especially Americans, have come to expect an update to most things in our lives year after year.

    Computers have always been like that with the rapid development of technology. But now look at the auto industry, a decade ago and new model of a car came out every 2-4 years and when it did, it was a slightly revised tail light. Now not only do you get major updates, some models are scrapped and new ones appear within a few years. I remember when Hoyt was the exact same way with their bow line....
    The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.

    One man's ceiling is another man's floor

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    94
    I'll agree that compounders don't necessarily like the latest and greatest any more than recurvers.
    Compound manufacturers put out new bows every year.
    Win&Win's CXT has been out for at least a year, and they updated the product cycle, so it's unlikely to be replaced this year either. The Italian risers haven't seemed to undergo any major new variations in the past year.

    For recurvers, perhaps it's just that the lates and greatest doesn't happen as often.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •