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Thread: did i make the right call

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bowden67 View Post
    this bad experence has made me to decide not to shoot any more asa events for a while.




    good ridance.


  2. #52
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    want to know more about the strings you make might need you to make me some. big ole tall boy from north carolina said they were real good strings. after i heard from other people around you when it happen,i would have to call bs on the X.just as i stated before the arrow has to be propeled toward target. i also shoot open a and was in augusta. this happen to me 3 years ago i was allow to reach arrow from stob and shoot. i was a rule at one time.
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  3. #53
    check out nuclear chicken bowstrings on facebook

  4. #54
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    Seems to me it comes down to what happened to the arrow, was it propelled by the string or was it dropped. If propelled it's a bummer for the weekend, if dropped it was a bad call.

    Something like this happened last year with one of the Pro shooters, can't remember which one.

  5. #55
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    There are 3 sides to every story. Yours...His...Then, there is the Truth!
    I wasn't there, so don't expect me to fall in with you, or all of those that are so quick to judge and call someone a cheater on your behalf. I'm amazed how quick some of you can jump to conclusions.
    Besides, throwing in the towel, actually shows a lack of integrity to me.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by bowden67 View Post
    this is my second year in asa and shooting open a,i guy in my group who we will call "nuclear" was letting down and the arrow came off and landed about 8 feet away. he said he could reshoot it,i stated i beleive the rule is if the arrow is propeled then it is an x. i said to ask the range official to rule on it and he said it was an x. after that he would not talk to us and stood in onther group with his "nuclear buddies" and bad mouth me. after the shoot he was talking with a mutual friend and called me every name in the book and how every body in open a hates me. its hard to go to kentucky with waiting on me,so did i make the right call or not?
    i fail to see the relevance in this... the shooter in question ended up with a 359 and 5 bonus rings for 75th place... if he had shot a 14 on the target he wouldve only moved to 57th place.. if it was me, since this was well into the second day so his eventual score wouldve been pretty obvious, i wouldve said, "hey buddy, pick it up and shoot it, in fact shoot two down there and we'll give you the total score for both arrows"

    we aint talking about the pros he guys!! which btw Dan Mccarthy had the EXACT same thing happen to him in Texas last year, yall know what he did? took the zero like a man (and by that i mean he didnt go trash talk to all his buddies) and came back and won the tournament with a ZERO!

  7. #57
    I know in the IBO if you can reach it from the stake even if your laying on your belly it's not a shot. I personally would want the guy to get his arrow and shoot it at the target, I want to beat my peers by shooting against them not try to take advantage of someones mistake, than to be insulted on a public forum and called a cheater WOW.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by landing10s View Post
    i fail to see the relevance in this... the shooter in question ended up with a 359 and 5 bonus rings for 75th place... if he had shot a 14 on the target he wouldve only moved to 57th place.. if it was me, since this was well into the second day so his eventual score wouldve been pretty obvious, i wouldve said, "hey buddy, pick it up and shoot it, in fact shoot two down there and we'll give you the total score for both arrows"

    we aint talking about the pros he guys!! which btw Dan Mccarthy had the EXACT same thing happen to him in Texas last year, yall know what he did? took the zero like a man (and by that i mean he didnt go trash talk to all his buddies) and came back and won the tournament with a ZERO!
    whoops!! ive gotten misinformation somewhere as that was the story i was told about dan mccarthy but he shot a 426 with 17, therefor since they dont count 14s it is physically impossibly for him to have missed a target.. if anyone know the real twist of that story i would be really interested!!!

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by WDMJR3DBOWGUY View Post
    You discuss yardage at every target you missed this weekend and before. Follow the rules to the letter or not at all. Don't hate on me because people that saw your shooting, saw your attitude, and made their own opinions.
    Is it me or is this guy calling him out for not shooting well? he also said something about "i hope you get better as a person and shooter" kinda harsh coming from a guy who has never finished above 57th in a pro am and has never shot higher than a 378.. sounds to me like this whole contraversy shouldve happened in bow nervous not open a.......

  10. #60
    could this be a bit of fall out from the range finding binos? folks gonna start being "range police" ? folks need to use that commodity that is in such short supply...common sense.
    sorry i suckered into commenting originally on this thread...but i'll beat up on myself for that alone...not on this forum.
    Can you point me toward the target, please?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by landing10s View Post
    Is it me or is this guy calling him out for not shooting well? he also said something about "i hope you get better as a person and shooter" kinda harsh coming from a guy who has never finished above 57th in a pro am and has never shot higher than a 378.. sounds to me like this whole contraversy shouldve happened in bow nervous not open a.......
    I did not make this an issue on here, he did. Plus how do you know how I was shooting before this happened?


    Look it's done it's over I got a zero on it. It was a bad call in my opinion and others. But what's done is done and maybe the asa will do something about making the rules more clear. There are two many rules with grey areas and to many people, including range officials who do not know the rules.

    It was not cool to drag my business into this and that's my problem with the whole thing. Hope you come to Kentucky, Robert.
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  12. #62
    [QUOTE=WDMJR3DBOWGUY;1064031419]I did not make this an issue on here, he did. Plus how do you know how I was shooting before this happened?


    QUOTE]

    A friend of mine shoots semi and he said you came to his group after it happened and told them that you had at that point shot 2 5s and "now a miss" so it was easy to assume that you prolly had a pile of 8s at that point too.. and since you shot a 193 the first day one can only assume you were down a good bit when it happened, and you only had 5 bonus rings at the end of the weekend therefor the making a close estimate to your score at that point was pretty easy!

    not trying to be hard on you but was it really necesary to bad mouth this guy after it happened?

  13. #63
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    Assumption is the mother of you know what. I did shoot a 5 after this happened and had shot one earlier, but it does not mean I was shooting that horrible of a score. I did have a pile of tens in my pocket and had shot a resonable score the day before, wasnt gone win it but might have finished better than i did. That shouldnt matter though, scores should not influence rules. Personal agendas can, as I feel is the case here since he brought my business into it. If I hadn't been wearing a shirt with my business name on it what would he have called me then, "Hoyt guy"? I said it before, rules where picked and choose from to suit the needs at the time. I always call it fair and have always been stricter on myself in the rules. But it is what it is.

    And I believe the rules read it is upon the group to decide, not the range official.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcrayford2001 View Post
    I dunno about this..... I have never let down WITHOUT someone stating that I had to let down due to safety reasons (someone within an unsafe distance behind target, no arrow loaded, something stuck in the cams, etc)....

    Wouldn't this all be clearly solved if the rules were changed to read "Upon letdown, the score shall be marked as a zero" ?

    I mean, by the time you step to the shooting stake, should you not be ready and willing to release the arrow? I guess what I'm asking is; why let down?

    I'm not knocking anyone for letting down, just want to know more please....

    J.
    Zero for a letdown!!

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by jimb View Post
    Zero for a letdown!!
    I hope you weren't agreeing with that. Its about as well-grounded as outlawing all optics because of one cheater.



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcrayford2001 View Post
    I dunno about this..... I have never let down WITHOUT someone stating that I had to let down due to safety reasons (someone within an unsafe distance behind target, no arrow loaded, something stuck in the cams, etc)....

    Wouldn't this all be clearly solved if the rules were changed to read "Upon letdown, the score shall be marked as a zero" ?

    I mean, by the time you step to the shooting stake, should you not be ready and willing to release the arrow? I guess what I'm asking is; why let down?

    I'm not knocking anyone for letting down, just want to know more please....

    J.

    Why letdown ???

    Let's see -

    (1) Glare on my peep, lens, etc. so I need to request someone to shade
    (2) Can't see my pin on the target, need to turn on light
    (3) Backtension release did not cooperate, and my hold got shaky
    (4) Somebody down range yelled "yahoo" or "14" and caused me to loose focus
    (5) A mosquito flew up my nose, or in my eye
    (6) I lost my spot that I was aiming at
    (7) The set up just didn't feel right
    (8) Etc., etc,

    From your equipment list, it appears you are a Hunter class shooter. I have had many discussions with Hunter guys who get irritated at Open class shooters taking their full allotment of time to estimate range and shoot, and letting down.

    This happened in Open A - in Open classes, let-downs are common place. In fact, I wish I could learn to actually let down when things aren't quite right instead of trying to force the shot. I can think of at least 4 shots this weekend I could have improved if I had let down and started over. I did let down on 3 I can recall, and ended up with a 10 or 12 on all of them. If I had forced the shot on those, they would have likely all been 8s or worse, because my pin float was getting far wider than I wanted.

    Banning let-downs is not the answer. I don't want a guy forcing a shot when he is shaking like a leaf in a tornado, smacking a nearby tree, sending carbon shards all over the place.
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  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by dgmeadows View Post
    Why letdown ???

    Let's see -

    (1) Glare on my peep, lens, etc. so I need to request someone to shade
    (2) Can't see my pin on the target, need to turn on light
    (3) Backtension release did not cooperate, and my hold got shaky
    (4) Somebody down range yelled "yahoo" or "14" and caused me to loose focus
    (5) A mosquito flew up my nose, or in my eye
    (6) I lost my spot that I was aiming at
    (7) The set up just didn't feel right
    (8) Etc., etc,

    From your equipment list, it appears you are a Hunter class shooter. I have had many discussions with Hunter guys who get irritated at Open class shooters taking their full allotment of time to estimate range and shoot, and letting down.

    This happened in Open A - in Open classes, let-downs are common place. In fact, I wish I could learn to actually let down when things aren't quite right instead of trying to force the shot. I can think of at least 4 shots this weekend I could have improved if I had let down and started over. I did let down on 3 I can recall, and ended up with a 10 or 12 on all of them. If I had forced the shot on those, they would have likely all been 8s or worse, because my pin float was getting far wider than I wanted.

    Banning let-downs is not the answer. I don't want a guy forcing a shot when he is shaking like a leaf in a tornado, smacking a nearby tree, sending carbon shards all over the place.
    Ok, cool.... Thanks dg for the insight as to why someone would let down...

    Yes, I agree that if it's an unsafe situation (no arrow loaded, someone downrange, etc) then a let down is required and should not be penalized in any way. I also agree that between the different classes (Hunter vs Open) that there must be different, allowable changes to the rules to appease both classes....

    Yes, I guess I could be classified as a Hunter class shooter. I got into 3D for the hunting practice only; not for points. So I was just wondering about the mental aspect of a let down. Again, I use 3D as a practice for hunting and couldn't picture myself in a hunting situation letting down on every draw opportunity I've had to adjust for glare on peep, shaking, etc.... If I let down on an animal, *most* times they are gone for good.

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABTABB View Post
    Had a Guy in Our group completely let down, and the arrow just kind of plucked off the string.. It only went about 5 or 6 feet, but then it flipped end over end a couple times and ended up 10-12 feet away.. He knew it was an X but, We talked Him into going to ask the Range Official, just to clarify.. I really wish this rule could be altered but, I realize You have to draw the line somewhere.. It's just Unfortunate when Everybody realizes it's not a "Shot"..
    This is what I have been think.

    It should be the group's decision in my opinion. If a guy is obviously letting down and the arrows falls out, it isn't a shot.

    Kev
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    Kev <><
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  19. #69
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    You got robbed.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcrayford2001 View Post
    Ok, cool.... Thanks dg for the insight as to why someone would let down...

    Yes, I agree that if it's an unsafe situation (no arrow loaded, someone downrange, etc) then a let down is required and should not be penalized in any way. I also agree that between the different classes (Hunter vs Open) that there must be different, allowable changes to the rules to appease both classes....

    Yes, I guess I could be classified as a Hunter class shooter. I got into 3D for the hunting practice only; not for points. So I was just wondering about the mental aspect of a let down. Again, I use 3D as a practice for hunting and couldn't picture myself in a hunting situation letting down on every draw opportunity I've had to adjust for glare on peep, shaking, etc.... If I let down on an animal, *most* times they are gone for good.

    J.
    J. -

    Most open class archers started 3D as a way to practice hunting. I remember having conversations with my shooting buddies "back when" I first started shooting 3D. I used to wonder why some guys took so long and let down so many times, and I thought the long stabilizers were silly. Then I moved from novice class (30 yards) to hunter and realized that the difference between 30 and 40 yards is a big difference, particularly when shooting ASA speed limit rules. Then I got target panic and had to try a back tension release... then I just had to see if a lens would help... then I just had to see if a single pin would give me a more clear sight picture... then I just had to try the longer stabs to see if they really did make a difference. Within a few years, I had become one of "them".

    Anyway, sorry for the thread hi-jack, but the longer you play this game, the more likely you are to get sucked into the vortex of playing for points rather than preparing for hunting. Some avoid it and just keep on shooting their hunting set ups, but many more end up moving to the open classes and loving it.
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  21. #71
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    To the OP, I dont agree with presenting this on an open forum in the manner you did. Regardless of what happened or who was right. Its one thing to find out the "what would you have done" to the AT community but it was pretty easy for alot of people on here to know who you were talking about. Dont get me wrong it makes for a good read at lunchtime. And I'll probably check out nuclear chicken strings now.

  22. #72
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    I'm confused...the OP says this:

    Quote Originally Posted by bowden67 View Post
    ...guy in my group who we will call "nuclear" was letting down and the arrow came off and landed about 8 feet away.
    The person, who apparently was at the stake, and who received the X said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by WDMJR3DBOWGUY View Post
    Well since I'm the shooter in question...the range official explained the rule and you were the only one in the group that decided what you did....

    The bow was at rest, I was all the way down, I was removing the release from the loop with it caused it...it was seen by more than just you. I took my zero and wasn't happy about it.
    AND:

    Quote Originally Posted by WDMJR3DBOWGUY View Post
    I was also the first one to call it a zero until I was told by others including 2 in my group that it wasn't.
    AND:

    Quote Originally Posted by WDMJR3DBOWGUY View Post
    Can you please show me where in the rule book it says if you can reach it from the stake. I've been told it wasn't there. I could've reached it by just bending over.
    So...either the arrow was 8 feet away, or it was essentially at the shooter's feet (Unless he posessesses the longest arms in the history of mankind) or it was somewhere in the middle.

    So...what was exactly asked of the range official? If he was told that the arrow was 8 feet away, it seems it is clearly a shot arrow. Is this what he was told? Was he told the shooter could "bend over and pick it" from the stake. 2 entirely different factual situations, with 2 entirely different outcomes based on interpretation of rules and what was told to the official who explained the rules.

    But...the shooter in question also says that he was the first to call it a "0" until others told himn it could be re-shot...so obviously, before any range official was involved, he himself, thought it was a "0" based on his interpretation of the rules...

    And, based on what has been presented, apparently from both sides, and with the addition that it appears the 2 others in the group said it could be re-shot, I don't don't see any "cheating" or attempt to "cheat" involved...anyone who assumed there was cheating, or the intent to cheat without knowing more, is, IMO, a bigger detriment to archery in general than any of the people directly involved in this situation, and should be offering an apology...but I doubt that will occur...making them look even worse...
    There's not much of a lesson to be learned the second time a calf kicks you in the balz.

  23. #73
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    It's not even in the rules now that you have to be touching the stake.

    The ASA sends the rules out each year. I think more people need to study them before they go shoot, including myself.
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  24. #74
    The OP should not have brought the guys business into it. From what I hear the shooter in question makes EXCELLENT STRINGS! This was supposed to be a thread about a ruling on a "GREY AREA."

    This thread is taking it TOO FAR and you just wanted to drag his name through the mud! Which....if I remember correctly, you were complaining about the shooter in question doing.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathewdbl_lung View Post
    The OP should not have brought the guys business into it. From what I hear the shooter in question makes EXCELLENT STRINGS! This was supposed to be a thread about a ruling on a "GREY AREA."

    This thread is taking it TOO FAR and you just wanted to drag his name through the mud! Which....if I remember correctly, you were complaining about the shooter in question doing.
    Good post.

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