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Thread: More MOney for US ARCHERY

  1. #1
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    More MOney for US ARCHERY

    On top of the 150 dollar entry fee and the 75 dollar late fee, apparently US Archery has come up with another way of getting money out of its membership.

    CREDENTIALED PERSONAL COACHES. Yes, If I want to coach my son or my JOAD kids on the waiting line, I or my students have to pay 20 bucks (I haven't had time to figure out if each kid who wants me to coach them has to pay that since I cannot request to be credentialed-rather the archer must). so theoretically, me a volunteer means 10 of my kids each have to pay another 20 bucks each just to have the same advantage that JDT or Jr USAT kids will have

    OR



    I can remain behind the athlete area meaning my students will be at a disadvantage (Assuming I actually know how to coach) over the kids who cough up the 20 dollars or have national team coaches helping them

    I'd love to know whose Idea this was, and if we THE MEMBERSHIP can vote on this proposal or on the person who dreamed this nonsense up
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  2. #2
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    To clarify, here is the specific personal coach policy.

    http://www2.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/...7D93FA04B.ashx

    ------
    USAA Personal Coach Policy

    INTERNATIONAL EVENTS
    This personal coach policy for international events is not intended to cover every situation, but outline a set of standards for how personal coaches are able to interact with athletes they coach who are traveling on behalf of USA Archery. Any situations not specifically covered here are subject to the decisions of the Head Coach or Head Team Leader when no Head Coach is assigned.

    ACCESS WITHOUT ACCREDITATION:

    Personal coaches may have access to athletes they coach at the practice area when the practice area is not under accreditation control.

    Personal coaches may communicate with athletes they coach at the competition site in any spectator area or at the barrier separating athletes and spectators.

    Personal coaches may communicate and socialize with archers they coach in any public areas including hotels, restaurants, shops, etc.

    ACCESS WITH ACCREDITATION:

    It is possible that a coach can receive accreditation for an international event if there are more accreditations allowed and available for USA Archery. The following policies outline guidelines within this scenario.

    Any additional coach accreditations MUST BE REQUESTED BY THE ARCHER not the coach.

    In order for the coach to be approved for the purchase of an accreditation, the following must ALL apply:

    A specific archer(s) must request the presence of the coach
    Additional accreditations must be available for that event
    Coach agrees to pay all fees associated with the accreditation as well as a $25 sanction fee from USA Archery
    Coach must have the support of the team Head Coach. The Head Coach is ultimately in charge of creating a positive and supporting atmosphere at all international events. If the presence of non-ITS coaches creates, or potentially creates any issues for other archers or at their own discretion feel like providing access to any personal coach would be a detriment to the team, the Head Coach has the ability to deny any such request.
    Coach must be a USA Archery member
    Coach must sign a release of liability as well as agree to the USA Archery Code of Conduct policies.
    Coach must conform to all World Archery uniform requirements, including purchasing team uniforms at the coach’s expense.

    Accredited coaches will only be allowed access in the practice area, not on the field of play without approval from Head Coach. In the event the Head Coach does provide access, it is understood that the personal coach will ONLY coach the individual who has requested their presence and will not engage in communication or coaching with any of the other athletes while on the field of play.

    ITS staff will represent the archer in all situations requiring an agent. Athletes can request a different staff by voicing their concerns with the head coach or team leader. The concerned athlete and the head coach and/or team leader will manage the final decision.

    ITS staff will be assigned to the coach box in all situations. All efforts will be made to make these assignments as soon as possible; i.e. at the first team meeting or when the schedule of matches is available. Athletes can request a different staff, archer or personal coach by voicing their concerns with the head coach or team leader.

    An archer may request another archer to be in the coach box. This is managed with the head coach and/or team leader. Any archer going into the box must be part of the official delegation and have significant experience and knowledge of responsibilities expected from the position.

    An archer may request their personal coach to stand in the coach box. Any personal coach standing in the box must have an accreditation and team uniform. This is managed with the head coach and/or team leader.

    ACCESS WHEN THERE IS ONLY A TEAM LEADER PROVIDED:

    All policies listed above are still in effect. All approvals will come from the Team Leader instead of the Head Coach.

    ACCESS WHEN THERE IS NO TEAM STAFF PROVIDED:

    All policies listed above are still in effect. All requests and purchases of accreditations must be completed prior to the trip with approval from USA Archery. No onsite accreditation purchases are allowed.

    USAA Personal Coach Policy
    NATIONAL EVENTS
    This personal coach policy is for national level events occurring within the United States. This includes the National Indoor, Field and Outdoor Target Championships. It also includes all USAT Qualifier events and any team trials. This policy is not intended to cover every situation, but outline a set of standards for how personal coaches are able to interact with athletes they coach who are shooting at national events. Any situations not specifically covered here are subject to the decisions of the tournament organizer, head official or the USA Archery event coordinator on site.

    ACCESS WITHOUT ACCREDITATION:
    Personal coaches may have access to athletes they coach at the practice area when the practice area is not under accreditation control.

    Personal coaches may communicate with athletes they coach at the competition site in any spectator area or at the barrier separating athletes and spectators.

    Personal coaches may communicate and socialize with archers they coach in any public areas surrounding the venue.

    ACCESS WITH ACCREDITATION:
    Personal coaches can receive a coach credential on-site at any of these events. The following policies outline guidelines within this scenario.

    In order for the coach to be approved for the purchase of an accreditation, the following must ALL apply:

    A specific archer(s) must request the presence of the coach (coaches cannot receive accreditation; this must be requested specifically by the archer.
    Coach agrees to pay all fees associated with the accreditation ($20/event).
    Coach understands and agrees that this is a privilege and can be revoked if the coach disrupts the event or other athletes in any way. The atmosphere of the event is managed by the event organizers, officials and USA Archery. If the presence of the requesting coach creates, or potentially creates any issues for other archers or at their own discretion feel like providing access to any personal coach would be a detriment to the event, they have the ability to deny any such request.
    Coach must be a USA Archery member
    Coach must sign a release of liability as well as agree to the USA Archery Code of Conduct policies.

    Accredited coaches will have access to the field of play area from the waiting line to the archer sitting area. It is understood that the personal coach will ONLY coach the individual(s) who has requested their presence and will not engage in communication or coaching with any of the other athletes while on the field of play.
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  3. #3
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    can you figure out if each kid has to pay 20 bucks for his coach or if the 20 Dollar fee allows one coach access to say all his club's archers?
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  4. #4
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    Here is the rule for Nationals, and it looks like it applies to ONLY ONE ARCHER, verbatim from USAA's web site, Denise Parker's blog.
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, is going on??

    USAA Personal Coach Policy
    NATIONAL EVENTS
    This personal coach policy is for national level events occurring within the United States. This includes the National Indoor, Field and Outdoor Target Championships. It also includes all USAT Qualifier events and any team trials. This policy is not intended to cover every situation, but outline a set of standards for how personal coaches are able to interact with athletes they coach who are shooting at national events. Any situations not specifically covered here are subject to the decisions of the tournament organizer, head official or the USA Archery event coordinator on site.

    ACCESS WITHOUT ACCREDITATION:
    Personal coaches may have access to athletes they coach at the practice area when the practice area is not under accreditation control.

    Personal coaches may communicate with athletes they coach at the competition site in any spectator area or at the barrier separating athletes and spectators.

    Personal coaches may communicate and socialize with archers they coach in any public areas surrounding the venue.

    ACCESS WITH ACCREDITATION:
    Personal coaches can receive a coach credential on-site at any of these events. The following policies outline guidelines within this scenario.

    In order for the coach to be approved for the purchase of an accreditation, the following must ALL apply:

    1. A specific archer(s) must request the presence of the coach (coaches cannot receive accreditation; this must be requested specifically by the archer.
    2. Coach agrees to pay all fees associated with the accreditation ($20/event).
    3. Coach understands and agrees that this is a privilege and can be revoked if the coach disrupts the event or other athletes in any way. The atmosphere of the event is managed by the event organizers, officials and USA Archery. If the presence of the requesting coach creates, or potentially creates any issues for other archers or at their own discretion feel like providing access to any personal coach would be a detriment to the event, they have the ability to deny any such request.
    4. Coach must be a USA Archery member
    5. Coach must sign a release of liability as well as agree to the USA Archery Code of Conduct policies.

    Accredited coaches will have access to the field of play area from the waiting line to the archer sitting area. It is understood that the personal coach will ONLY coach the individual(s) who has requested their presence and will not engage in communication or coaching with any of the other athletes while on the field of play.


    USAA, You do realize the hurt you are putting on your organization?
    JOAD is your "grassroots" if you don't water and nurture the seed, it will DIE. Watering requires coaching, equipment, practice and more coaching.
    What does this organization think?
    I don't know about everyone else who may look at this, but THERE ARE NINE DAYS UNTIL NATIONAL TARGET CHAMPIONSHIPS/EASTON JOAD NATIONALS, and NOW THEY ANNOUNCE THIS RULE JUST BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT? THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS, AND UNFAIR TOO ALL OF US (the clubs/coaches) WHO ARE BRINGING JOAD KIDS TO SHOOT IN HAMILTON.
    The price of admission is already steep enough, at $150.00. My family lives here in SW Ohio, so we don't need to pay for hotel room, food, etc., which is involved with a tournament.
    Many archers who shot our State JOAD event this weekend (June 16 & 17), ARE NOT COMING TO NATIONALS because of THE HIGH ENTRY FEE.

    It would be nice to know who "decided" on this new rule. I would have that person's office REVOKED. Period end of story.

    USAA, I understand this is an Olympic year, and you need to fund our team, BUT, if you do it by raising the prices so da*% high you are pricing yourself out of the market. You won't have a talent pool to draw from, because quite frankly, I know many people who have dropped their USAA memberships in favor of the NFAA.

    $20 per archer for their JOAD coach to coach them...REALLY? SERIOUSLY?

    OUTRAGED LIZARD
    Archery is about life, it is not about the you and me, it is about lessons, and practice, and perseverance, and shooting when you don't want to, or shooting when you can't hit the broad side of a barn!

    Half of winning an archery tournament is showing up, the other half is shooting well!

  5. #5
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    I'm still trying to figure this out.

    If I'm traveling with my JOAD club to Outdoor Nationals, if I read this correctly, the club archers and I have to:

    1) request me as their coach
    2) I have to pay the fee

    I'm mixed about it. And I can't wait to see what other clubs say about it.

    -Steve
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim C View Post
    can you figure out if each kid has to pay 20 bucks for his coach or if the 20 Dollar fee allows one coach access to say all his club's archers?
    It says the coach pays the fee.
    Archery is about life, it is not about the you and me, it is about lessons, and practice, and perseverance, and shooting when you don't want to, or shooting when you can't hit the broad side of a barn!

    Half of winning an archery tournament is showing up, the other half is shooting well!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastmaster View Post
    I'm still trying to figure this out.

    If I'm traveling with my JOAD club to Outdoor Nationals, if I read this correctly, the club archers and I have to:

    1) request me as their coach
    2) I have to pay the fee

    I'm mixed about it. And I can't wait to see what other clubs say about it.

    -Steve
    Steve that is what i gleaned too. I think they are trying to cater to the elite shooters. We have many great shooters in our club, but many CANNOT afford $150 for a tournament entry fee. We have 2 "Elite" shooters too, but to allow them to have an Elite coach, and NOT to allow all of our other kids shooting EJN, or me as an adult shooting this tournament, to have say Jim or Darrell coach me, WITHOUT paying to do so, is patently UNFAIR to me and our JOAD kids, and anyone else from our club who is shooting.
    Archery is about life, it is not about the you and me, it is about lessons, and practice, and perseverance, and shooting when you don't want to, or shooting when you can't hit the broad side of a barn!

    Half of winning an archery tournament is showing up, the other half is shooting well!

  8. #8
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    It seems yet another ploy to increase the stratification between the "chosen" few and the grass roots. I remember at Orlando 05 Lloyd Brown was told that he could be on the waiting line coaching his JR USAT kid while I could not even though my archer (who BTW Made JR USAT the next year partially as a result of how she did at that tournament) was competing against one of those Jr USAT kids. So I told Neil Foster I was going to file a protest because if I am treated differently than Lloyd that mean my ATHLETE Was being treated differently because she wouldn't have me at the waiting line while her competition did. Neil agreed and ALL COACHES were required to be behind the athlete seating area during competition accept during the team events where I and the other coaches were in the coaches' boxes. Neil agreed it was to make sure all the ATHLETES were treated equally


    As an attorney well versed in the relevant issues of fair play and fair sport suggest this is not treating the athletes equally. Why should volunteer coaches have to pay 20 bucks out of their pockets to help kids when our Membership dues and outrageously high entry fees pay for coaches coach kids competing against our athletes?
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  9. #9
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    Seems to me that USAA is becoming a little too much like our current govt. You can't legislate to control every possible behavior. Let organizers and officials have broad discretion as to what is acceptable, or not.

    From what I've seen, it is not a detriment to have all non shooters behind the designated areas for archers only. Coaching can be easily done from the spectator area. It's crowded enough with shooters as is.

  10. #10
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    Our club dues is right around the $120, because of the JOAD and ADULT and CAMP, GEE that's $30 short of the entry fee for nationals...THEN we have our FAMILY MEMBERSHIP in USAA for 3 years at what about $210. Just to put it out there for people to know, it AIN'T CHEAP TO BE A PART OF USAA, especially if you happen to be REALLY dedicated, as we (Coombes & Cincinnati Junior Olympians) are.
    We also have our LIFE MEMBERSHIPS in NFAA which, I cannot remember how much those cost because we got those SO LONG AGO!

    Back on topic though...our JOAD archers WILL BE TREATED UNFAIRLY, if we are not allowed to coach! I think we ought to file a protest right now, maybe a legal action about this little rule. Know any good attorneys???!! I do!

    BEWARE FAIRNESS IS DEMANDED FOR ALL ATHLETES!
    Archery is about life, it is not about the you and me, it is about lessons, and practice, and perseverance, and shooting when you don't want to, or shooting when you can't hit the broad side of a barn!

    Half of winning an archery tournament is showing up, the other half is shooting well!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwayarcherywi View Post
    Seems to me that USAA is becoming a little too much like our current govt. You can't legislate to control every possible behavior. Let organizers and officials have broad discretion as to what is acceptable, or not.

    From what I've seen, it is not a detriment to have all non shooters behind the designated areas for archers only. Coaching can be easily done from the spectator area. It's crowded enough with shooters as is.
    ALL coaches have to be treated the same because if they are not the ATHLETES are not being treated the same which violates all sorts of Rules and laws etc. and making volunteer coaches pay out of their pocket so their ATHLETES will be treated the same as those who are being coached by people that WE AS MEMBERS PAY with our dues and entry fees is really pretty outrageous in my opinion.
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  12. #12
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    as I was going through the entries for Our State JOAD and the Helwig-Pierson Memorial Tournament (I'd love to have Charlie and George's counsel on this issue!) I was rather amazed to see how many people that helped me when I started in Ohio FITA tournaments were at our tournament but who are no longer members of the "NAA" but rather NFAA. I won't mention names but there were several people who were pretty much the backbone of the Fita Archers of Ohio (the state affiliate to the NAA) when I started competing about 15 years ago who no longer are members.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwayarcherywi View Post
    Seems to me that USAA is becoming a little too much like our current govt. You can't legislate to control every possible behavior. Let organizers and officials have broad discretion as to what is acceptable, or not.

    From what I've seen, it is not a detriment to have all non shooters behind the designated areas for archers only. Coaching can be easily done from the spectator area. It's crowded enough with shooters as is.
    Gabe,
    Agreed!
    But the point is that if JDT, JrUSAT, and other elite archers are allowed to have their ELITE coach on the waiting line, THEN EVERY ARCHER SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEIR COACH ON THE WAITING LINE AS WELL, WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY TO COACH THEIR ARCHER, and that archer HAS to request their coach be on the waiting line with them, AND THEN TO HAVE TO PAY PER ARCHER? Don't you find that a tad outrageous? I do.
    If you, Gabe, have 20 JOADs shooting EJN, and they want YOU on the waiting line for them, then you'd have to pay $400? Is that not a bit much?
    Lizard
    Archery is about life, it is not about the you and me, it is about lessons, and practice, and perseverance, and shooting when you don't want to, or shooting when you can't hit the broad side of a barn!

    Half of winning an archery tournament is showing up, the other half is shooting well!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwayarcherywi View Post
    Seems to me that USAA is becoming a little too much like our current govt. You can't legislate to control every possible behavior. Let organizers and officials have broad discretion as to what is acceptable, or not.

    From what I've seen, it is not a detriment to have all non shooters behind the designated areas for archers only. Coaching can be easily done from the spectator area. It's crowded enough with shooters as is.
    sort of sounds like trickle down orders and authority to me Gabe
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  15. #15
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    Unbelievable. We have about 15 kids going. This is not going to play well.

  16. #16
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    The part that is more alarming is this - who does my son contact so I can coach him at National?

    I have asked Denise as to who I need to contact.

    Secondary:
    Will the LOC ensure that the people who did pay are properly credentialed?

    And, who enforces it?
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  17. #17
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    This is ridiculous! I would like to see USArchery get audited. I would like them to open their books and see where this money is going. Its definitely not going into their grassroots program, or into answering phone calls or emails. And to charge coaches who volunteer their time or archers who already paid and outrageous entry fee and extra 20 dollars just to have the same privilege of coaching as the "elite" shooters is complete CRAP! I will not support USArchery if they continue in this direction. This is just SAD!
    Go Big or Go Home....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizard View Post
    Gabe,
    Agreed!
    But the point is that if JDT, JrUSAT, and other elite archers are allowed to have their ELITE coach on the waiting line, THEN EVERY ARCHER SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEIR COACH ON THE WAITING LINE AS WELL, WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY TO COACH THEIR ARCHER, and that archer HAS to request their coach be on the waiting line with them, AND THEN TO HAVE TO PAY PER ARCHER? Don't you find that a tad outrageous? I do.
    If you, Gabe, have 20 JOADs shooting EJN, and they want YOU on the waiting line for them, then you'd have to pay $400? Is that not a bit much?
    Lizard
    I draw the line at $350. All kidding aside, the elites don't need coaches on the waiting line. At tournament time they all know exactly what they need to do. Coming back to the spectator area for a word with your coach is easy. We should be a bit more like tennis as it regards coaches.

  19. #19
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    Aslong as every coach is required to be in the spectator area I am ok with that. But things must be equal for all athletes. Will the elite archers be allowed to use steroids next year?
    Go Big or Go Home....

  20. #20
    As much as I hate to type this.....but I feel it is becoming the norm.....the average archer supports tournaments and I feel that NAA is gearing towards the elite archers. Their numbers do not support archery. This is not right to have to have a coach pay to help their student(s).


    Like JimC said "It seems yet another ploy to increase the stratification between the "chosen" few and the grass roots."

    It's a challenge to shoot a tournament yet alone jump thru all the hoops that are created for us.

    FWIW
    Bowgal

  21. #21
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    Utter nonsense. I will have 6 students there - 3 bowmen, 2 cubs and a cadet - and I will be wherever they need me, whenever they need me. This is JOAD for crying out loud. A few folks really need to get a grip on real life, I think. I'll enjoy seeing someone trying to figure out how to throw me out if one of my archers needs my help.

    This is nearly as intelligent as asking families to waste a complete day on a team round that counts for nothing.

    Jim and Tom, I think we need to chat. See you next week.

    Never thought I'd miss the old NAA... and the NFAA just looks better and better every year.

    And "we've" signed onto this for at least another 4 years.

    John
    Renegade Archer

  22. #22
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    I will be filing a grievance in writing tomorrow. This violates their bylaws in several ways that I have found. Something has to change!
    Go Big or Go Home....

  23. #23
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    I was around when the NRA (I am a life member btw since 1975 or so) was DECERTIFIED as the NGB for Shooting. I won't go into all the things that caused that move and whether that move actually made anything better but I can tell you that I see some similarities
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim C View Post
    I was around when the NRA (I am a life member btw since 1975 or so) was DECERTIFIED as the NGB for Shooting. I won't go into all the things that caused that move and whether that move actually made anything better but I can tell you that I see some similarities
    NFAA has always had their act together. Did I hear a motion?

    It's time.
    Renegade Archer

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by limbwalker View Post
    Utter nonsense. I will have 6 students there - 3 bowmen, 2 cubs and a cadet - and I will be wherever they need me, whenever they need me. This is JOAD for crying out loud. A few folks really need to get a grip on real life, I think. I'll enjoy seeing someone trying to figure out how to throw me out if one of my archers needs my help.

    This is nearly as intelligent as asking families to waste a complete day on a team round that counts for nothing.

    Jim and Tom, I think we need to chat. See you next week.

    Never thought I'd miss the old NAA... and the NFAA just looks better and better every year.

    And "we've" signed onto this for at least another 4 years.

    John
    You may have created a more sensible rule.

    I propose this in place of all those other rules for JOAD archers.

    Because limited space is available behind the waiting line, and to minimize distraction to the athletes, parents and personal coaches must remain in the spectator area unless their immediate assistance is needed or requested by one of the athletes. No coach or parent may occupy a chair in the athletes's area except when a seated posture is advantageous for the repair or adjustment of an athletes's primary equipment.

    I used the term "needed or requested" in my proposed regulation to allow room for good judgement and the fact that a kid may not know when help is needed. For instance, if the kid is showing symptoms of heat stress, the parent or coach might need to monitor their well-being. Or if a kid is feeling overwhelmed they might need a bit of emotional support.

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