October 5th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Tuning for QAD Ultra Rest HDX
I just purchased a QAD Ultra Rest HDX from an archery shop and had them go ahead and install and "tune" it. I get it back from them and can instantly see that it doesn't look right. The arrow sits at a downward slope and to the left. It looks like they just threw it on so I asked. They said that they paper tuned it and that's where the rest had to be in order to shoot through the paper correctly. I'm shooting ok with it, but I was "driving tacks" when I had my TR Drop Zone on the bow a few days ago. The arrow sat so close to square that I couldn't tell with my naked eye if it wasn't. It just doesn't make since to me why the rest should be where it is set. Anybody with experience on this want to provide helpful comments?
October 6th, 2012, 02:58 PM
Did you change arrows at all during this change? Something definitely does not sound right. Is the rest coming up all the way and timed correctly (do the two lines on the rest and thumb lever match up perfectly)?
October 6th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Doesn't make sense to me either. There are dozens of variables to consider. Just a few guesses here -- judging from your location I'd guess that you're a hunter. If so, have you shot broadheads? How'd that work? I'm guessing that you're not completely satisfied with the rest. It's not the rest, it the way the rest is set up.
Paper tuning will only work if your're doing the shooting. Also, about paper tuning -- the arrow could be leaving the bow straight (I) or tail left (/) or right (\). As soon as the fletching starts taking control the results change. Actually this causes an over-correction. In other words, what may appear tail left at 9 feet may appear tail right at 15 feet. Reading a paper tear at only one distance is of no value.The likely exception would be if reading the tear at 2 or 3 feet.
My personal opinion is that they took your money and left you less than satisfied. And less than well set up.
Read thru Nuts and Bolts tuning guide that is a sticky at the top of this sub-forum. That is the info that will give you a starting point to begin asking the questions you need answered.
Your rest is one of the better ones on the market. It doesn't sound as if it's set up properly.
Best of luck to you.
October 6th, 2012, 09:32 PM
I'm not sure if this is any help to you but I went from a blade rest to a QAD a couple of months ago. When I paper tuned it, and adjusted for that bullet hole thru paper, I noticed the arrow pointing way off center. I could see this plain as day but it paper tuned there so I left it, went outside and startred out at 50 yds. This was a mistake !! completely missed the target.
So I eyeballed the rest back to center and made fine adjustments from there shooting 30 and 60 yds. For me paper tune does not seem to work so I won't be bothering with that anymore.
Hoyt Alpha Elite, 60X Custom Strings, Shibuya CPX 520
Specialty Scope, Gold Tip Ultra Pro, B Stinger stab.
AAE Pro Blade rest
October 8th, 2012, 01:07 AM
The rest appears to be timed correctly at full draw, but I did change arrows. Went from Victory V-Force V1 300s to Carbon Express Maxima Blue Streak Selects 350s (damn that's a long name). I have shot both field tips and mechanical broadheads (Shwacker 100gr). Everything seems to be flying alright.. Just not as good as I was before the rest swap. It's good enough to kill a deer as I found out yesterday I'm just picky about this kind of stuff, want to make sure it's RIGHT and that I'm back to "driving tacks".
October 8th, 2012, 08:48 AM
What is your Draw Weight? Arrow Length (Meassured from end of insert to nock grove (not tip of field point))? Field Point/Broadhead Weight? Make/Model of Bow?
Originally Posted by keck19
I'm guessing you are now spined incorrectly when you made a change in arrows. If you get me that I'll double check your math on the charts to give us more to go off of.
October 9th, 2012, 10:46 AM
My draw weight is about 65 lbs. I'll have to measure them when I get back home, but I think they are 29". Field point/Broadhead weight is 100 gr. I'm shooting a 2006 Diamond Victory bow.
October 9th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Okay so doing quick math (at work ) your adjusted draw weight is 76 lbs (assuming 29" arrow). Now looking at the chart a 350 Maxima looks to be correct BUT you are right on the line. If your arrow length ends up being 30" then according to the Carbon Express charts you are actually a MAX450 spine. Given everything you have told us and the fact you have changed arrows I am convinced you should be spined at a MAX450.
Originally Posted by keck19
Now what does this mean? If I were in your shoes I wouldn't jump the gun yet and assume either way. I'd personally have a shop make me one or two MAX450 arrows to try. Keep in mind charts are only a ball park and you are on the border, so the only way to know for sure is try it out. But if I had to bet, I'd say going to a MAX450 will fix your issues.
Hope I was able to help. Please keep us in the loop.
October 10th, 2012, 12:11 PM
Off work with pneumonia so I was able to measure my arrows. ~28 3/4" with Nocturnal nocks and ~28 5/8" with standard nocks from CX.
October 10th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Should a bought a WB
RER and Big River Longbows
Hoyt Cybertec and Maxxis
FMJ and VPA
October 10th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Shot one when I started a long time ago. I'm sure they are great for a lot of hunters, but they just aren't for me.
October 10th, 2012, 02:01 PM
Well then I'd think MAX350s would work. Couple more questions:
Originally Posted by keck19
1.) Are you sure your draw weight is 65lbs (have you measured it recently on an accurate scale)?
2.) Have you checked for contact with either lipstick or foot powder?
3.) Have YOU paper tuned it on your own to ensure it is infact shooting bullets?
4.) Is the rest height at a reasonable height (arrow going through Berger hole or thereabouts)?
If the answer is yes to all of the above and you are confident the rest is timed correctly I'd still be buying a MAX450 arrow to try.
October 10th, 2012, 02:46 PM
1.) No, I haven't measured recently. It could be +- 1-2 lbs.
2.) No, I haven't checked for contact using those methods. Tips on the best way to do this will be appreciated.
3.) No, I haven't because I don't have the place to do it. I could try to rig something up I guess.
4.) The rest appears to be at a reasonable height, but going through the Berger hole at an angle.
Here are some photos I took to give an idea of what I'm working with. Not sure why they are uploading sideways... sorry. Keep in mind that the bow and photos may not be perfectly level (hung from my shower rod as close to level I could get by eye balling it).
October 10th, 2012, 03:29 PM
I won't comment on why the rest required that angle to tune but I have had that happen to one of my Hoyts in the past that for me was sue to an under spinned arow. The bow shot easton azis 400's great but the nocl point was very high and drive me crazy. I went tested a 340 spine and while the bow did not shoot any better or worse the noick point did drop to comfortable (at least in my eyes) to a more acceptable level.
RER and Big River Longbows
Hoyt Cybertec and Maxxis
FMJ and VPA
October 10th, 2012, 03:31 PM
The way the arrow sits now is not Verticle, the rest moves back and up from that when you draw - go ahead and push it back a bit and it will level out. They installed in level on the riser, I just pushed mine totally against the riser with no gap, QAD does not say it has to be level (irrelevant really). Then I lined the string down a shaft on the rest and centered it, made sure my timing marks on the right side of the rest lined up exactly at full draw and bare shaft tuned from there. I have a Hoyt CRX35 and center shot work out at 11/16, mine bare shafted nock low, so I lowered the rest, no contact or anything - easy peasy lemon squeezy!
October 10th, 2012, 03:38 PM
There is also a little extension piece I would have used to push the rest farther out, it's like 3/8" and 1/2" maybe and has a larger screw, your top guard would have squared over it better. Looks like they moved the rest to the outside two holes to get it out farther as well. Why did you not just install it yourself?
If they paper tuned it, shoot a bare shaft from 10 feet and see what happens, that will tell you if that bow is set up correctly or not in 1 second.
October 10th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Mine is installed with no gap between the rest and the riser. When at full draw the timing marks on the rest line up correctly. The arrow doesn't level out at full draw because of the drastic angle it's at and the minimal rest height increase.
October 10th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Where do I get the extension? I didn't install it myself because I don't have a bow press and didn't want to use the string attachment/clap. Plus I wanted to use their range while I was there because I live over an hour away and in the city of New Orleans. I didn't know they were going to change $30 to install it... :-/
October 10th, 2012, 03:58 PM
It all comes in the box, maybe ask the dealer or call QAD, I set mine (set's itself even with berger hole) and nock at 1/16" above, when I tuned I had to lower my rest, so I'm maybe 1/8" high nock. You don't need a press, I tied mine to the buss with an over/under knot and adjusted it at the rest with the little allen wrench hole. I'm telling you, go barshaft a shaft, if it flies straight, no worries.
The give you a videop with it and tell you how to do it, too bad they don't post that video online, I looked and could not find it.
October 10th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Any pics of the extension you're talking about? Apparently they took it out of the box like they did the string clamp.
October 10th, 2012, 04:08 PM
October 10th, 2012, 04:56 PM
Okay call me crazy but I don't think your centershot looks off at all. You are 100% missing the spacer that is needed/could be used. I have to use a spacer on my Hoyt or else it looks exactly the same. I'll take a better look at the photos when I get home but looking at photo #2,4, & 5 it looks like everything lines up correctly just not the top bar.
October 10th, 2012, 05:00 PM
Now I'm getting a little frustrated. I looked at the paper included in the box and apparently I'm missing a few pieces. I don't understand why they decide to take stuff out even if I don't need it. I paid for it; therefore, I should get everything I paid for. Grrrr
Anyway, back to the questions at hand...
So the arrow is supposed to be sloping down like that? Picture #1 shows it fairly well.
October 10th, 2012, 05:25 PM
This is why I don't like only doing paper tuning. You can manipulate a rest way out of centershot to get good holes in paper but it may not be correct for the bow. They could have yoke tuned it to work on right and left and also used your buss cable to work on a high or low tear. Twisting the buss cable would get you a more level nock travel. Try doing the Nuts&Bolts tuning techniques on this link at home and see if it doesn't help http://archeryhistory.com/archerytal...of_Archery.pdf. I'd start with the walk back tune to get your centershot and then bare shaft. I bet you would need to make some tweeks with the set up from there. Shoot it through paper after that and see if it changes things. Remember that if you move the rest up or down much, you may need to re-time it. You can do that by pulling the rest cord tighter at the rest if you need by loosening the screw that holds it tight. If you need to make it longer, well you would need a longer cord for that. It looks to me that when they served it in the cable, they put it pretty high. Usually most people will go down to the bottom 1/4 of the grip if not lower so that may be a bit of an issue with your lighter faster arrows. If you want, you can get a Bowmaster portable bow press and do all of the work at home for $50 so you don't have to drive back to the shop. It's not a bad idea to have one anyway for emergencies.
Bear Anarchy HC
60th Anniversary Bear Kodiak Magnum 40#
October 10th, 2012, 10:33 PM
Let me state I'm by no means super experienced in bow tuning. But after looking at the photos again I'm not so sure his center shot is off that much (don't get me wrong I think it needs some work). It appears the arrow is going right through the center of the shelf currently and the pic from behind looks like is centershot is only slightly off a bit to the left. Nocking point definitely seems a bit high.
Originally Posted by Huntinsker
I think the whole thing is just looking exaggerated simply because his rest does not have the spacer installed. With the spacer installed the rest will center up over the shelf and it wont need adjusted so far to the left. As far as nocking point goes, you'll never know until you tune yourself. Definitely read Nuts & Bolts guide. It has helped me a ton.