Difference between expensive and cheaper recurves? - Page 2

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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyeclectic View Post
    Sweet!

    So basically it comes down to skill and, if you choose to go that route, accessories? I was thinking, once I started to get better with the bare bow, I'd get a set of sights and maybe a stabilizer, but that's a ways down the road.

    Everything I've read about the Sage says that it's a great bow so I'm excited. I'd hate to have to keep buying new bows, I'd rather spend my money on good accessories that could, if I need to, move those to another bow if/when I grow out of this one.

    Seems that might not be a problem. Works great for me!!
    You've got the right attitude! Keep it up. That's the attitude that will keep you in the sport and have you improve your shooting. I'm not sure what track you're on, hunting or target, but the Sage is a great all arounder. The shiny olympic type bows are designed for hardcore target shooters to get the maximum out of them for that type of shooting...release feel, limb design/ cast etc. On the other end, the area I happen to play in, is the hunting world..there you have all the custom bowyers who make exotic wood creations...these are works of handmade functional art...they won't necessarily outshoot a Sage, but they are just pretty and beautiful and imbued with the soul of their maker...like any artwork. They have less to do with performance and good shooting and more to do with uniqueness and tradition. But essential to good shooting? No.
    "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."--Marcus Aurelius

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  3. #27
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    electric -

    Tough question to answer, but here's a shot.

    With certain types of bows (excluding "customs"), the more expensive bows may feel somewhat smoother on the draw, and the chronograph "may" show a slight speed increase. They may also have additional tuning options. Other factors, things like materials, balance options and torsional stability will be present but will not be evident or exploitable by a novice or intermediate level shooter. That just reality.

    I excluded "customs" because in the trad world, exotic woods and furniture-like finishes certainly add to cost, but in reality don't make a bow shoot any better.

    The type of archery I'm most involved with these days can get very expensive, very quickly. I let my students know, if I tell them to buy something, they need it and that there are some things that are a total waste of money, either at their present level, or in general.

    Viper1 out.
    “Simple and innocent, however, as it (the bow) appears, and capable as it is of being a trusty friend and ally, a bow is at the same time a watchful enemy, ready to take advantage of the smallest slight.”

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  5. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper1 View Post
    The type of archery I'm most involved with these days can get very expensive, very quickly. I let my students know, if I tell them to buy something, they need it and that there are some things that are a total waste of money, either at their present level, or in general.

    Viper1 out.
    Okay, now you made me curious. :P I'm looking more into target shooting, I'll leave the hunting to my fiancé and his compound (every deer I see is still Bambi and too cute to kill - dunno if that'll ever change much to the Dude's dismay lol). For the beginner who wants to do her best, what would you recommend? I saw your First Recurve thread and am seriously looking into an ILF riser but are there things I can do/buy that would help me at this point using the Sage?

    *is all ears*

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  7. #29
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    Sara -

    If you are comfortable shooting it (weight-wise), the Sage is fine. You are now working on form and consistency and the Sage will handle that. The sling and a small stabilizer will help, and you can make the latter from parts from ACE hardware or Lowes. As in the link, the ILF rigs would be a good next step, but which riser and limb length depends on your draw length.

    Without knowing your draw length, 35# may or may not be too heavy for you with real target work That would be my biggest concern. Most of my adult female target shooters start in the 20# range (+/-).

    Viper1 out.
    “Simple and innocent, however, as it (the bow) appears, and capable as it is of being a trusty friend and ally, a bow is at the same time a watchful enemy, ready to take advantage of the smallest slight.”

  8. #30
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    Viper: I'm 5'8" with a center-chest-to-wrist measurement between 26.75-27". I started out on a 30# bow from the shop then got my 35# Sage and so far it doesn't hurt me even after 2+ hours shooting. In hindsight I'd probably go with 30# limbs, but don't feel overbowed at my current level. I really do enjoy the Sage (although I'm still trying to figure out a good grip) but am thinking of trying an ILF riser in the not-so-distant future. I just purchased some 1816 aluminum Easton's and I'm planning to install 125grain tips and 3-4" fletchings once they arrive, but am not sure how long I'll trim the arrows to.

    Seriously though, if you have ANY advice to impart I'd be very appreciative, I don't know ANY traditional/recurve shooters around here!

  9. #31
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    Sara -

    Next time you're at the range have someone measure your draw length with a draw check arrow on your bow and again on the lightest bow they have (hopefully about 10 -15#). The DL should be the same. (Don't go by calculations - hit or miss at best.)

    If you are anchoring and holding at anchor for a few seconds with the Sage, you might be fine, but you would also be the exception, in my experience anyway.

    OK, unless you're leaving the arrows full length, 1816s will most likely tune stiff, but again without an accurate DL, gonna be hard to say.

    Hard to say on the grip thing. Some people and some bow grips just don't get along. In person, it would be easy to try repositioning your hand on the grip, over the net, not so much. Basically you want the bow to "fall" into the life line on your palm and find it's most natural position - again, think pushing a refrigerator.

    Viper1 out.
    “Simple and innocent, however, as it (the bow) appears, and capable as it is of being a trusty friend and ally, a bow is at the same time a watchful enemy, ready to take advantage of the smallest slight.”

  10. #32
    those that are able to pay for the expensive bow and want it will probably buy it. Those who are on a limited cash flow will buy a cheap bow if they want to shoot one. The one that shoots the best is the one you can shoot. Expensive is not necessarily anything other than a higher price tag.
    But we all know the real thrill is casting the arrow and hearing the thump.

  11. #33
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    Really appreciate the help Viper. The shop has (had?) a 25# PSE LH recurve bow for sale (looked a lot like the Sage, don't know the model tho), maybe I can see if they'll let me try it out? I definitely hold my position for several seconds at a time when aiming and while its a strain, I don't think it's terribly difficult. Since I have it, I'll continue using the Sage but as soon as I meet someone else with a recurve who looks like they know what they're doing, I'll (scare them away lol) see if they can help me a bit.

    Hmm, maybe I should put something on the coaches forum, even one lesson with a certified coach might be better than continuing with my patchwork knowledge...

    Quote Originally Posted by ladOR View Post
    those that are able to pay for the expensive bow and want it will probably buy it. Those who are on a limited cash flow will buy a cheap bow if they want to shoot one. The one that shoots the best is the one you can shoot. Expensive is not necessarily anything other than a higher price tag.
    But we all know the real thrill is casting the arrow and hearing the thump.
    Heh, true dat.

  12. #34
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    only a small majority can tell the difference and what a more expensive bow will door them, when you reach that level it will help you,more than a less expensive one,and ray i still remember the day you shot my metal handle bow you looked at me like i was crazy, but ,after you shot it ,i could see their was no turning back

  13. #35
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    For me there is definitely a difference.
    Going to a barebow specific target riser and good limbs was a huge step-up in performance. I am sure I would not be able to perform at the same level with gear which wasn't as well made or suited to my purpose.

    That said there is a lot you can learn from something like a Sage, just don't expect it to take you as far as your potential will allow. Eventually it will become a limiting factor.

    -Grant

  14. #36
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    The guys are doing their best to describe the difference but the only real way to tell is to shoot a lot of different bows and see for yourself. At the big shoots you can do this and most archers will be glad to let you fling a few arrows with their bows they are so proud of. Or if you aren't able to attend a big shoot attend local 3-D shoots and hope a good showing of traditional archers show up so you can shoot a few different bows. A lot of the differences are intangible and subjective so what feels great to you may not feel so great to someone else.

    I don't own one but every Wes Wallace Mentor bow I've ever shot felt GREAT. Solid, smooth, fast and hard hitting. I should treat myself to one one day.

  15. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-lo View Post
    There is a difference in tunability in an Olympic recurve and a Samick Sage, most Olympic recurves are usually also longer, commonly 66 - 70 inches depending on the riser size and limbs, which will affect how they feel on your fingers and draw.

    An Olympic ILF bow is also a very flexible platform as you can use many different brand limbs, sizes, quality and weight.

    Most ILF bows will also have more options for accessories, whether they be clicker plates, various stabilizer fittings, etc. Riser material and design should also make a difference in the feel or how snappy a bow feels.

    Like Arrowwood already mentioned though, it depends on how you're going to use it. I thought the bowfishing example vs shooting 70 meters was perfect.

    For myself, I've found the ILF platform hard to beat in flexibility.
    ladyelectric,

    c-lo's post sums it up pretty well, and after a lot of research, it is the reason I opted for a ILF Olympic style bow for my first rig. I'm a novice archer myself, having just started in September. When I took lessons from a local club, the bows used were mostly Samick Polaris. Fun to shoot and appropriate for beginners. I also knew that I wanted to focus on target shooting, so I gravitated to the Oly style riser and limbs. My son shoots with Samick Sage, and it is an excellent bow, and you'll be able to enjoy it for some time yet.

    My point of view as a novice archer ... you don't have to spend a lot of $$ to get started, and there's no rush to accessorize. I spent just a bit over $200 for my riser, limbs and string. I added an arrow rest, tab, arm guard, quiver, and of course my arrows. You've got the basics to get you on the right path. As for me, as I develop my form and consistency, I'll start to add more to my rig, like a plunger, a sight, and maybe some stabilizers. But I'll do that over time.
    Shooting a Win & Win Winact VT riser and 28# Samick Universal limbs, custom made string,
    Shibuya Ultima RC sight (standard), Shibuya DX plunger, W&W SF arrow rest,
    Cartel Midas XD Nano Carbon stabilizers, AAE adjustable magnetic clicker, Black Mamba Venom 2 tab,
    CX Medallion Pro 710, CX X-Buster 700, & Easton Platinum Plus 1716 arrows.

  16. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry tom View Post
    My point of view as a novice archer ... you don't have to spend a lot of $$ to get started, and there's no rush to accessorize. I spent just a bit over $200 for my riser, limbs and string. I added an arrow rest, tab, arm guard, quiver, and of course my arrows. You've got the basics to get you on the right path. As for me, as I develop my form and consistency, I'll start to add more to my rig, like a plunger, a sight, and maybe some stabilizers. But I'll do that over time.
    Well, I have a teensy confession to make: I already know I fall into the category that loves this sport and want to take it to the next level, so yesterday I purchased via the AT classifieds a W&W SF Forged Plus riser and, once I get it, will be setting it up with some limbs and using that. The Sage is wonderful and, until then, I'll be using it nonstop (no seriously, I'm at the archery lanes EVERY day except Sunday, only because that's when they're closed lol), but I agree with what everyone's saying and want to get serious. Well, okay, not $2000-bow-serious but get something that can hopefully grow with me. I'm also contacting some (not-so-local) coaches to set up future dates after the new year.

    Until then, I'll be focusing on form and what I can learn here. Spent the whole day today shooting at 20y, literally for seven hours straight. My shoulders and back are limp but not sore, and I'll be taking tomorrow off to let them rest then jumping right back in. Archery is AWESOME!!!

  17. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ladyeclectic View Post
    Well, I have a teensy confession to make: I already know I fall into the category that loves this sport and want to take it to the next level, so yesterday I purchased via the AT classifieds a W&W SF Forged Plus riser and, once I get it, will be setting it up with some limbs and using that. ........

    ..... Spent the whole day today shooting at 20y, literally for seven hours straight. My shoulders and back are limp but not sore, and I'll be taking tomorrow off to let them rest then jumping right back in. Archery is AWESOME!!!
    Welcome to the addiction

  18. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyeclectic View Post
    Well, I have a teensy confession to make: I already know I fall into the category that loves this sport and want to take it to the next level, so yesterday I purchased via the AT classifieds a W&W SF Forged Plus riser and, once I get it, will be setting it up with some limbs and using that. The Sage is wonderful and, until then, I'll be using it nonstop (no seriously, I'm at the archery lanes EVERY day except Sunday, only because that's when they're closed lol), but I agree with what everyone's saying and want to get serious. Well, okay, not $2000-bow-serious but get something that can hopefully grow with me. I'm also contacting some (not-so-local) coaches to set up future dates after the new year.

    Until then, I'll be focusing on form and what I can learn here. Spent the whole day today shooting at 20y, literally for seven hours straight. My shoulders and back are limp but not sore, and I'll be taking tomorrow off to let them rest then jumping right back in. Archery is AWESOME!!!
    Congrats on the new bow! Good move on buying used. I'm a classified junkie myself. Recurves and longbows hold their value well after the initial depreciation so even if one doesn't work out you can usually get most, if not all, of your money back. Lots of people try, buy, trade, sell, several bows until they find what suits them. There aren't many bad bows around, but the longer you are in the game the more refined your "taste" becomes.

    If you ever develop a taste for "custom" bows you are lost...so many beautiful bows going through the classifeds...put down the credit card and step away from the computer...lol...

  19. #41
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    You know when I was younger I had a cheap pair of binoculars from the local department store. I thought they were top notch and was all I needed or wanted. Then a day came that I got to peer through a true quality pair of glasses. It ruined me forever on those department store glasses. true story . The moral of this is if you like the cheap import bows, don't pick up a quality bow , there is a lot more to a quality bow that exotic wood and a fine finish.

  20. #42
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    I realize this post is old, but it still has wings. I'm just starting to think about upgrading my Polaris to an Olympic style recurve. Mostly because now that Ive been shooting for about four years I know I shoot spots, not much else. Maybe a foam rubber jackelope if the guys invite me to join them.

  21. #43
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    GigiSO -

    Nothing much has changed in the last few years.
    I think you're about ready for the upgrade.

    edit:

    Only real question is if you want to go intermediate or high end, and that depends on how well you can identify exactly what you're looking for.

    Viper1 out.
    “Simple and innocent, however, as it (the bow) appears, and capable as it is of being a trusty friend and ally, a bow is at the same time a watchful enemy, ready to take advantage of the smallest slight.”

  22. #44
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    This is my take, a big difference between the high end and low end bows in materials used and actual build quality and tuning options, I would say at least 85% of shooters wont notice any difference in shootability, the top Field/3D shooters were it can be just a few points over several days it will make a difference and those high end bows start to come into play.

    If you gave Brady Ellison a low end bow like a SF Forged+ he would blow away 99% of us but he would likely struggle against his elite peers.

    Sometimes a higher end bow gives the intermediate Archer a little more confidence and that mental edge is all that's required to take their shooting up another notch.

  23. #45
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    I remember shooting a predecessor of the Samick Sage more than 30 years ago. At this time, the limb fitting system was a bit of a problem. After lots of arrows the limbs would develop some sort of sideways "give" in the limb pockets, making the limbs rotate a little around the axis of the limb bolts. Not sure if it were the limbs that got compressed over time or the limb fittings were gradually fading. Anyway, after shooting numerous arrows you would notice a small gap between the sides of the limb mounts and the respective fittings, most likely adding inaccuracy to the bow.

    I am not sure if that problem still exists but the pictures available of the Sage look as if the limb fitting system hadn't changed much over time. I would give this issue a close look at a bow shop, preferably on a bow that has been shot for some time.

    Best regards, Ralf

  24. #46
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    Guys -

    Just for the record, if you're talking about the difference between a Sage, Polaris or similar wood recurve vs something like a SF Forged, TT Titan or almost any ILF rig and a high end riser/limb combo, they really are two different comparisons. IOWs, any ILF rig is going to be major step up from a wood risered, bolt-on limb bow in the $150 range. I like Steve's analogy, but I don't think the SF is a low end rig, probably more of an intermediate level and the Axiom + limbs are still superb for the price. Do they have the same "feel" as a $700 pair of limbs, no. Could most people tell the difference? I'd bet they couldn't in a blind test.

    Viper1 out.
    “Simple and innocent, however, as it (the bow) appears, and capable as it is of being a trusty friend and ally, a bow is at the same time a watchful enemy, ready to take advantage of the smallest slight.”

  25. #47
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    Recently, went from a Ragime Matrix to an SF Forged + and have been very happy with the upgrade.

  26. #48
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    Shoot Many never know what will fit you best but my best is a expensive bow but I still shoot some Bears that are not expensive! Rob

  27. #49
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    Most of the time the extra cost is cosmetics.

  28. #50
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    My favorite "shooter" is my 30# Shakespeare Trident that was made in the mid-1960s. Bought it for $100. from a antique shop. I have a "better" vintage bow, but I shoot best with this one.

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