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Thread: How to tune in bow, Internet edition

  1. #1
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    How to tune in bow, Internet edition

    Guys I've been practicing archery for 5 years now. I stopped because I was finishing my residency and developed a shoulder injury.

    Now I'm back and I'm trying to teach my nephew and some kids here the magic of archery.



    I've had to learn how to tune a bow by myself, visiting forums, buying videos, YouTube, etc.

    It's been years of reading and watching carefully in many places... It's also been hard because living outside the US and trying to learn without a bow shop in the next 6 countries is kind of hard.

    Now, what videos are new to learn bow tuning? I have Leroys (I'm not sure that's his name), and those really helped me out when I started.

    Any recommendations? New videos?

    As I guess all of you are I'm pretty comfortable adjusting single cams, and I'm trying to learn the smallest details of binary cams (I own a 2008 bowtech commander).

    Any books now available? Thanks.

    Dan from Costa Rica

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    Target Bow: Bowtech Commander 2008


  2. #2
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    I don't believe you can find anything more complete than "THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF ARCHERY" right here on A.T.

    go to the general bowhunting section its the second one down.
    A Redneck lost in a yuppie town

  3. #3
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    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=626255

    This should help you with your Bowtech

  4. #4
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    I forgot to mention nut & Restorative bolts help... His posts are great and the compilation of his knowledge should be printed as a book.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    Target Bow: Bowtech Commander 2008

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuralgia View Post
    I forgot to mention nut & Restorative bolts help... His posts are great and the compilation of his knowledge should be printed as a book.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    Hello Neuralgia...

    I have my new KITCHEN SINK tuning method....

    where everything, including the "kitchen sink" will be checked, will be adjusted, fine tuned, if needed.

    Start to finish, just follow the steps in order.


    The KITCHEN SINK METHOD...

    Slightly re-worded.

    STEP by STEP Procedure to...

    TUNE SIGHT PINS WINDAGE
    and
    ARROW REST CENTERSHOT
    and
    SIDEWAYS NOCK TRAVEL ON THE BOWSTRING
    and
    BOW DL SETTING.....

    THE "KITCHEN SINK" METHOD.



    I have a combo method that checks:

    a) draw length setting on the bow
    b) arrow rest centershot position
    c) sight pins windage position
    d) top cam/top axle levelling (fix/check sideways nock travel).


    STEP 1:

    So,
    hang a spool of string or any string with a weight on the end,
    in front of a target.

    Step back 5 feet.
    Fire a fletched arrow at the string.
    Tweak the sight pins windage a skosh left...a skosh right,
    until the fletched arrow TOUCHES or even SPLITS the string material.

    You should get this result.






    Then,
    we goto the next stage.

    Step back 5 feet,
    and try again with a bareshaft (arrow with no vanes).

    You should get this result.






    If you are a RIGHT HANDED shooter
    and
    the bareshaft misses to the RIGHT of the string...


    STEP 2:

    Press your bow
    and shorten the LEFT SIDE buss cable leg say 1 complete twist
    and lengthen the RIGHT SIDE buss cable leg say 1 complete twist
    and fire a bareshaft again at the hanging string in front of the target...

    the bareshaft point of impact should MOVE CLOSER TO THE STRING...

    repeat the shortening of the LEFT SIDE buss cable leg with another complete twist (ADD)
    and
    repeat the lengthening of the RIGHT SIDE buss cable leg with another complete twist (REMOVE)

    STEP 3:

    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT DOES NOT MOVE CLOSER TO THE STRING...
    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT DOES NOT CHANGE...
    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT STAYS OFF TO THE RIGHT...

    THEN WE HAVE A DRAW LENGTH PROBLEM....ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION
    cuz your elbow is too far back
    cuz your elbow is behind your head
    instead of DIRECTLY behind the arrow...in line behind the arrow

    so,
    when the elbow is BEHIND YOUR HEAD,
    your release forearm is pointed OFF TO THE RIGHT,
    and
    your release forearm pulls the bowstring sideways (FAMOUS LEFT PAPER TEAR for right handed shooters)
    and
    when we have a nock left paper tear,
    cuz the bowstring is pulled sideways to the LEFT,
    cuz your forearm is pointed off to the right,
    then...

    the bareshaft goes whereever your forearm is pointed
    and the bareshaft misses sideways to the RIGHT of the string.


    So if STEP 2 (buss cable leg tuning) has ZERO EFFECT,
    we must goto

    STEP 4.

    SHORTEN the bow DL setting.

    Now,
    you might need to shorten the bow DL setting a complete 1/2 inch (new module).

    Now,
    you might need to shorten the bow DL setting less than a complete module replacement...

    maybe you need to shorten the bow DL setting only 1/8th inch....maybe only 1/4-inch.

    HOW do you shorten a bow DL setting in-between module sizes?...less than 1/2-inch?

    FIND the bottom of the buss cable (cable with 3 end loops) and REMOVE twists to INCREASE ATA
    and the bow DL will shorten. As you continue to UNTWIST the buss cable, the ATA continues to grow
    and the bow DL will continue to shorten.

    Keep tweaking the buss cable LONGER, until the bareshaft hits the string, like this...






    So,
    stay at 5 feet
    and fire fletched arrows at the string
    and
    fire bare shaft arrows at the string
    until both fletched and bareshaft hit the string.


    When firing fletched arrows at the string (tweak the sight pins windage)...to adjust
    when firing bareshafts at the string...work the buss cable (bottom of the buss cable to make LARGE adjustments for point of impact....missing RIGHT by inches)
    when firing bareshafts at the string...work the buss cable legs (shorten left side leg when missing right of the string by tiny amounts IF YOU ARE a RH shooter).


    Soon,
    your fletched arrows will be touching the string.

    Soon,
    your bareshafts will also touch the string.

    STEP 5

    The final half of MODIFIED FRENCH TUNING.


    Goto any CONVENIENT longer distance...anything longer than 5 feet.
    Might be 10 feet.
    Might be 19 feet.
    Might be 14 yards.
    Might be 20 yards.
    Might be 60 yards.

    Of course the LONGER the better,
    but even 19 feet is better than nothing.


    Fire fletched arrow groups at a bullseye.
    ONLY ADJUST THE ARROW REST, when shooting the convenient LONG RANGE distance.
    The goal is to get the arrow group CENTERED around the bullseye.

    ARROW GROUP missing LEFT of the bullseye? MOVE arrow rest slightly right.
    ARROW GROUP missing RIGHT of the bullseye? MOVE arrow rest slightly left....like driving a car.

    TWEAK THE ARROW REST to get the arrow group CENTERED around the LONG DISTANCE bullseye.
    Whatever convenient LONG DISTANCE is available to you.

    Then,

    STEP 6:

    Repeat shooting the fletched arrow at the string at 5 FEET.
    We want to touch or SPLIT the string.

    Might need to MICRO ADJUSt the sight pins windage...this is a fine tuning adjustment.
    SPLIT the string fibers at 5 feet. BE PICKY. EACH adjustment we make, we get a tiny bit CLOSER to perfect.


    REPEAT STEP 5

    LONG RANGE arrow groups at a bullseye.
    MICRO adjust the arrow rest to get the arrow group perfectly CENTERED around your bullseye.

    REPEAT STEP 6 again.
    REPEAT STEP 5 again.

    REPEAT STEP 6 again.
    REPEAT STEP 5 again.

    REPEAT STEP 6 again.
    REPEAT STEP 5 again.

    You get the idea.

    EACH cycle of step 6, then step 5...

    maybe the first cycle,
    we adjust the sight pins...1/8th-inch
    we adjust the arrow rest...1/8th-inch...

    and then,
    maybe the second cycle,
    we adjust the sight pins...1/16th-inch
    we adjust the arrow rest...1/16th-inch...

    and then,
    maybe the third cycle,
    we adjust the sight pins...1/32nd-inch
    we adjust the arrow rest...1/32nd-inch...

    and then,
    maybe the 4th cycle,
    we adjust the sight pins...1/64th-inch
    we adjust the arrow rest...1/64th-inch...

    you get the idea.

    You decide how many cycles you want to try.

    EACH cycle is a smaller and smaller adjustment.

    You decide how TIGHT you want your groups.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  6. #6
    After you complete the "KITCHEN SINK" tuning method...

    then,
    the final step is CREEP TUNING.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  7. #7
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    good info here

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARASR View Post
    I don't believe you can find anything more complete than "THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF ARCHERY" right here on A.T.

    go to the general bowhunting section its the second one down.
    You know that's right!!!

  9. #9
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    Tag again. Man I need to get an ink cartridge! Lol

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentown View Post
    Tag again. Man I need to get an ink cartridge! Lol

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
    Awesome post and reply from nuts&bolts.

    I need to get a printer

  11. #11
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    Hey nuts thanks for all the info.

    You have no clue how much you have helped archers like me, that have to learn empirically since there is almost no one to learn from here (Costa Rica).

    Any advice on cam tuning on bowtech binaries?

    When is the book coming out?

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    Target Bow: Bowtech Commander 2008

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    After you complete the "KITCHEN SINK" tuning method...

    then,
    the final step is CREEP TUNING.
    Can we get an explanation on creep tuning?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuralgia View Post
    Hey nuts thanks for all the info.

    You have no clue how much you have helped archers like me, that have to learn empirically since there is almost no one to learn from here (Costa Rica).

    Any advice on cam tuning on bowtech binaries?

    When is the book coming out?

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
    With any binary cam system....

    gotta make sure that both cables are EXACTLY the same tension....same length not good enough.

    I like to put both cables on a stretching device,
    and then,
    I will PLUCK the top cable on the stretcher
    and LISTEN to the tone.

    Then,
    since both cables are on the stretcher at the same time...
    then,
    I PLUCK the bottom cable on the stretcher.

    PLUCK UPPER cable.
    PLUCK LOWER cable.

    Confirm that both cables are giving off the SAME EXACT tone.

    If one cable SOUNDS like a lower note..
    then,
    I loosen the stretching device,
    and add a half twist to the lower sounding cable...

    and then bring up the tension nice and tight,
    and
    then PLUCK the upper cable
    and
    then PLUCK the lower cable.

    LISTEN to the TONE.

    Then,
    when you have the SAME EXACT TONE...
    then,
    both cables are the SAME EXACT tension.

    Binary cam bows are extemely sensitive to cable pressure.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bowtechfanatic1 View Post
    Can we get an explanation on creep tuning?
    The KITCHEN SINK tuning method makes sure that we have the SIDEWAYS nock travel dialed in perfectly.

    So,
    if the draw length is near perfect...for YOUR body parts,
    then,
    the yoke cable leg tuning (add or remove twists on the cable end loops on the TOP AXLE)
    will get bareshafts and fletched arrows hitting the string at 5 FEET.

    When this happens,
    broadhead tuning should be very easy.


    IF the draw length is too long, even by 1/4-inch,
    then NO AMOUNT of yoke cable leg tuning is going to get bareshafts and fletched
    hitting the string just 5 FEET away.

    IF the draw length is too long, even by 1/4-inch,
    then, this causes the elbow on your release side to be too far behind your head,
    and then,
    your forearm (release side) reaction after you release the arrow,
    causes you to PULL THE BOWSTRING sideways...
    and
    this is usually the reason MOST RIGHT handed shooter
    complain about the FAMOUS LEFT PAPER TEAR.


    So,
    when you are finishing tweaking draw length,
    when you are finished with yoke cable tuning (end loops on the top axle)..

    then,
    you have FINISHED the KITCHEN SINK tuning method,
    and
    bareshafts and fletched should be hitting the string, just 5 FEET away.


    Well,
    what happens if the bareshaft is HITTING HIGHER than the fletched arrows????

    This is where we proceed to CREEP TUNING.


    CREEP TUNING is where we fix VERTICAL misses.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  15. #15

    Creep tuning

    20 yard target

    Horizontal strip of duct tape.

    Aim at the top edge.

    FIRE 3 arrows at the top edge of the duct tape,
    with NORMAL PULLING pressure.

    Then,
    fire 3 more arrows at the top edge of the duct tape,
    but this time,
    with HARDER THAN NORMAL pulling pressure.




    3 ARROWS hit lower.
    3 ARROW hit higher.


    This means that the cam starting rotation position
    is NOT in the sweet spot.

    So,
    we have to FIND the sweet spot for cam starting rotation position.

    We have to FIND the sweet spot for cam starting rotation position,
    that provides up with LEVEL nock travel....

    which is fancy lingo for
    finding the cam starting rotation position,
    that provides us with the FLATTEST arrow groups,
    with the MINIMUM amount of vertical misses.


    So,
    we have TWO CHOICES.

    We can make the cam rotate TOWARDS the riser,
    we can make the cam rotate AWAY from the riser....

    we can make the cam rotate in the direction when we DRAW THE BOW to full draw...
    or
    we can make the cam rotate in the direction when we LET DOWN THE BOW.


    ONE of these directions (ADD or REMOVE a half twist) will make the 6 ARROWS
    hit at the same height above the top edge of the duct tape.


    SINGLE CAM BOW...

    find the cable with 3 end loops
    (sometimes called the Buss cable)
    (sometimes called the Yoke cable)
    (sometimes called the "Y" cable)

    find the bottom end loop and try ADDING a half twist or a complete twist
    and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

    If things got better,
    then,
    ADDING half twists is what you want to do,
    until you get all 6 ARROWS hitting at the same height above the top edge of the duct tape.

    If things got worse,
    then,
    go the other direction,
    REMOVING half twists,
    until you get all 6 ARROWS hitting at the same height above the top edge of the duct tape.



    HYBRID CAM BOW....

    this is a bow with a 3 piece rigging system.

    So,
    you have a buss cable (cable with 3 end loops)
    you have a control cable (cable with 2 end loops)
    you have a bowstring.


    So,
    you have a choice, when CREEP TUNING a hybrid cam bow.

    You COULD do the same procedure as the single cam bow,
    and only adjust the BUSS CABLE.


    I prefer to use the CONTROL CABLE for creep tuning,
    cuz
    this way, there is LESS effect on the draw length..a much smaller change in draw length,
    when CREEP TUNING a hybrid cam bow,
    when ADDING or REMOVING the half twist adjustments
    to try and get all 6 arrows to HIT at the SAME HEIGHT above the top edge of the duct tape.

    TWEAKING the control cable is a DIRECT ADJUSTMENT to the top cam rotation positionon a hybrid cam system,
    cuz the TOP END of the control cable is attached to a peg on the TOP CAM.


    TWEAKING the buss cable is an IN-DIRECT ADJUSTMENT to the top cam rotation position on a hybrid cam system,
    cuz the buss cable only CHANGES the ATA...which in-directly causes the top cam to rotate one way or the other way.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  16. #16
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    Great stuff!
    Blazin' Pond & Oak Savanna - Fowl and Whitetails
    Glacial lakes area, Minnesota

  17. #17
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    You mention Single and Hybrids... sorry for the stupid question but, Binarys?
    Target Bow: Bowtech Commander 2008

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuralgia View Post
    You mention Single and Hybrids... sorry for the stupid question but, Binarys?
    OLD STYLE Binarys have no yoke cable.

    The new style Bowtechs, with the "overdrive system" does have a yoke cable.

    So,
    binary cam bows with NO yoke cable...

    obviously, we cannot adjust the tilt angle of the top axle.
    So, sideways nock travel is NOT easily adjustable for a bow with no yoke cable.

    So,
    if you are a right handed shooter,
    if you shoot a binary cam bow with NO YOKE cables,
    if your broadheads are hitting right of your field points...

    ONLY adjustment is to shorten the draw length,
    to get the release side forearm MORE in line directly behind the arrow
    to reduce SIDEWAYS pull on the bowstring down to zero.

    If you are a right handed shooter,
    if your broadheads are missing to the right of your field points..
    then,
    a combination of moving your arrow rest a SKOSH to the right...
    a combination of shortening the d-loop length
    a combination of taking twists out of the two cables to increase ATA, which reduces brace height


    all of these three things will help you dial in your broadhead point of impact with your field points.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  19. #19
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    It cost me an ink cartridge everytime Nut&bolts writes.

    Very grateful for your advice and tips. Thank you
    Role Models- If you need one, look in the mirror. If you don't like that one, change it. If your kids need one, tell them to look at you. If you don't like their roll model, then you have a problem.
    To my sons: I find it amazing that as I try to teach you how to be a man, you are doing the same for me.

  20. #20
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    How to tune in bow, Internet edition

    Tagged for later

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    With any binary cam system....

    gotta make sure that both cables are EXACTLY the same tension....same length not good enough.

    I like to put both cables on a stretching device,
    and then,
    I will PLUCK the top cable on the stretcher
    and LISTEN to the tone.

    Then,
    since both cables are on the stretcher at the same time...
    then,
    I PLUCK the bottom cable on the stretcher.

    PLUCK UPPER cable.
    PLUCK LOWER cable.

    Confirm that both cables are giving off the SAME EXACT tone.

    If one cable SOUNDS like a lower note..
    then,
    I loosen the stretching device,
    and add a half twist to the lower sounding cable...

    and then bring up the tension nice and tight,
    and
    then PLUCK the upper cable
    and
    then PLUCK the lower cable.

    LISTEN to the TONE.

    Then,
    when you have the SAME EXACT TONE...
    then,
    both cables are the SAME EXACT tension.

    Binary cam bows are extemely sensitive to cable pressure.
    WOW, I always pluck my cables and listen to the tone. I always wondered if anyone else done that. I've picked up on things before just to find out later that other people do the same thing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    OLD STYLE Binarys have no yoke cable.

    The new style Bowtechs, with the "overdrive system" does have a yoke cable.

    So,
    binary cam bows with NO yoke cable...

    obviously, we cannot adjust the tilt angle of the top axle.
    So, sideways nock travel is NOT easily adjustable for a bow with no yoke cable.

    So,
    if you are a right handed shooter,
    if you shoot a binary cam bow with NO YOKE cables,
    if your broadheads are hitting right of your field points...

    ONLY adjustment is to shorten the draw length,
    to get the release side forearm MORE in line directly behind the arrow
    to reduce SIDEWAYS pull on the bowstring down to zero.

    If you are a right handed shooter,
    if your broadheads are missing to the right of your field points..
    then,
    a combination of moving your arrow rest a SKOSH to the right...
    a combination of shortening the d-loop length
    a combination of taking twists out of the two cables to increase ATA, which reduces brace height


    all of these three things will help you dial in your broadhead point of impact with your field points.
    I think you meant to say something different , in that second paragraph , broadheads hitting to the left , then move rest slightly to the right

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ijimmy View Post
    I think you meant to say something different , in that second paragraph , broadheads hitting to the left , then move rest slightly to the right
    Yup.
    Sorry.
    Got that backwards.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  24. #24
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    How to tune in bow, Internet edition

    For later.
    Elite Pure 72lbs 31.5"DL

  25. #25
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    How to tune in bow, Internet edition

    Ill have to check this next time I tune

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