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Thread: End cap issue

  1. #1
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    End cap issue

    While inspecting my Black Eagle II that I have just received noticed the upper power limb (end near limb bolt) was riding on top of the lip of the end cap, let off some weight removed string then could slide end cap into proper position however when restrung and returning weight on bow the end cap ''slips'' back underneath the end of power limb. Tried this a few times with the same result as I haven't been able to tear down any further yet ( working 12 hour shifts all weekend) to see if I could find the reason for this. Anyone have any ideas? The slot that I can see on underside of endcap looks like it should have room to slide & stay outside of limb but it slips underneath. Bottom limb/cap works as it should throughout adj. range but there is definitely an issue with top. Any help appreciated.



  2. #2
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    The problem is well documented through all the Oneida bows. All of them have the issue of a high degree of angle for a short power limb. As the downward force is applied to the limb at the back from the outboard it pushes the power limb forward. On the older bows this force over time breaks the pins off the front of the plastic pivots under the power limb and on the newer design with the limb cups (End caps) it pushes the limb forward which causes the cap to be pushed down, Oneidas resolve is to put a double sided tape in the cup to keep it from being pushed down. Works most of the time unless they have been disassembled in which case new tape is needed. There are two other companies that make a special limb cup that captures the end of the power limb and does not allow it to move forward. One is a copy of Oneidas cup and has a extra part machined on the end to capture the limb. The other is from GCA and is a bit more stylish than the other and the weight bolt rides on top of the limb cup where the Oneida copy has the limb bolt stay on the limb. Both would seem to accomplish the task. Folks on here would be able to direct you to both suppliers. You could also call CPO and have the proper tape sent to you for less cost than the aftermarket parts.

  3. #3
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    That makes sense to me, you think if I applied a 3M two sided tape that it would work just as well? You guys here on this forum are a great bunch and I thank you for the help!

  4. #4
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    I had the same problem with my black eagle. I have the new oneida limb cups which are plastic and have no tape that holds them on. The problem turned out to be the paint on the riser was a little too thick so a little file work on the riser to remove some paint and the problem was solved.

  5. #5
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    Yep, that is one of the only reoccurring issues that you find much in the CP Oneida line.. The infamous limb popping out of the cap.
    Oneida Black Eagle ESC 65lbs/28DL, Steelforce Phathead 125

    2009-2010 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team"The Autumn Assassins"
    2010-2011 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team "The Ridgetop Warriors"

  6. #6
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    As Bob stated, there are two styles of aftermaket parts available. American Eagle (Joe) makes an endcap with an additional Lip tha allows the limb to function as needed, but doesn't allow it to pop out over the cap.

    The GCA model (BFW Pocket) is more of a limb-pocket that encloses the end of the power limb and is held down by direct pressure from the limb bolt.

    Both models are an upgrade from the OEM end caps that come on CPO bows and both work.

    The GCA models change the overall appearence of the bow somewhat (looks modern, but different), while the AM-Eagle model looks more like the original appearance on the finished bow, the choice comes down to personal taste and which styling suits your eye.


    EA Archery Solutions have a limb pocket that is available also, but I haven't had a chance to see one first had yet and can't give a first hand opinion for that model yet. I am testing a bowfishing bow next month from EA Archery Solutions (Cormorant), I will have it for two weeks and it has the limb pockets on it. I should know much more about them at that time.
    Oneida Black Eagle ESC 65lbs/28DL, Steelforce Phathead 125

    2009-2010 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team"The Autumn Assassins"
    2010-2011 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team "The Ridgetop Warriors"

  7. #7
    I use the American eagle style end cap as it does not require a spacer on the limb bolt like the GCA cap. If you don't put the spacer in the GCA cap you can actually over tighten the limbs and create more poundage than the limbs are rated for. I have personally used 8 sets of the American Eagle caps and will put them on any new bows I buy. I have also installed them on more than 20 bows for my friends and fellow bow fishermen. Zero complaints and zero failures. It is more than just the tape that fails on the plastic caps, they will actually warp and flex under pressure. The aluminum AE caps solve this and look great IMO.here are some pics of them on some of my bows.





  8. #8
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    Skippy, can you explain to me why a "spacer" would be needed to not over tighten as both cups have a flat on the bottom which will contact the riser before that would happen?

  9. #9
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    Wow, great pics and its good to have quality options, changed mind on tape think I will opt for an upgrade. Now witch one? lol! Any pic of GCA on a bow? What price range are the American Eagle cups?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHERRY99 View Post
    Wow, great pics and its good to have quality options, changed mind on tape think I will opt for an upgrade. Now witch one? lol! Any pic of GCA on a bow? What price range are the American Eagle cups?
    Found these
    Hope it helps

    Greg


    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...geExtreme1.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...geExtreme4.jpg
    Monster Bows Phoenix H2O Fall
    Monster Bows Phoenix Black Beauty
    JeffPaHunterized LFM, AF X80
    5150 Bows / Gulf Coast Archery, "Accuracy kills every time. Everything else is just numbers, Mike Schuch, MBI"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenesisAlpha View Post
    Nice looking cups as I stated. Is he shipping on order or do you have to wait? Also looking at the cup with the "M" for monster is there other parts shipped to address the fact there are no bosses on a monster riser to pivot on? I know it can be done as the original risers had spacers held in by machine screws and used Oneida cups. Would help as I can see many would order. Also nice to see the addition of the dampeners to isolate the cup from the limbs.
    BOB

    (4) 5/16-24 bolts are supplied to be installed top & bottom for limb pocket to pivot on, so all needed is a 5/16-24 tap (NO drilling required) that you run straight through, run bolts through, snug up & install limb pockets & rebuild !! Have them on both of my Monsters. You will have contact Rich on availability I've had them on the my Monsters for a while.
    Hope it helps
    Greg





    Original Monster Pockets



    New GCA's On Monster #2


    Monster Bows Phoenix H2O Fall
    Monster Bows Phoenix Black Beauty
    JeffPaHunterized LFM, AF X80
    5150 Bows / Gulf Coast Archery, "Accuracy kills every time. Everything else is just numbers, Mike Schuch, MBI"

  12. #12
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    I use the American Eagle end caps on my Oneida bows, and they have performed flawlessly in every situation. A marked improvement over the OEM caps. The photos clearly show the differences from the OEM end caps.


    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2008 Diamond Black Ice @ 65#'s/ C.P. Oneida Extreme Eagle, Easton Axis ST 340,
    www.americaneaglebows.net

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenesisAlpha View Post
    Skippy, can you explain to me why a "spacer" would be needed to not over tighten as both cups have a flat on the bottom which will contact the riser before that would happen?
    It is my understanding that the GCA end cap needed something to support the open area on the bottom under the limb bolt.
    I was told today that they used to sell with a small bushing to keep the limb bolts from being over tightened.
    I was told if not the limb bolts can be over tightened. Hope this helps.
    AMERICAN EAGLE BOWS

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Eagle View Post
    It is my understanding that the GCA end cap needed something to support the open area on the bottom under the limb bolt.
    I was told today that they used to sell with a small bushing to keep the limb bolts from being over tightened.
    I was told if not the limb bolts can be over tightened. Hope this helps.
    Your right Joe

    This is from post on GCA

    Hey guys,

    I was hoping Justin, Duck or Richard could help me with a quick question(s).

    I have purchased a new set of BFW limb pockets from another member, he never got around to installing them on his bow so the pockets are still new.

    I am going to put them on the Black Eagle that I am bowfishing with, it has Area 5150 Power and Outboard limbs (Size 50/70). Someone told me that i will need a set of spacers or inserts (that go behind the limbs) from 5150 to complete the installation. Is that correct? If so, how much are these spacers and can I order just the spacers/inserts from area 5150? Also are these limb-specific or will one size fit all?


    I love the looks of the BFW pockets and can't wait to try the out.


    i'm to send "both" spacers & "0" rings......................... .............................j ust in case *


    Sounds like Boar is hooking you up. Basically, the bottom of the pocket is open, unlike the original factory cup. Because of this, you can actually overtighten the limb bolts and exceed the ratings on your limbs, which is NOT a good thing! To help out, we've got spacers that go between the limb and the riser on the limb bolt, so you can actually tighten the pocket all the way down against it if you want and not overstress your limbs.

    They can be installed without the spacers, just keep this in mind when you're setting your bow weight.

    Nice to see you around, RW!

    Justin



    Just give Rich a call if you have any questions or concerns about them. Either way you have options.
    Monster Bows Phoenix H2O Fall
    Monster Bows Phoenix Black Beauty
    JeffPaHunterized LFM, AF X80
    5150 Bows / Gulf Coast Archery, "Accuracy kills every time. Everything else is just numbers, Mike Schuch, MBI"

  15. #15
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    I made these end caps on our cnc machine. Picked them up at the anodizer today. The finish is hardcoat. If interested shoot me a pm.
    AMERICAN EAGLE BOWS

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gshed View Post
    Your right Joe

    This is from post on GCA

    Hey guys,

    I was hoping Justin, Duck or Richard could help me with a quick question(s).

    I have purchased a new set of BFW limb pockets from another member, he never got around to installing them on his bow so the pockets are still new.

    I am going to put them on the Black Eagle that I am bowfishing with, it has Area 5150 Power and Outboard limbs (Size 50/70). Someone told me that i will need a set of spacers or inserts (that go behind the limbs) from 5150 to complete the installation. Is that correct? If so, how much are these spacers and can I order just the spacers/inserts from area 5150? Also are these limb-specific or will one size fit all?


    I love the looks of the BFW pockets and can't wait to try the out.


    i'm to send "both" spacers & "0" rings......................... .............................j ust in case *


    Sounds like Boar is hooking you up. Basically, the bottom of the pocket is open, unlike the original factory cup. Because of this, you can actually overtighten the limb bolts and exceed the ratings on your limbs, which is NOT a good thing! To help out, we've got spacers that go between the limb and the riser on the limb bolt, so you can actually tighten the pocket all the way down against it if you want and not overstress your limbs.

    They can be installed without the spacers, just keep this in mind when you're setting your bow weight.

    Nice to see you around, RW!

    Justin



    Just give Rich a call if you have any questions or concerns about them. Either way you have options.
    ^^ Hahaha, that is a post I made on the GCA forum.
    Oneida Black Eagle ESC 65lbs/28DL, Steelforce Phathead 125

    2009-2010 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team"The Autumn Assassins"
    2010-2011 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team "The Ridgetop Warriors"

  17. #17
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    Here are some of the GCA (BFW Pockets) on one of my bows (Modified Black Eagle) .






    Oneida Black Eagle ESC 65lbs/28DL, Steelforce Phathead 125

    2009-2010 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team"The Autumn Assassins"
    2010-2011 ArcheryTalk Deer Contest Champion team "The Ridgetop Warriors"

  18. #18
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    I know the AE cups are open in the front bottom also. I do have a set here on a stealth and I will check to see if they also can be over tightened. If I can I will get a set from Richard and test them both side by side and give results. Even if the need on the GCA one is just a spacer there is also the fact they have the dampening system in their cups which the AE does not have. Seems like an upgrade to me. gshed can I get a set of 5150 cups from you?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightWing View Post
    Here are some of the GCA (BFW Pockets) on one of my bows (Modified Black Eagle) .






    Sweet Rig!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gshed View Post
    BOB

    (4) 5/16-24 bolts are supplied to be installed top & bottom for limb pocket to pivot on, so all needed is a 5/16-24 tap (NO drilling required) that you run straight through, run bolts through, snug up & install limb pockets & rebuild !! Have them on both of my Monsters. You will have contact Rich on availability I've had them on the my Monsters for a while.
    Hope it helps
    Greg





    Original Monster Pockets



    New GCA's On Monster #2


    That looks pretty good but I have an idea related back to what Mike did on the riser for the original Phoenix. I can machine on my small lathe the fittings that would have a smaller machine bolt that would be counter sunk into the boss so it would have a much smoother look. I do have a bit of time on my hands a some machines to do the work.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Eagle View Post
    I made these end caps on our cnc machine. Picked them up at the anodizer today. The finish is hardcoat. If interested shoot me a pm.
    Contacted Joe and ordered a set of these ( almost all sold already! ). Read many positive reviews and these should be a perfect fix. Very informative man and enjoyed talking to him, thanks Joe!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CHERRY99 View Post
    Contacted Joe and ordered a set of these ( almost all sold already! ). Read many positive reviews and these should be a perfect fix. Very informative man and enjoyed talking to him, thanks Joe!
    Good call

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHERRY99 View Post
    Contacted Joe and ordered a set of these ( almost all sold already! ). Read many positive reviews and these should be a perfect fix. Very informative man and enjoyed talking to him, thanks Joe!
    Your welcome Al, was good talking with you also. Nice to hear you read some of the many reviews of those who have purchased and use American Eagle Bow Quality End Caps. There are pictures of many lever action bows here on AT as well as over to Bowfishing Country and americaneaglebows.com. Anyone interested in purchasing a set of our end caps can go to these websites and see what others say about our products and services.
    AMERICAN EAGLE BOWS

  24. #24
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    Gshed, here is a picture of Phoenix Number 1, you can see the machined bosses.


  25. #25
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    Another view of a more simple version and the bow it went on.




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