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Thread: Gold Tip Kinetic Pros for field/Fita ?

  1. #1

    Gold Tip Kinetic Pros for field/Fita ?

    I am sure this has been talked about but i can not find anything on this matter kinetic pros for a field round i here good things and bad things just looking for some people that have shot these and some that do shoot them and why you do and why you dont shoot these arrows i know jesse for a short time shot these but switched to ultralight pro before he left gold tip I know its jesse he can shoot amazing scores with wood arrows but he must have saw something or lack of to change.Just looking for some input i am 26.5 " draw
    Shooting 58 pounds.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wilmington Il
    Posts
    3,259
    I shoot them for hunting..they are on the heavy side...I shoot Ultralight pros for field...I shoot firenock inserts and tips and vanes on my Kinetics..
    13 PSE Omen Max 27" DL 70#
    08 PSE Money Maker X LF # 70 27"DL
    07 PSE X-Force HF 6 #70 26"DL
    Vortex Razor 10x42
    GT Ultra light pro 300-400 GT Pro X-Cutter GT Kinetic XT 300

  3. #3
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  4. #4
    i know a lot of people that shoot them for field
    PSE STAFF SHOOTER
    BEE STINGER STAFF SHOOTER
    SHREWD STAFF SHOOTER

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    God's country
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    1,329
    Here are some recommendation criteria. i took out the indoor section so it would let me post
    Shaft Recommendations and Tuning Tips for Optimal Performance



    The recommendations that I make for 3-d and target arrows are as follows and for these specific reasons
    ASA-297 FPS Speed limit--I recommend and use the largest diameter shaft I can get to speed(295-297) with at least the middle weight point offered for the shaft
    1. Series 22 --80
    2. X-cutter -90
    3. 30X -100
    4. Triple X --100
    I really do not pay attention to spine other than to make sure I am stiff enough. However, it is important to understand how a stiffer shaft(and a more dynamically consistant shaft) should be treated. It may make your bow show a different tune but what it is really showing you is what is wrong with the bow, how bad the nock travel is. I look at this as an opportunity to fix the problem. I never tune the arrow to the bow but rather tune the bow to the arrow. It is a much better way of doing things and allows you to drive the power stroke of the string right down the dead center of the arrow. If you want to tune the arrow to the bow, you will find one setup that works and it can be a pain in the butt and very expensive. On the other hand if you clean up the nock travel you can shoot virtually any shaft that you would like as long as it is stiff enough.

    For Example: If I have a left tear, it simply tells me that the string has hit the shaft left of center. Small adjustments in the cable load, arrow rest, yokes and even wheel spacing can correct this problem yet ever paper chart says this is a weak arrow....Bull. If you decrease poundage, what are you doing? You are decreasing the load on the cable guard and in effect repositioning the string in relationship to the centerline of the arrow shaft. If you run into any real problems you can’t solve contact me at Gold Tip.

    Back to the arrows. The thing that needs to be understood is what causes a shaft to be unforgiving? It is the planing of the bare shaft that causes an arrow to steer off line, thus the importance of point weight, tune and fletching into the equation.
    1. Point weight--point weight fights off the planing motion of a bare shaft by resisting the arrow steering right or left. If you get the point weight heavy enough, I have seen it almost override anything that is happening behind it. That doesn't mean that you should shoot 250 grain points in everything because that would murder your speed which is also important in the equation of a competive setup. There is a balance in everything. But, heavier point weights and FOC does calm down the planing effects of a bare shaft and broadhead tipped arrow, just make sure the arrow is stiff enough to handle it.
    2. Vane Size--One of the worst things you can do for accuracy is to put too small of a vane on the arrow, especially a stiffer shaft with a lighter point. As you add point weight you can shoot a smaller vane as you are stabilizing the bare shaft more on the front end so less is needed on the rear end. This applies very well to field and FITA archery as you have the requirement of running smaller vanes to eliminate the drag effect that causes the arrow to slow down and increase the amount of wind drift you are getting. In 3-D, bigger vane size does not hurt because you are only shooting 50 yards and the vane will not drag the arrow down like it will as the arrow approaches 60-70 yards. Keep in mind this is a give and take scenario. If you are running a really light arrow, it will slow down sooner and faster than a heavier arrow. It is one of the reasons for field and FITA I recommend the shooter shoot as heavy of an arrow as possible and keep their speed around 270. Weight will help in terms of wind drift, much more than speed at longer distances as the arrow keeps its momentum better. In conclusion, use as much vane as you can up to the point you are losing something.
    3. Tune--With a stiffer shaft you will need to make sure you tune the setup better as a stiffer shaft will want to plane faster than one with a little more flex in it. I prefer a bullet-hole/perfect bare shaft tune with four fletch vanes. I think this provides the optimal correction for any mistake. If you start the shaft out, not in perfect alignment with the power stroke of the string, the vanes are working instantly to correct the planning bare shaft. On the other hand if it starts out very straight, with the power stroke of the string being driven down the center of the arrow, then the vanes will be more efficient in their correction of any mistake you make. The only kicker with four fletch is you really need to shoot a dropaway for clearance. I personally like the Hamskea Versa Rest which allows me to shoot a blade on a limb driven dropaway. With a stiffer shaft it is much more optimal to have a flexible launcher like a spring steel because a stiffer shaft cycles much faster and you can have a lot of collision with the blade or launcher causing clearance and tuning issues.

    IBO: Shoot the biggest diameter shaft you can get up to 5 grain per pound or the speed you want to run....with at least the middle weight point offered for that shaft. You can go less but I usually recommend this as a safe bet. Less point weight is just a little more sensitive to your mistakes but with the right fletching you can mediate some of this sensitivity by keep the back of the arrow in alignment with the front. If the back does not get out of alignment with the front, the front can’t plane.

    Field/FITA Archery: Shoot the Ultralight, Pro Hunter or Kinetic shaft based on the following criteria. Shoot and arrow setup that reduces kiss outs as you will be shooting groups. The new unibushing may be a little better that the pin nock in that equation, but I prefer the pin nock due to the fact I can tell when they are damaged and I like the rigidity of the pin nock system. Heavier points in the 120-170 range will allow you to shoot smaller vanes and reduce glanceouts. Keep in mind the point weight is one of the biggest stabilizing factors with the bare shaft but experiment with vane size for optimal control and forgiveness. In this equation you will want to stay a little closer to so called "optimal spine" as the smaller you go with the shaft the more spine sensitive they seem to be simply because you are presenting a smaller target to the power stroke of the string. It doesn't hurt to have a little flex if you make a mistake and the smaller shaft is hit off center. This seems to be less of an issue as you go up in diameter and you don’t have the necessity of running small vanes. Make sure you have enough spine to handle the point weight though so don’t be afraid to keep the shafts a little shorter to stiffen them. Follow the tuning steps below to make sure you are stiff enough. You want to shoot as heavy of a shaft as possible with at least 100-120 but even more can help. Your optimal speed should be around 270 FPS +/-10. This will be the most efficient long range and wind setup. The heavier the shaft and skinnier the shaft, the better it maintains it's speed and momentum. There is a happy medium in everything and you will find the smaller you go with a shaft the harder they are to tune. Also, for the same reason we shoot large diameter arrows indoors and for 3-D to catch lines, the same holds true for Field and FITA shooting as long as you can minimize wind drift and kiss outs.

    . Powder Tune--Spray foot powder everything to ensure you have 100% clearance. Spray the rest, the bow and the arrow.
    2. Paper Tune-- Paper tells you exactly what is going on with the arrow as it comes out of the bow. I do this at 5-6 yards as that is the distance that arrow seems to be at the apex of the tear and starts to recover after that. I always start paper tuning with at least 4 arrows because I know every arrow is not created equal I do not want to be tuning the bow to a "problem child" but rather to the average. This is much more important as you are shooting arrows on the edge of being weak.
    3. Dynamic Spine Tuning: Papertune each arrow to verify they are all reacting the same way. I typically will shoot every arrow in a row on each vane position looking for the "sweet spot" where they all do exactly the same thing. This is the closest thing to "same hole in the Hooter Shooter" that I have come up with to match arrows. Spine testers, floating, or lining the cock vane up on the seam all sound good but do not correlate to same hole like the dynamic spine test done through paper. One thing I know for sure is broadheads will fly opposite of a paper tear so variation in your tears equal broadheads going in various directions. One of the reasons that mechanical broadheads are more accurate is they do not steer like the fixed blades do. The same can be said for a stiff spined shaft versus a weaker shaft or a shaft with light point versus heavy points. They just need treated differently. The light points, stiff shafts and broadhead tipped shafts all need a little more guidance than their counterpart.
    This is also the perfect test to tell if the shafts you are shooting are too weak. If you are getting an excessive amount of variation and you have a different tear for every rotation then you are most likely pushing those arrows to hard and a stiffer shaft will help your accuracy. It is always a good idea to rotate the nocks until they all react the same but if you get too much variation they will be better being rotated into the same reaction but not same hole accurate. They will also be much more sensitive to changes like different lengths of field points and broadheads if you are right on the edge of too weak.

    4. Bare Shaft/Broadhead Tuning: This is the final step of my tuning and isn’t 100% necessary but I believe it is optimal. Shooting a bare shaft and a fletch shaft to the same impact point at 20 yards just allows you to see if the power stroke of the string is indeed driving dead center of the shaft. It will be easier to accomplish with heavier points and softer shafts but you can bare shaft tune the stiffest, most sensitive setups with just a little more tuning knowledge. This will allow the vanes to be as efficient as possible in correcting your mistakes. You may find that the tune looks like a bullet hole through paper but in fact when you shoot the bare shaft down range it impacts to the right of your fletched arrow or in the case of broadheads they hit to the right of the field point. This just simply tells me I have a little left tear left in the bow and I need to make the corrections for a left tear. Maybe left yoke twists, lessen the load on the cable guard(Tilt Tamer is helpful for this), move the rest in towards the riser or even adjust the wheel spacing slightly. The only thing you have to remember is the bare shaft/broadhead tipped shaft will react opposite of the paper tear, so all you have to do is remember the paper tuning guidelines. Simple things like wrapping electrical tape on the back of the bare shaft to mimic the weight of the vanes and using a target point as long as the broadhead will help make this process more precise because they all affect the reaction of the shaft and how the string loads the arrow. Don’t try the electrical tape without a dropaway as it will contact the rest and cause the bare shaft to hit low every time. Remember the steps of tuning start with powder tuning.

    This should help you understand some of the thought that goes into how I choose and tune my setups. It comes from 30 years of trying everything there is to try and works very well for me and most everyone I recommend it to. There is no such thing as the perfect arrow for everything. It is a give and take scenario. The reason I love Gold Tip shafts so much is that when I take the time to tune everything into the same arrow hole they do not change their tune. One of the things you will see with a lot of shafts on the market is that they will hold a set when bent. Gold Tip shafts will not do that. When a lot of people refer to "shooting the spine out of an arrow”, they are a lot of times in fact, shooting the straightness out of the shaft. This in turn does change the dynamic spine reaction as it presents the back of the arrow to the string in a slightly different place if it is crooked. You can retune them the same way you can tune a set of shafts to shoot better that are not perfectly straight but it is better scenario that you have a shaft that maintains the tune you spent all your time working on. That's the main reason why you see Gold Tip shafts so popular with today’s top archers and bowhunters. They are "Dynamically" more consistent and more reliable than any other shaft on the market today.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SE Ks./ Mo. now Wy.
    Posts
    10,554
    I shoot G/T Ultra Lts.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    616
    Assuming just field, and not full fita, I'd go the kinetics, and make sure they were a good weight. You might do well to consider skinnier shafts from other brands though, the carbon ones or VAPs are a good size for shooting out to 60m and very good value.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Buford, GA
    Posts
    7,066
    You just go the best advice you could get from probably the best source in the world about Gold Tip arrows.....

    Having said that, yes, I think the kinetics would make a good choice for field/FITA, but so do the hunters and ultralights.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    fast schon Suedfrankreich
    Posts
    5,199
    Don't know these shafts , but for FITA and also for Field i wouldn't shoot arrows with an outside diameter so "fat" .

    If you are looking for a less expensive full carbon shaft , you can use Eastons Carbon One or the Carbon Injexion , if you want it better go with an
    ACG , if you have enough money , spend it for A/C Pro Field or even X10 Protours .
    Pearson Advantage's , Pearson MarXman , Pearson MX2 , Viper , Spot Hogg , TT , CarbonTech , Shibuya , Carter , DS-Archery , Vapor Trail , Leica , Kahles , Sauer , Remington and more ....
    Mein Motto : "Was kuemmert es die Eiche wenn sich ein Schwein dran reibt " und mein Lieblingssong is von Westernhagen

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Columbiaville, MI
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    138
    TIM's THe Man
    Black MONSTER 7
    70 lb 28" 314 fps Green hoyt PRO Comp xl 50/60 Called THE GRINCH For Spots 2013 MI. S.V.A.A. 1ST. Place 420 Champion

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    tarrytown new york
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    Thank you Tim for the great info

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    5,225
    No better advise about arrows than from Tim. I'm shooting Kinetic 500's cut just in front of the rest for feild/fita. 100 grn points, 45lbs dw.

  16. #16
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    4,443

    Gold Tip Kinetic Pros for field/Fita ?

    As info good luck finding Kinetics in the Pro category. They are only available as XT versions anymore.
    Hoyt Spyder Turbo #3 RKT 29"
    Gold Tip Velocity Pro 300
    Black Gold Ascent Single Pin
    Scott Longhorn III and Carter Like Mike releases
    Grim Reaper Broadheads

  18. #18
    They have the pros as a option in the 2013 catalog

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    4,443

    Gold Tip Kinetic Pros for field/Fita ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bassbusta01 View Post
    They have the pros as a option in the 2013 catalog
    Right but try to find them. I called GT and they are discontinuing the Pro line of Kinetics. They are still listed in catalogs as an option but aren't available.
    Hoyt Spyder Turbo #3 RKT 29"
    Gold Tip Velocity Pro 300
    Black Gold Ascent Single Pin
    Scott Longhorn III and Carter Like Mike releases
    Grim Reaper Broadheads

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    God's country
    Posts
    1,329
    There are 300 Pro Kinetics available. The 400's are few and far between and the 500's nonexistent. The XT's however are weight sorted to +/- .5 grains so man yare using the XT's. Pro Hunters and Ultralight Pros are usually what are shooters are choosing. They are using them with 120-170 grain points. Wind drift is about mass weight

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