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Thread: Heavy Duty Game.... What Crossbow Rig?????

  1. #1

    Heavy Duty Game.... What Crossbow Rig?????

    Want to set-up a crossbow rig specifically for heavier and difficult to penetrate game that will require the utmost in kinetic energy. Based on this I'm going to need a 650-700 minimum grain arrow and heavy duty two blade broadhead. The game planned for this set-up would include large Russian Boar, Bison, Water Buffalo and possibly Cape Buffalo. What would be the ideal rig for something like this in the context of a crossbow, arrow weight and broadhead. I think a Scorpyd Velocity 165, Dorge's Dinosaur arrows and Silver Flame broadheads would work but how heavy of a bow would be required? I currently have a TAC 15i but primarily use it for target shooting and planned to purchase a new Tenpoint Vapor which would work for for all antelope, deer and elk hunting needs. At 165lbs and 121 ft. lbs of kinetic energy with a 420 grain arrow this rig would be ideal for these needs but don't know if loading it up with a 650-700 grain arrow would work for this heavier game. Anyone who has any thoughts or experience on this I'd appreciate your input.



  2. #2
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    I think ... you got it right with the Scorpyd setup.
    Scorpyd Velocity165 425.5fps @ 426gr & 171KE, Zeiss 3-12 Illum Duralyt, CamX Accuspine, 100gr Firenock SBG RamCats Scorpyd Orion150 Leupold 2.5-8x36mm, AcuDraw, Wyvern BEEs. Swarovski bino, Leica rangefinder, Surefire, Deerelight & Fenix lights.
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  3. #3
    I watched Joe Thomas on the OUTDOOR CHANNEL take a huge Water, (Cape?) Buffalo with an 800 gn arrow, bouble bladed broadhead and an 80 lb draw wt. verticle compound bow... no idea what all that translates into vis-a-vis Crossbows!

    RobtW

  4. #4
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    Just my opinion, I believe the Vapor may be enough. TenPoint's Full Metal Jacket arrow that weights 445gn. shooting a 125gn. Silver Flame may be all you need. That would give you a 570gn. arrow total weight. If you felt that wasn't enough the Scorpyd set up should work.

    I should add the Vapor would need the 22" FMJ and would weigh a bit more.
    Last edited by 202gwg; January 17th, 2013 at 02:56 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Lots of moose/large Elk/big bears are shot with archery eguipment. The Scorpyd will do the trick. Do you need an excessive weight arrow,I doubt it. I would just get a good fixed blade broadhead that shoots WELL. Most important is to pick a shot where you can reach the vitals. Good luck

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    ND, the Scorpyd may well be your best bet, however, keep in mind that extra heavy arrows slow compound crossbows quite a bit more than they do with recurves. It would be interesting see chrono results of the Scorpyd and the new 265 lb draw Matrix 380 with a 700 to 800 grain arrow:-)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    ND, the Scorpyd may well be your best bet, however, keep in mind that extra heavy arrows slow compound crossbows quite a bit more than they do with recurves. It would be interesting see chrono results of the Scorpyd and the new 265 lb draw Matrix 380 with a 700 to 800 grain arrow:-)
    Let us not forget the new "DTM 405/435", Moon...
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  8. #8
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    Swamp, can you get a chrono reading on a 700 and 800 grain arrow with the 435 DTM?
    MOON

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    Might look at the Darton Fireforce, built like a tank, rated at 400fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Swamp, can you get a chrono reading on a 700 and 800 grain arrow with the 435 DTM?
    I'll do what I can, Moon! I'm getting the DTM 405, though! Maybe Derrick would be the better fellow to ask...
    "Never judge a man... Till you walk a mile in his swamp." -----Swamp Donky

  11. #11
    That is what I know,
    With RDT165 which is what the ventilator is base on, can shot the 800+25+125 = 950 grains arrow at 310fps and at 100 yard it is still at over 290 fps. I think that should about punch through ANYTHING alive!
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  12. #12
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    At 100 yards still over 290 when it is 310 at the start, maybe on the Moon.
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  13. #13
    It is the MOMENTUM, on earth! Check the momentum table and you will know exactly what I mean. Mass & momentum goes hand in hand!!! And that is why I created the Dragon Slayer for that exact purpose. But you are going to need something that can get it up to speed to start! Then it is not going to slow down that easily with close to 1000 grains. You should see that spiderweb target at ATA, the dragon slayer out of the velocity nearly knock the target over!! THat is what I called abundance of POWER. ;-)
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    You also might want to consider a bow that has reliability on it's side. I was told by the cameraman that this elephant died in about an hour and the arrow was stopped by the off-side leg.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJokpxvMmvA
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  15. #15
    I have some of these coming to shoot out of a Scorpyd 165. I want to compare for myself in a new Reinhart Rhino Brute target.
    I've never seen a arrow pass through one of these targets. If the Voodoos do- that's special.
    http://bowhunting.net/video/2012/08/...rossbow-bolts/
    c-t

  16. #16
    Firenock ds sounds like the arrow u want. A elephants rib has to be pretty darn thick.

  17. #17
    For a broad head you might want to consider the GrizzlyStik Nanook or Ashby single piece forged broad head.

    No screws etc to fail and single bevel should cut more effectively.

  18. #18
    I think you will have plenty of bow with the Scorpyd. I am working with a heavy setup for other reasons but have been testing a 350 grain built arrow and using a 175 grain tip, that's good for 625 grains out of my Gale Force, it is traveling 287 fps. I am going to try and use a 3 Blade VPA Terminator. They also make a 2 blade. My problem is the testing stopped because I need more than my morrel broadhead target to stop them, I shot one with a slick trick 175 and it fully penetrated to the nock, the VPA is a cut on impact and will surely pass thru. So to get setup with the weight and power you have you will need a heavy duty target to get that heavy duty arrow wowed!! Here i my results so far, and like said about MOMENTUM WOW you can't believe the travel characteristics, the momentum does more than the K.E. gain, and the benefits are tremendous, easier on the bow by transferring more energy to the arrow, quieter, less vibration for a smoother shot, it has been great. this is a quote from my Gale Force post.



    The testing continues! I have put together 4 arrows for my forgiving swamp cpr fields and thickets. These arrows weigh in at 450 grains naked, with 4" duravanes, with a 175 grain tip at 625 grains I am running a 5 shot average of 287.6 fps. and again .9 fps. extreme spread. the great thing is I have the XB-30 zeroed for 20 yards on the center (main) aiming point with the 440 grain arrows, which will be my main hunting arrows. with the 440 grain I have perfect 20, 30, 40, 50, & 60 yard aiming points, all within 1.5" of being dead on.

    But with these heavy brush hunting arrows the XB-30 is zeroed at 10 yards on the center (main) aiming point, so the second crosshair down is dead on at 20 yards!! when I change to the 625 grain arrows those same aiming point become 10, 20, 30, & 40 yards, I did not shoot this arrow to see where the bottom crosshair is placing my arrows as I wont ever need these arrows out much past 30 yards. But it is great that the speed dial (magnification) does not ever need to be changed for either arrow weight! These heavy arrows have been far beyond what I expected, I have only used field points so far in my testing except for one shot to see where the impact at 20 yards on my broadhead target. That testing left one conclusion. My Morrel broadhead stop's these bad boys, but it is a b%*&H trying to pull them with only 1.5" sticking out, and .5" of that is the slip knock. I need a better broadhead target before I try and stop these shafts with VPA 175 grain Terminators on them! I will keep updating my testing with the new bow and scope as it progresses!

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by crappie-tom View Post
    I've never seen a arrow pass through one of these targets. If the Voodoos do- that's special.
    http://bowhunting.net/video/2012/08/...rossbow-bolts/
    c-t
    This video only shows a specific target penetration...there is so much difference in penetration, because the target has much "side friction on the arrow …would like to see them shoot those arrows at the "rag bag" target (that target does not has that much side friction on the arrow) and then compare the penetration. Flesh and bones are another different story...also would like to see those arrows shoot through a chronograph, if there is some speed increment with the same arrow weight.

    Just my thoughts.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Swamp, can you get a chrono reading on a 700 and 800 grain arrow with the 435 DTM?
    Here is what I was able to average from two shots on each, I will see if I can find something heavier like 1000-1200 grn. Don't have anything only 5/16 aluminum rod, would rather try an arrow, something tells me the rod might go sideways.

    Scorpyd 165 with 702grn arrow 164KE (325fps)

    DTM435 275lbs draw 716grn arrow 180KE (336fps)

    DTM405 260lbs draw 716grn arrow 153KE (311fps)
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    This video only shows a specific target penetration...there is so much difference in penetration, because the target has much "side friction on the arrow …would like to see them shoot those arrows at the "rag bag" target (that target does not has that much side friction on the arrow) and then compare the penetration. Flesh and bones are another different story...also would like to see those arrows shoot through a chronograph, if there is some speed increment with the same arrow weight.

    Just my thoughts.
    Actually another member using the same rag bag as mine destroyed his using voodoo's. So my curiosity more than anything is making me do it. I think if you shot a animal with this arrow you would have a much better blood trail especially if it wasn't a complete pass through. The big egg and the small shaft diameter would let blood flow more easily. I hope to be shooting them soon so, I'll have some first hand experience.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    ND, the Scorpyd may well be your best bet, however, keep in mind that extra heavy arrows slow compound crossbows quite a bit more than they do with recurves. It would be interesting see chrono results of the Scorpyd and the new 265 lb draw Matrix 380 with a 700 to 800 grain arrow:-)
    Do you know anybody that could even cock a bow with that weight draw??
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathewsfan View Post
    Do you know anybody that could even cock a bow with that weight draw??
    Moon can do it.

  24. #24
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    Maybe so but a 185lb Tenpoint with an accudraw is more than most guys I know can deal with for more than a couple of shots. Let's face it there's only 2 things you can do to get any more speed out of a recurve, more draw weight and longer power stroke. I think I read somewhere that Excal's "380" actually on shoots about 360. Any truth to that?
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  25. #25
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    Mathews, I cocked the 265 lb draw Matrix, which was a complete shock to me:-) Its short power stroke is the reason I could do it. If it had a 14 or 15 inch power stroke there's no way I could have cocked it. I don't know the speed with their recommended 350 grain arrow but they say 375 to 380.

    The Middleton 435 uses a longer power stroke at 275 lbs, if I'm not mistaken, but one thig is for sure, it's one baddassed crossbow.
    MOON

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