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Thread: Lets start a new 3D Tour

  1. Lets start a new 3D Tour

    So with all the hoopla going on lets start a new hypothetical tour. Ill start with what I have in mind.

    First would be Number of events-8 with a championship so that makes 9
    4 events would be in the east and south- PA, SC, FL, TN
    4 events would be in the west and Midwest-IN, MO, WI, TX
    The Championship would be held in IL



    You only need 4 events to qualify for the shooter of the year but you can shoot up to 6 events for a shooter of the year and drop your lowest two scores.
    The season would start in Late January then would continue on thru august and the championships would be the first week of September.(hopefully cooler)

    Classes:
    Open Pro-50 yards
    Womens Pro- 50 yards
    Senior Pro -50 yards
    Semi Pro -50 yards
    Open a-45 yards
    Open b-40 yards
    Senior Open-50 yards
    known-50yards
    womens open- 45 yards
    a few youth classes
    and a fingers class

    Speed limit of 300fps
    McKenzie Targets
    ASA Scoring, no 14 in any class
    Shoot downs in semi pro and higher
    Each Group in the pro class will have a electronic scoring device to provide live up to date scoring for the spectators.

    Pro shooters would have to qualify to shoot pro.
    Shotgun Starts
    two day event 40 targets 20/20

    Entry Fees
    Pro Mens -300
    Pro Womens - 150
    Senior Pro - 150
    Semi-100
    all others 50

    Payout-
    Mens Pro-$10,000 per event with $100,000 Championship
    All other classes would pay top 5 shooters.

    I will need a lot of sponsers to be on board to help with the payout.
    Each event will have a title sponsor that will be responsible for the Mens Pro Payout.

    So this is what i have in mind, pretty crude but you get the idea. lets hear what you would do or how you would change my idea to better it. In my opinion we have to make it more glamours for the Pros and the Spectators. Thats how we get TV Coverage.


  2. #2
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    i like it...

  3. #3
    Manditory Equipment check at range gate. No speed limit. Have the pros be more visible at the event. No offsite range just for pros. Just a few ideas.

  4. #4
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    I'll pass.

    Seems everyone hypes this big money thing. $10,000 per event, $100,000 for Championship? Where's money going to come from? I'd think one of the existing organizations would have jumped on it if it was there to be had.....
    Pearson MarXman, Limb Driver Pro, Muddy Virtue HT3s, Bohning vanes, Sure Loc Challenger,
    Super Ball Peep, Stanislawski MagMicro Trio, Deuce, Blackjack and TRU Ball ST360, 30" Stinger
    with Stinger back bars.

  5. Sponsors is where the big money comes from. How do you think golf got so big. There has to be something to draw people to these events. Money is a great motivator. I think it should have 20 3d targets per day with a chronograph set up at target 11 which would just be a bale and not count for score. There needs to be something more than we already have, change is inevitable.

  6. #6
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    All events to be televised. Not only covering pros. All classes would get a fair share of airtime of course with 9/16 of the televised coverage going to the pros. They help boost the ratings of course. Get all major bow brands involved in some aspect. All other accessories to have a chance at commercial spots on each televised event.

    Put the 14 in play for the shoot offs at all the events. Have a short segment of each televised event go to a 75+ yd unknown yardage, single shot each round sudden death shoot out that pays $2000.00 to the winner. Have someone like CBE for example to sponsor this.

    Add a 1-2 minute shooters tips by the pros segment and have a different pro do their own every competition.

    We want the sport to grow right?? Imagine what this would do for 3D!!


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  7. #7
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    it would need a "novice" class to attract the masses who's entry fees would be funding the payouts. e.g. 30 yards

    mandatory advancement to prevent guys from sandbagging, particularly a "novice" class

    like someone mentioned, make the pro event more spectator friendly, kinda like golf. kids need to see these guys shoot.

    scoring: some guys like the ibo format of showing up as work allows, some like the ability to shoot with a friend or two, others prefer the random ASA assigned times. is it possbile to accomodate both with only those with randomly drawn groups having the ability to win?

    consider why people attend: some go for the sheer competition, others for the pure enjoyment and to get away, most are in between

    the newer ibo idea of having to turn in one score card at the tent and one in the vendor area is a good idea since it forces traffic to the vendors.

    why choose indiana with the population of 4.5M over Ohio with a population of 11.5M? you do want attendance, right?

    create an environment where people can shoot 2 classes. for instance, i would love to shoot a compound class, then grab some buddies and head out with recurves, even it it was only for 20 targets. Yes, we would suk up the trad course, but it would be a blast. We make the trips for the enjoyment as well as the competition. plus, the org could make more money. The IBO one-class-and-done gets old... a 2-3 day total time commitment for 6 hours of archery.

    add a "common sense" rule based on competitive advantage and intent. some of the DQ things I have heard at ibo defy common sense. case in point rumor... In Bedford, there was a AHC shooter with 2 brand new clueless HC shooters out having fun. One of the HC guys dropped and broke his binos. The AHC guy took 2-3 steps to the HC guy and loaned him his. some other shooter watched the guy step forward, reported it, and the AHC guy was DQ'ed. Yes, against the rules, but common sense says the 2-3 steps offer no competitive advantage as anyone can see that is 2-3 yards. Intent was to help a fellow archer learn and love the sport. If the story is false, my bad, but it shows the lack of respect for the shooters. The DQ'ed guy probably spent a bunch of money and time to get to the shoot and blasted for something really stupid.
    Shooting Hoyt now, dabbling with Bowtech...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barn Burner View Post
    So with all the hoopla going on lets start a new hypothetical tour. Ill start with what I have in mind.

    First would be Number of events-8 with a championship so that makes 9
    4 events would be in the east and south- PA, SC, FL, TN
    4 events would be in the west and Midwest-IN, MO, WI, TX
    The Championship would be held in IL

    You only need 4 events to qualify for the shooter of the year but you can shoot up to 6 events for a shooter of the year and drop your lowest two scores.
    The season would start in Late January then would continue on thru august and the championships would be the first week of September.(hopefully cooler)

    Classes:
    Open Pro-50 yards
    Womens Pro- 50 yards
    Senior Pro -50 yards
    Semi Pro -50 yards
    Open a-45 yards
    Open b-40 yards
    Senior Open-50 yards
    known-50yards
    womens open- 45 yards
    a few youth classes
    and a fingers class

    Speed limit of 300fps
    McKenzie Targets
    ASA Scoring, no 14 in any class
    Shoot downs in semi pro and higher
    Each Group in the pro class will have a electronic scoring device to provide live up to date scoring for the spectators.

    Pro shooters would have to qualify to shoot pro.
    Shotgun Starts
    two day event 40 targets 20/20

    Entry Fees
    Pro Mens -300
    Pro Womens - 150
    Senior Pro - 150
    Semi-100
    all others 50

    Payout-
    Mens Pro-$10,000 per event with $100,000 Championship
    All other classes would pay top 5 shooters.

    I will need a lot of sponsers to be on board to help with the payout.
    Each event will have a title sponsor that will be responsible for the Mens Pro Payout.

    So this is what i have in mind, pretty crude but you get the idea. lets hear what you would do or how you would change my idea to better it. In my opinion we have to make it more glamours for the Pros and the Spectators. Thats how we get TV Coverage.
    i like this setup, but i would like to see a mixture. on sat you shoot a field type coarse, known yards out to 70 - 80 yards and on sunday shoot a 3D range as listed above. this could be at just one event not all of them, have one on the east and one on the west for the shooters to shoot something different... im all for the higher pay outs but i dont see that happening...
    2008 PRO ELITE.... INDOORS..2010 ALPHA BURNER.... HUNTING..2012 ELITE ANSWER.... ALL PURPOSE..

  9. #9
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    another thought... during the first year, start with fewer events, but place them near highly populated areas to make it easier and to drive attendance. this gives the chance to work out kinks before going all in.

    the above post noting the addition of a field event sounds really intriguing.

    you are going to have a problem raising the capital for the huge payouts in the first year. the well funded sponsors are more prone to have you prove yourself first before committing to anything. the smaller companies may jump on board with a smaller commitment, but you could get more of them. i would be prone to have more companies with smaller investments than rely on a few big ones for safety. if the big guy pulls the sponsorship, it can be catastrophic.

    whatever you do, you must promote and keep powder dry for marketing. word of mouth only goes so far. create a fantastic website and drive people to it. immediately start building a list of emails and use it to promote the events, the shooters, and the sponsors. email campaigns are an art form unto themselves, and if done correctly, reap tremendous results.
    Shooting Hoyt now, dabbling with Bowtech...

  10. #10
    thios is a great idea. I would love to see this happen.

  11. #11
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    count me in

  12. #12
    You will need $250,000.00 min to get the ball rolling

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babyk View Post
    You will need $250,000.00 min to get the ball rolling
    curious... whats the math on that?
    Shooting Hoyt now, dabbling with Bowtech...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Babyk View Post
    You will need $250,000.00 min to get the ball rolling


    and that won't roll it far! It's going to take sweat and sacrifice from a lot of people.......IMO, thats harder to get than money.

    I've said my peice about IBO but I hope all this excitement and call for change doesn't result in short-sighted decisions being made. I dont agree with everything they do or often the way they do things but I have a lot of respect for anyone shouldering the burden associated with running one of these organizations. I've seen some posts referring to them as "lazy".........and that calls me to question if the accusers have a real understanding of what they're getting in to.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorelli View Post

    I've said my peice about IBO but I hope all this excitement and call for change doesn't result in short-sighted decisions being made. I dont agree with everything they do or often the way they do things but I have a lot of respect for anyone shouldering the burden associated with running one of these organizations. I've seen some posts referring to them as "lazy".........and that calls me to question if the accusers have a real understanding of what they're getting in to.
    interesting. running any organization is not for the weak-hearted. i wouldnt call ibo lazy per se, just out of touch and seem to focus on odd things and resting on their laurels. it could be much better if they were willing to change. i can see the need for another venue, and if it gains traction, could cause ibo some problems. heck, even if asa moved further north and gained a foothold, it would cause them serious issues. afterall, ibo moved south and didnt seem to even dent asa. competition is good.
    Shooting Hoyt now, dabbling with Bowtech...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barn Burner View Post
    Sponsors is where the big money comes from. How do you think golf got so big. There has to be something to draw people to these events. Money is a great motivator. I think it should have 20 3d targets per day with a chronograph set up at target 11 which would just be a bale and not count for score. There needs to be something more than we already have, change is inevitable.
    Golf got big for 3 main reasons:
    1. The advent of color TV and prolifieration of broadcast satellites. Prior to the satellites golf was pre-recorded in black and white and there was little, if any, coverage of any live events. Color TV gave the home viewers a better viewing experience, which led to higher ratings.
    2. Business executives conducting business on golf courses. This led to high dollar sponsorships of individual tournaments. High dollar sponsorship led to more viewers watching because of the higher payouts.
    3. The creation of more muny courses across the country. The creation of more munies brought golf to the working Joes. Golf was no longer the elite sport only available to the country clubbers with tons of cash.
    Quote Originally Posted by Babyk View Post
    You will need $250,000.00 min to get the ball rolling
    250K will not even get the ball rolling. It will cost a minimum of double that just for the production costs and air time on TV. Forget about the payouts in this proposed hypothetical, that money is blown just for the "TV coverage." Heck, the electronic scoring isn't cheap.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by reylamb View Post
    250K will not even get the ball rolling. It will cost a minimum of double that just for the production costs and air time on TV. Forget about the payouts in this proposed hypothetical, that money is blown just for the "TV coverage." Heck, the electronic scoring isn't cheap.
    The other thing golf and other sports do is personalize the players, their talents, and their hardships.it would be suicidal to start with those grandiose plans. Get the thing going and successful, and try to create a venue with TV in mind. once past the hiccup stage and established and hopefully profitable, analyze the benefit and viability of the TV avenue. There are enough hunting shows now, this may be a nice change if done correctly and professionally. The easiest path would be to team up with established and respected TV personalities.
    Shooting Hoyt now, dabbling with Bowtech...

  18. OH yeah I agree Bucks we would have to get the ball rolling before any major TV spots. We would have to crawl before we run. If done right I believe that a new organization could really take over the sport. But it would have to have the backing of all the major players and manufactures.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barn Burner View Post
    OH yeah I agree Bucks we would have to get the ball rolling before any major TV spots. We would have to crawl before we run. If done right I believe that a new organization could really take over the sport. But it would have to have the backing of all the major players and manufactures.
    But if you are depending on the backing of the major players and mfg you are where you are today. Golf is successful because their big purses/sponsorships come from sources outside of Golf. There is no Taylor Made open, Calloway Championship, Titelist Tour, etc. They, the PGA Tour and USGA, get very little from the actual MFG. The TV networks get advertising money from tyhe golf mfg.

    To have a truely successful archery organization that would eventually have any hope of competing with Bowling (competing with Golf is an unrealistic pipe dream) you need to rely on outside sponsors, not the Archery MFG.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barn Burner View Post
    Sponsors is where the big money comes from. How do you think golf got so big. There has to be something to draw people to these events. Money is a great motivator. I think it should have 20 3d targets per day with a chronograph set up at target 11 which would just be a bale and not count for score. There needs to be something more than we already have, change is inevitable.
    Where will the money coming from? Archery is supported by archery manufacturers. Right now these sponsors are in the present archery organizations' camps. Commitments are probably established for a period of time. Beings archery organizations are already established all a sponsor has to say is, "change this." Betcha Hoyt has already said something. Bet they wanted Danny up there to be seen......

    This BS of using golf is really old. We don't have Palmolive, Proctor & Gambles, or Bing Crosby. < Remember these?

    I would say right now Ken Watkins is looking to resolve more than just the award ceremonies. Beings Ken isn't stupid by a long shot.......
    Pearson MarXman, Limb Driver Pro, Muddy Virtue HT3s, Bohning vanes, Sure Loc Challenger,
    Super Ball Peep, Stanislawski MagMicro Trio, Deuce, Blackjack and TRU Ball ST360, 30" Stinger
    with Stinger back bars.

  21. #21
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    A lot of great ideas here!

  22. #22
    at a hunter class with no speed limit and all accessories must be hunting not target related.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk 2

  23. #23
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    You said there would be shoots in the west? which states? there are no western states in the original format.But other than that I think its a great Idea.We would have to give it a cool name like the All American 3D Tour.

  24. #24
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    Not saying its impossible but would have to be difficult if neither the ASA or IBO can get major brand sponsors (outside archery) think Buick or Cadillac, an up start orginazation would have to have deep pockets with very few sponsors in the early years.

    I may catch h#ll over this but I'm not sure that the IBO doesn't listen to its shooters. There may be 50 guys on here that say the way they run it is terrible, but there may be 500 that dont get on AT that love to shoot with a buddy and shoot 40 on Friday and get back to work or family. I do not know enough about the behind the scenes things that go on to pass judgement either way, I just think there are two sides to every story.

    I shot Bedford and Erie all on Friday because thats the only option I had. If I would have had to shoot on Sat. or Sun. I would've had to stay home.

    I do believe that they have to listen to what their pros are saying and act on that, but it wont be hard to gather them up and hash it out if they choose to.
    2010 Destroyer 28" @71lb 370gr Easton Flatline-312fps, LimbDriver Pro, Sword Twilight Hunter, Alpine Quiver, Carter Simple1 and my own Strings.
    2005 Mathews Switchback 70lb LimbDriver Pro, Toxonics Micro 5 pin, Doinker Dish, and my own Strings
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  25. #25
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    I have been working hard on a couple buddies of mine to get this started. They have the TV show Wired Outdoors. You can see them on Wiredoutdoors.com. They are young ,ambitious and have been putting on a great shoot called Camo Cares. This will be the 3rd year of Camo Cares and the shoot is sold out every year at 270 shooters range compacity. They raised $40,000 last year for the Hunt of a lifetime and you can watch some of there hunts taking kids with cancer on there dream hunts. I keep telling Kyle and Jason they have what it takes to pull this off. They had 30 guys last night show up to help set up the ranges for Camo Cares this saturday. These are the 2 guys that could do it, they have the contacts,origanized and they are 2 great guys. If I could get them talked into it, you would see a 3d circuit like no other. There is a 3' wide weed wacked trail to all 60 targets at Camo Cares. You get a folder with range assignments and maps of the course when you check in. Everything at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club will be in tip top shape when they are done on Friday night. They put a great event on like none other I have ever been to. Auction in the afternoon on saturday with $1,000's of dollars worths of prizes and 3 bands in the evning. Even though the shoot is sold out, you can come after lunch and get in on the Chineese auction and stay for the Bands. Camp out and shoot the same course on Sunday. Its our regular monthly shoot but we are using the Camo Cares open range. Come check it out, meet Jason and Kyle and everyone put a plug in there ear. We need to get these boys on board and you will see a great 3D series up North. This is the best chance I see at pulling it off. These guys are already half way there with 3 years experience putting on a big shoot. Check out there website at wiredoutdoors.com.
    Watch the video on demand Douglas Fickels Moose hunt and the Billy Myers Elk hunt and you will see the Camo Cares archery shoot along with Billys and Douglas's hunts. It's worth the time to watch these both and you will agree that these are the 2 guys to get this done.
    I thought a Wiredoutdoors/Cabela's Archery Series was a good start or a Wiredoutdoors/McKenzie,Gander Mountain,Rinehart or any of the big boy would make a very good sponser series. I have been around this game for a very long time and these guys have what it takes.
    --PSE Supra Me--Tru-Ball SP,Scott Exxus---Bohning Archery X2 vanes & nocks--60X Strings-Black Eagle Magnums

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