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Thread: Hey Nuts &Bolts!

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  1. #1
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    Hey Nuts &Bolts!

    Hey Alan, how about starting a daily or weekly thread where you teach us something new everytime?? You choose the topic. That way we wont have to stalk your posts to find the info that we all crave. We all appreciate the stuff you teach us. This would just give us a daily or weekly lesson. Pretty please????

    Owner: **Precision Tune ** When good enough just ain't good enough!


  2. #2
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    I second this motion!

  3. #3
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    sounds like a good idea to me too!

  4. #4
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    Hey Nuts &Bolts!

    I also agree. I really enjoy reading all his post!

  5. #5
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    yep!

  6. #6
    i agree as well

  7. #7
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    Would be an awesome idea! If he had time and didn't take up to much of his time I'd be all for it too!
    What you see going by is a shadow... you've got to live in front of your eyes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by P&y only View Post
    Hey Alan, how about starting a daily or weekly thread where you teach us something new everytime?? You choose the topic. That way we wont have to stalk your posts to find the info that we all crave. We all appreciate the stuff you teach us. This would just give us a daily or weekly lesson. Pretty please????
    I'm semi-retired,
    working only half time.

    I love to research a question,
    so just post up a question,
    or send me a pm...

    and then,
    I can come up with the answer,
    or suggestions to try.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    I'm semi-retired,
    working only half time.

    I love to research a questiion,
    so just post up a question,
    or send me a pm...

    and then,
    I can come up with the answer,
    or suggestions to try.
    the problem is that we dont know what we dont know. for example: i sent you a pm about something. i cant remember what. in your reply you said" after you have micro adjusted your draw length" and then u answered my question. but then that just opened the whole new can o worms about micro adjusting draw length. so it makes me wonder how big is the pile of info you have to give that we dont even know to ask about. so i guess i will start it here for everyone. Alan, please explain micro adjusting draw length and why would we. Thanks! whos got the next question?
    Owner: **Precision Tune ** When good enough just ain't good enough!

  10. #10

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length

    Quote Originally Posted by P&y only View Post
    the problem is that we dont know what we dont know. for example: i sent you a pm about something. i cant remember what. in your reply you said" after you have micro adjusted your draw length" and then u answered my question. but then that just opened the whole new can o worms about micro adjusting draw length. so it makes me wonder how big is the pile of info you have to give that we dont even know to ask about. so i guess i will start it here for everyone. Alan, please explain micro adjusting draw length and why would we. Thanks! whos got the next question?
    Hello P&y:

    MICRO-ADJUSTING draw length.

    Nearly all cam systems are adjustable in 1/2-inch sizes.

    Might be a DL MODULE with lots and lots of holes, where each hole is a 1/2-inch adjustment in draw length.
    Might be replaceable modules, where each module is a different draw length, in 1/2 inch DL adjustments
    Might be Fixed DL cams, where each Fixed DL cam is a different DL size, in 1/2 inch sizes.

    Soooooooo,
    adjusting Draw Length in 1/2-inch SIZES...is helpful, but NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    I'm semi-retired,
    working only half time.

    I love to research a question,
    so just post up a question,
    or send me a pm...

    and then,
    I can come up with the answer,
    or suggestions to try.
    Alan,
    Hello...it has been some time since we conversed. I always admire the analytical thinking...some do not understand what it takes but I do. Okay...I have a question for those that want to learn....we talk about tuning bows...I know you already addressed most of this but when it comes to tuning a split buss cable such as on a bowtech then what do we really want to do as ....let us just talk physics...momentum and the continuum...that should get your brain going as you and I have exchanged in this field before. Archery is fascinating in the respect that we can propel an object at a target...and we always wish to know at what impact...KE it will do the best. For tournament it is different as we can lessen the FOC to achieve a properly weighted arrow but in a hunting venue it is different...all seem to want a large FOC such as 12-15%....why. Momentum is movement of weight at a given object but KE is ...Kenetic Enery,...is the force so to speak. I hear so many arguments as to which is better but what is truly the best?...does anyone really know. I am rambling now but will say hello again. Cheers!
    Fred

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick D. Be View Post
    Alan,
    Hello...it has been some time since we conversed. I always admire the analytical thinking...some do not understand what it takes but I do. Okay...I have a question for those that want to learn....we talk about tuning bows...I know you already addressed most of this but when it comes to tuning a split buss cable such as on a bowtech then what do we really want to do as ....let us just talk physics...momentum and the continuum...that should get your brain going as you and I have exchanged in this field before. Archery is fascinating in the respect that we can propel an object at a target...and we always wish to know at what impact...KE it will do the best. For tournament it is different as we can lessen the FOC to achieve a properly weighted arrow but in a hunting venue it is different...all seem to want a large FOC such as 12-15%....why. Momentum is movement of weight at a given object but KE is ...Kenetic Enery,...is the force so to speak. I hear so many arguments as to which is better but what is truly the best?...does anyone really know. I am rambling now but will say hello again. Cheers!
    Fred
    Hello Fred:

    The physics is simple.

    If your goal is to reach your target as fast as possible,
    you want to maximize arrow speed....so select the LIGHTEST weight projectile,
    that will give you the necessary stiffness to fly properly (proper spine).

    If your goal is to reach your target (animal you are hunting)
    and you want to maximize the probability of a PASS-THROUGH,
    then,
    you want momentum...the more momentum, then
    the GREATER the difficulty to slow this object down....(your broadhead).
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  13. #13
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    Alan is like "Underdog" and the rest of us are "Polly Purebred",he seems to always come to our rescue when we are in trouble,if there is anyone whom is more helpfull then we are truly blessed............Thank You ,Alan,and may the "force"always be with you.
    Taxidermist/ commercial tannery owner and bow tuning shop 32 yrs and running... I shoot them all,and just pick the one that likes me!!!!

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    P&Y is right;kind like when we were in school and ask the teacher how to spell something and she says"look it up in the dictionary"...Kind hard to look it up if you can't spell it,,,,DUH!!!
    Taxidermist/ commercial tannery owner and bow tuning shop 32 yrs and running... I shoot them all,and just pick the one that likes me!!!!

  15. #15
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    This could very well turn out to be the best thread on AT.
    “Those who act like sheep, will be eaten by Wolves”

    DNA

  16. #16
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    Yeah, I'm pretty excited already for this thread!
    What you see going by is a shadow... you've got to live in front of your eyes.

  17. #17
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    Pretty cool idea.
    It would be nice if the mods could add a feature to subscribe to a users posts.
    Guess I can always search.
    If so subscribe me to anything nuts&bolts posts.
    New Breed Cyborg (on order) | Mathews DLD | Hoyt Carbon Matrix | Tallon Whisky-Jack Longbow
    Pro Staff Shooter for Me, Myself and I!
    Supporter of Nuge's Strings

  18. #18

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    So,
    I see lots of threads,
    which basically are asking about LEFT paper tears, RIGHT paper tears,
    bareshafts not hitting with field points,
    fixed blade broadheads missing to the RIGHT of field points (RIGHT handed shooter).

    So,
    these are reasons why we need to MICRO-ADJUST the draw length,
    in amounts MUCH less than the 1/2-inch EASY adjustments provided by the manufacturer.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  19. #19

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    So,
    let's take a look at what adjusting your draw length
    is REALLY trying to do.

    Anytime you adjust the bow Draw Length setting,
    we are ALL hoping to improve the size of our arrow groups.

    We want our fletched arrows to have the SAME point of impact.
    We want the fixed blade broadheads to have the SAME point of impact as our field points.

    So,
    we need to talk about ALIGNMENT.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  20. #20

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    ALIGNMENT.

    Here is a REAL WORLD case.
    Young man was sold a bow that was WAY too long for bow draw length setting.
    NOT even close.

    A shame, actually.




    So,
    let's take a CLOSER LOOK at the ALIGNMENT of the release side forearm.

    THINK of the release side FOREARM...

    as a flashlight
    as a laser pointer.

    So,
    this young man
    has his LASER POINTER aiming WAY WAY off to the RIGHT
    of where he has the fletched field point arrow aiming.

    So,
    if he were to shoot through PAPER,
    the result would be a MASSIVE left PAPER TEAR.

    So,
    the usual advice he would get:

    a) move your arrow rest to the right
    b) stop torquing your bow hand
    c) get a stiffer arrow
    d) a FEW, might recommend adding a say 2 twists to the TOP AXLE, end loop on the LEFT...and remove 2 twists on the TOP AXLE, end loop on the RIGHT


    When trying to understand a concept,
    imagine the EXTREME CASE,
    and then,
    you understand the FUNDAMENTALS.

    So,
    unfortunately,
    this is a REAL WORLD CASE.

    a) moving the arrow rest to the RIGHT, to FIX a left paper tear...is respectfully, CHEATING.
    ....what you accomplish by moving the arrow rest to RIGHT, to fix a SMALL left paper tear, is trying to get the arrow rest to LINEUP with the arrow FLIGHT PATH
    ....if we have a SMALL mis-alignment of the LASER POINTER (release side forearm), then, moving the arrow rest to the RIGHT WILL WORK
    ....the SMALL mis-alignment of the LASER POINTER (release side forearm) pulls the bowstring SIDEWAYS to the LEFT and, when the BACK END of the arrow is PULLED LEFT, then the FRONT END is PUSHED RIGHT

    So, for this young man,
    the MIS-ALIGNMENT is SOOOOOOOOO SEVERE...

    this is the post you see on ArcheryTalk,
    where the Fella says...."I moved my arrow rest ALL the way to the RIGHT...I moved my arrow rest ALL the way to the LEFT...and I'm still getting this MASSIVE LEFT PAPER TEAR".

    So,
    the REAL FIX, for a TRULY MASSIVE LEFT paper tear (assuming a RIGHT HANDED shooter)
    is to FIX the alignment of the LASER POINTER (release side forearm).

    So,
    the REAL FIX is to get this young man to this alignment position....




    So,
    the FIRST STEP
    is to use the available 1/2-inch draw length changes...

    maybe he is lucky and was sold an ADJUSTABLE draw length bow...where he just has to move a screw to a different hole on the ADJUSTABLE DL module...

    maybe he is a little LESS lucky, and has to go back to the point of sale, and swap out DL modules and find the BEST size of DL module, in the SHORTER direction

    maybe he is TRULY unlucky, and was sold a FIXED draw length cam, where he now needs to find the CORRECT SIZE of FIXED draw length cam,
    and completely new rigging to match the SHORTER FIXED draw length cam.

    So,
    he gets the SHORTER DL setting adjusted on his bow...

    but,
    he has gone from a MASSIVE LEFT TEAR when paper tuning...

    to a MILD LEFT paper tear, when paper tuning.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  21. #21

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    Now,
    that we are in the ball park...

    now that we are within 1/4-inch of the PERFECT draw length...

    NOW,
    we can talk about micro-tuning the draw length,
    which is making adjustments to the ALIGNMENT of the release side forearm (Laser Pointer)
    to really DIAL IN the draw length setting on the bow.


    So,
    this is where my KITCHEN SINK Tuning comes in.

    We ALL want to have the same arrow point of impact.
    WE ALL want field points and broadheads to hit the same spot.
    We ALL want our target arrows to nail the center of the x-ring..again and again and again.

    This is why we DIAL IN the draw length setting on the bow,
    one twist in the bowstring, at a time,
    when we are up to 1/4-inch AWAY...from DIALING in the PERFECT bow draw length setting....
    cuz...

    cam DL sizes are spaced 1/2-inch apart.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  22. #22

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    So,
    the first few steps of my KITCHEN SINK Tuning are a test for DIALING in your bow DL setting
    getting the ALIGNMENT of the release forearm PERFECT,
    so we can get the SAME arrow point of impact....

    nailing a weighted string,
    just 5 FEET away.



    STEP 1:

    So,
    hang a spool of string or any string with a weight on the end,
    in front of a target.

    Step back 5 feet.
    Fire a fletched arrow at the string.
    Tweak the sight pins windage a skosh left...a skosh right,
    until the fletched arrow TOUCHES or even SPLITS the string material.

    You should get this result.






    Then,
    we goto the next stage.

    Step back 5 feet,
    and try again with a bareshaft (arrow with no vanes).

    You should get this result.






    If you are a RIGHT HANDED shooter
    and
    the bareshaft misses to the RIGHT of the string...


    STEP 2:

    Press your bow
    and shorten the LEFT SIDE buss cable leg say 1 complete twist
    and lengthen the RIGHT SIDE buss cable leg say 1 complete twist
    and fire a bareshaft again at the hanging string in front of the target...

    the bareshaft point of impact should MOVE CLOSER TO THE STRING...

    repeat the shortening of the LEFT SIDE buss cable leg with another complete twist (ADD)
    and
    repeat the lengthening of the RIGHT SIDE buss cable leg with another complete twist (REMOVE)

    STEP 3:

    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT DOES NOT MOVE CLOSER TO THE STRING...
    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT DOES NOT CHANGE...
    IF THE BARESHAFT POINT OF IMPACT STAYS OFF TO THE RIGHT...

    THEN WE HAVE A DRAW LENGTH PROBLEM....ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION
    cuz your elbow is too far back
    cuz your elbow is behind your head
    instead of DIRECTLY behind the arrow...in line behind the arrow

    so,
    when the elbow is BEHIND YOUR HEAD,
    your release forearm is pointed OFF TO THE RIGHT,
    and
    your release forearm pulls the bowstring sideways (FAMOUS LEFT PAPER TEAR for right handed shooters)
    and
    when we have a nock left paper tear,
    cuz the bowstring is pulled sideways to the LEFT,
    cuz your forearm is pointed off to the right,
    then...

    the bareshaft goes whereever your forearm is pointed
    and the bareshaft misses sideways to the RIGHT of the string.


    So if STEP 2 (buss cable leg tuning) has ZERO EFFECT,
    we must goto

    STEP 4.

    SHORTEN the bow DL setting.

    Now,
    you might need to shorten the bow DL setting a complete 1/2 inch (new module).

    Now,
    you might need to shorten the bow DL setting less than a complete module replacement...

    maybe you need to shorten the bow DL setting only 1/8th inch....maybe only 1/4-inch.

    HOW do you shorten a bow DL setting in-between module sizes?...less than 1/2-inch?

    FIND the bottom of the buss cable (cable with 3 end loops) and REMOVE twists to INCREASE ATA
    and the bow DL will shorten. As you continue to UNTWIST the buss cable, the ATA continues to grow
    and the bow DL will continue to shorten.

    Keep tweaking the buss cable LONGER, until the bareshaft hits the string, like this...






    So,
    stay at 5 feet
    and fire fletched arrows at the string
    and
    fire bare shaft arrows at the string
    until both fletched and bareshaft hit the string.


    When firing fletched arrows at the string (tweak the sight pins windage)...to adjust
    when firing bareshafts at the string...work the buss cable (bottom of the buss cable to make LARGE adjustments for point of impact....missing RIGHT by inches)
    when firing bareshafts at the string...work the buss cable legs (shorten left side leg when missing right of the string by tiny amounts IF YOU ARE a RH shooter).


    Soon,
    your fletched arrows will be touching the string.

    Soon,
    your bareshafts will also touch the string.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  23. #23
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    I notice that the target with string attached is on an "elevated platform". Is there a certain height that this needs to be to perform this properly?
    OWNER-Busted Nock Bow Tuning
    Perfecting Arrow Flight
    HOGWIRE STRINGS

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by juspassinthru View Post
    I notice that the target with string attached is on an "elevated platform". Is there a certain height that this needs to be to perform this properly?
    I want shooters to shoot with the bow arm LEVEL
    with the arrow LEVEL,
    when at full draw.

    So,
    I want the target,
    I want the middle of the target
    to be at YOUR shoulder height.

    So,
    I want you in THIS shooting position,
    hitting the center of the target.



    So,
    when you are in THIS shooting position,
    then,
    the center of the target should be at your index finger height.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  25. #25

    Micro - Adjusting your draw length....(continued)

    So,
    when you can get a fletched arrow to NAIL a weighted string,
    and
    when you can get a bareshaft to ALSO touch the weighted string...

    when shooting at 5 feet,
    then,
    your draw length is dialed in.

    Single cam bow,
    twin cam bow,
    hybrid cam bow...

    any bow with a buss cable (cable with 3 end loops, where two of the loops attach to the top axle),
    you can tweak the draw length...

    by shortening or lengthening the buss cable (add or remove twists at the bottom of the buss cable).


    Single cam bow,
    twin cam bow,
    hybrid cam bow,
    binary cam bow...

    you can also adjust the bow DL setting, by ADDING/REMOVING twists from the bowstring itself
    (add/remove twists from both ends to keep the peep sight pointed dead straight ahead).


    The key thing to remember
    is that when you ADJUST the bow DL setting,
    keep the bow arm elbow bend EXACTLY the same as before,
    cuz we are trying to make the ELBOW (release arm side)
    SWING AROUND YOUR SHOULDER, like a door hinge.

    This will ONLY happen,
    if you keep the FRONT HALF of your body (bow arm half)
    exactly the SAME as before (bow arm elbow bend).
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

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