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Thread: 2012 AT, West Forum, "Post up your elk sounds" Part 3 Grunts/Chuckles with Bugles

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by eltaco View Post
    I'm certainly more interested in hunting situations... but I'll try add some growl to it just to see if I can do it through the sequence.



    How did my new grunts sound? Was that what you were looking for?
    There are a lot of guys that believe that sounding like a juvenile/younger bull is the way to go so you don't intimidate other bulls. I don't buy into that thinking. I have seen the opposite too many times.
    Your grunts are coming along just fine.
    I don't think you guys need me anymore.
    Passion for the outdoors is what drives me, but respect for it and all that live there is what makes it live on.


  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    There are a lot of guys that believe that sounding like a juvenile/younger bull is the way to go so you don't intimidate other bulls. I don't buy into that thinking. I have seen the opposite too many times.
    Your grunts are coming along just fine.
    I don't think you guys need me anymore.
    The day that I sound soooo bad a that I can intimidate a herd bull is the day I quit hunting... lol!

    I can only dream of ever matching the intensity of a live bull.

  3. #178
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    I agree. I havent heard 1 person bugle bigger than the elk ive heard/seen bugle in the wild. For those that ran a bull off cuz they thought they sounded too big, more than likely made the wrong sound at the wrong time. Or was seen, smelled or detected by the elk. And just maybe were viewed as a phoney by the elk because something did not fit.
    "The Arrow is everything"
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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    Try adding a little voice inflection with sucking in air because from 15' I should be able to hear it Conlan.
    Can you hear the sucking air better in these clips Gregg?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-1

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-2




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  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Can you hear the sucking air better in these clips Gregg?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-1

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-2





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    Better, see you guys don't need me any more.
    Passion for the outdoors is what drives me, but respect for it and all that live there is what makes it live on.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    Better, see you guys don't need me any more.
    That's like saying Christians don't need Jesus anymore, LOL!

    You're our fearless leader!

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Can you hear the sucking air better in these clips Gregg?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-1

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/22-2




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    Buddy, you are sounding REALLY good. I can certainly hear more sucking in on those two than the previous.

    What grunt tube are you using? You mentioned that you changed to a wider opening.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by eltaco View Post
    Buddy, you are sounding REALLY good. I can certainly hear more sucking in on those two than the previous.

    What grunt tube are you using? You mentioned that you changed to a wider opening.
    I have two of Elknut's original Chucklers. One with the older and smaller opening and one with the current and slightly larger opening. I honestly prefer the smaller for bugling in general due to it's increased sound and pitch, but the bigger one has it's advantages too. They are both modified with electrical rubber splicing tape per Paul's advice after a few people told me it sounded somewhat plasticy. I put three wraps of tape, three separate places each about 2.5" further back from the end of the barrel. They normally come with one wrap of the same splicing tape in two places from Paul. This is more suited for most callers per his advice.
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  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    Better, see you guys don't need me any more.
    Riiiggghhhttt. I have a lot more to learn.


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  10. #185
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    Wow everyone is doing a great job. Definately improvement across the board. Its a great thread when people can use information that others are willing to share and takes out of it what works for them and improve. I have thoughly enjoyed everyones sounds from begining to end..

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Riiiggghhhttt. I have a lot more to learn.


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    lol i guess he just isn't "feelin the love" anymore cuz i called him "washed up" but those were in his own words not mine lol. i was just repeating what i heard
    "The Arrow is everything"
    "Never Give Up........Ever"
    "I Call, They Come, I Kill Them" Gregg Stevens
    "Not all Elk Encounters are Created Equal" Paul Medel aka ElkNut1
    "The Rockies are no place to find out you are not in shape" Trophyhill

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Riiiggghhhttt. I have a lot more to learn.


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    And what is it that you need help with? You have all the mechanics you need to do anything I do Conlan.
    Quote Originally Posted by trophyhill View Post
    lol i guess he just isn't "feelin the love" anymore cuz i called him "washed up" but those were in his own words not mine lol. i was just repeating what i heard
    Yeah your eating elk and I am starving!
    Passion for the outdoors is what drives me, but respect for it and all that live there is what makes it live on.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    And what is it that you need help with? You have all the mechanics you need to do anything I do Conlan.

    Yeah your eating elk and I am starving!
    I have a hard time sounding "mean" or getting that mature elk sound. That's what I will focus on in the coming months. That means the lip bawl, growling and proper pitch, along with ape like grunts. If you continue to allow me to bounce sounds off of you, that would be very helpful. That's all I'm saying.


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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    And what is it that you need help with? You have all the mechanics you need to do anything I do Conlan.
    Can you tell me how to make this better?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/p2


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  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Can you tell me how to make this better?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/p2


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    Conlan, seriously some of the best calling I've heard. You'll give the bulls a VERY hard time with calling like that this Fall.

    I'd still say that I can't hear you sucking back in between grunts. They've improved a lot, I can hear some good thump at the end of your grunt, but no deep sucking sound before you start the next. I'll say that I'm still working on this as well, but I can hear a distinct difference between yours and Gregg's calling with regards to this.

    I found out that if I make a conscious effort to exhale completely at the end of my grunt, I make a much more distinct sound when sucking back in to go to the next.

    Here's my latest attempt. I need to find some more time to call other than in the truck before I walk in the door to work!
    http://soundcloud.com/eltaco/sucking-grunts

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Can you tell me how to make this better?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/p2


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    Conlan can your lower the pitch in your voice to start the call? Hold the low pitch a fuzz longer before you start up. When you come down off the bugle that is the first grunt so close down the gap.
    Passion for the outdoors is what drives me, but respect for it and all that live there is what makes it live on.

  17. #192
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    I hear so many people that don't suck air in on their grunts. I know where it came from. It came from external reed tubes. If you opened up your mouth to suck air you lost your position on the reed and loose the call. Some how that transitioned into mouth calls. I sucked air from day one, that is the way I learned.
    I do teach mechanics better than some guys and I think the most important things to learn are reed control and cadence or timing of the call.
    Reed control is obvious, if you can't make the sound where are you. Cadence isn't so obvious to a lot of people. The pieces of the call fit in a certain order and time frame. Now each elk is a little different in the way it sounds but the cadence is still there. There is a cadence to a scream, there is a cadence to a courtship bugle, there is a cadence to a grunt.
    The other thing is people get this perfect call in their head, elk aren't perfect. If you really listen to a bull, how often does he make the same bugle note for note? We know that emotion drives his bugle but can you adapt to that? I called at RMEF comps and I know how good these guys are but the elk do things that if you do in competition you will lose. I know because I did that. That isn't what the judges want to hear but the elk do.
    People want to sound like a pro and I understand why. I want to sound like the elk. I am very fortunate that I live in CO. I was in the middle of elk herds all summer for years just to listen and learn. I'll be very honest, I never put the pieces together the way Paul[Elknut] did. I did learn to feel the pulse of what is going on in the herd and how to blend in or disrupt that pattern. So let me back up and add one more skill in calling, Paul has been saying it for years and he is right, listen!
    Passion for the outdoors is what drives me, but respect for it and all that live there is what makes it live on.

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    Conlan can your lower the pitch in your voice to start the call? Hold the low pitch a fuzz longer before you start up. When you come down off the bugle that is the first grunt so close down the gap.
    I will certainly try. Producing a deeper pitch is one of the hardest things for me. (maybe the hardest thing) But I think closing the gap shouldn't be hard at all. It will just take some practice. Thanks Gregg!


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  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by eltaco View Post
    Conlan, seriously some of the best calling I've heard. You'll give the bulls a VERY hard time with calling like that this Fall.

    I'd still say that I can't hear you sucking back in between grunts. They've improved a lot, I can hear some good thump at the end of your grunt, but no deep sucking sound before you start the next. I'll say that I'm still working on this as well, but I can hear a distinct difference between yours and Gregg's calling with regards to this.

    I found out that if I make a conscious effort to exhale completely at the end of my grunt, I make a much more distinct sound when sucking back in to go to the next.

    Here's my latest attempt. I need to find some more time to call other than in the truck before I walk in the door to work!
    http://soundcloud.com/eltaco/sucking-grunts
    Thank you Jeremy. I think what you are suggesting about fully inhaling and exhaling will improve the realism in my grunts. I don't have the diaphragm size of most guys and the more air I can produce, the more resonance I should be able to get. I can really hear what you are saying in your sound clip.


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  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    I hear so many people that don't suck air in on their grunts. I know where it came from. It came from external reed tubes. If you opened up your mouth to suck air you lost your position on the reed and loose the call. Some how that transitioned into mouth calls. I sucked air from day one, that is the way I learned.
    I do teach mechanics better than some guys and I think the most important things to learn are reed control and cadence or timing of the call.
    Reed control is obvious, if you can't make the sound where are you. Cadence isn't so obvious to a lot of people. The pieces of the call fit in a certain order and time frame. Now each elk is a little different in the way it sounds but the cadence is still there. There is a cadence to a scream, there is a cadence to a courtship bugle, there is a cadence to a grunt.
    The other thing is people get this perfect call in their head, elk aren't perfect. If you really listen to a bull, how often does he make the same bugle note for note? We know that emotion drives his bugle but can you adapt to that? I called at RMEF comps and I know how good these guys are but the elk do things that if you do in competition you will lose. I know because I did that. That isn't what the judges want to hear but the elk do.
    People want to sound like a pro and I understand why. I want to sound like the elk. I am very fortunate that I live in CO. I was in the middle of elk herds all summer for years just to listen and learn. I'll be very honest, I never put the pieces together the way Paul[Elknut] did. I did learn to feel the pulse of what is going on in the herd and how to blend in or disrupt that pattern. So let me back up and add one more skill in calling, Paul has been saying it for years and he is right, listen!
    This is a very good point Gregg. What you are teaching us will make implementing Elknut (Paul's) techniques VERY seamless.

    I literally started to use a reed in 2010 after ordering all of Paul's material. I watched those DVD's, talked to Paul and read his Playbook and everything just clicked. It was all exactly how it always happened to me and I was doing the worst possible thing in many scenarios (yet is still worked once in awhile). I knew that if I practiced my calling enough to sound kind of like an elk, I would slay them due to me already knowing what they were saying and what they wanted or didn't want. That first year (2010) we setup on about 15-20 bulls in 6 days of hunting (man I need a journal so I can remember better) and the majority of them walked into shooting range. The percentage called in was around 70-75% if I remember correctly. This was amazing to us if you factor in our calling ability and the fact that we were used to about 10% in the past.

    One bull that I shot poorly due to a deflection at 15 or so yards, was a giant herd bull, maybe 320" at the smallest but I tried to ignore the antlers. He left his herem of cows and came in pissed off like I have never seen to the threat. 10 minutes later I called in a decent 6x6 to 15 feet with no bow and kept him within 20 yards for around 5 minutes with Paul's rock throwing suggestion and cow calling. My partner decided to pass on this bull. Later that day my partner called another 300"+ herd bull away from his cows and into my dad at 10 yards with the threat.

    If I could go back to that same season now, I feel like I could call in every single one of the bulls we setup on. By putting the calling together with Paul's techniques I feel like I can't go wrong in the elk woods and my confidence as an elk hunter is at an all time high. That is why we practice more than anyone though I guess.

    Is it September yet? =)


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  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by gselkhunter View Post
    Mike once the link is up, click on the white arrow inside the orange circle and it should play. Are you sure your speakers are turned on and the volume is up?
    Maybe I'm just blocked here at work. They won't do anything.
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  22. #197
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    Since it looks like thread 1 and 2 were deleted, I just wanted to post up my updated take on a locate bugle. I am working on ending the bugle smoothly and not having to start with the growl. What do you guys think?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/sound...nday-evening-1


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  23. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Since it looks like thread 1 and 2 were deleted, I just wanted to post up my updated take on a locate bugle. I am working on ending the bugle smoothly and not having to start with the growl. What do you guys think?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/sound...nday-evening-1


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    Solid.. I really do like how you ended that...
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  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim9300 View Post
    Since it looks like thread 1 and 2 were deleted, I just wanted to post up my updated take on a locate bugle. I am working on ending the bugle smoothly and not having to start with the growl. What do you guys think?

    http://soundcloud.com/slim9300/sound...nday-evening-1


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    Freaking awesome. I also find that now the way I drop my jaw to hit my low note at the end of a bugle has made it hard for me to drop the pitch without sliding it in. A spike squeal is one of the hardest things for me for this very reason.

    Do me a favor and don't show up in CO this weekend. I don't want to call against you on stage ...

  25. #200
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    Thanks guys! It's been my calling "crutch" since the beginning and I feel like I am finally finding the reed control I was missing.

    Jeremy, you are going to shock some people in that competition. Why don't you post up a take or two of your routine? I know you have been practicing like crazy!


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