August 22nd, 2013, 09:28 AM
Parallax aiming, No more yardage judgement
20y of no yardage estimation!
So I have been reading a lot about the parallax associated with archery and it peaked my interest. This thread from The Hood back in 2004 http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=50250 has been of particular interest.
I have been using one pin at 30y for a while now with plenty of success. For my setup, POI is 3" high at 20y and 11" low at 40y. This is easy enough to compensate for and pretty easy to do so long as you know the yardage.
I used the equivalent of Range Cards in my stands to know all yardages of "stand-out" objects around me. It worked well enough, but if I forgot the card or rangefinder, I had to guess.
So, yesterday I decided to play with parallax. I ran some numbers through OT!2 and came up with using my 50y setting on my HHA. According to the numbers, it would give me the "flattest" possible trajectory from 20y to 40y. According to the numbers, by holding 12" low from 20y to 40y, my impact would never vary by more than 3" over 20y.
To confirm, I spent about 2 hours on the range last night. The numbers do not lie. Its incredibly easy to hit a baseball sized target at unknown yardage with this method. It's almost cheating.
The trick was just to set the pin at 50y and hold it 12" low at all ranges. It is actually really easy to figure out how low 12" is at any range (for me). On a deer target, that means aiming about 1/2 of a body width low.
I encourage more people to play with this.
August 22nd, 2013, 09:35 AM
I have played with this some but still doesn't gives me the accuracy I am looking for.
August 22nd, 2013, 10:02 AM
same method is used in high power rifle shooting for hunting. been done for as long as rifles were around
finding the point blank range of the cartridge you're shooting allows you to set your scope to a particular distance that gives POI within about an 8 inch range of the bullets trajectory out to 350 yds, or so. being that a high power's trajectory is much flatter than a arrow,s, it allows you to hold dead on out to that point blank range and for all practical purposes get a killing shot.
it's all about realizing that bullet or arrow in the "boiler room", will put the animal down, period. it's nothing new.
perfectly fine for hunting accuracy, but not for the level of accuracy needed to win 3d shoots, although knowing it's properties does help in respect to yardage estimation for 3d. if your bow and sights are set up to keep the majority of distances inside that flatter portion of parallax, your estimation inaccuracies(within reason), will be less detrimental to your score.
August 22nd, 2013, 10:16 AM
I just read that hood article yesterday....should come with a warning....like watching "the twilight zone"...just enough info to make you feel it is real....and just enough to make you know you are in another time and place. Too much clear info on AT as ron w gave, to make any suggestion about going to the "twilight zone" not worth it.
As an independent contractor I meet many different types of people...not all learn alike. OP this may work for you....but to my mind if I can figure in my head to hold 12" low and pick an imaginary spot....why can't I also learn to judge yardage....and hold an actual sight pin on spot....especially with the fudge factor you are suggesting. There is an old adage "aim small, hit small" and personally I do not like the concept of thinking a pie plate is good enough. But if this method help you....wish you the best. This method does not help my minds way of learning and shooting at all.
August 22nd, 2013, 10:24 AM
Parallax aiming, No more yardage judgement
Nothing new read this article by Darin really good explanation and examples how it works.
Really good photos of aiming points...
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Last edited by ex-wolverine; August 22nd, 2013 at 10:28 AM.
August 22nd, 2013, 10:31 AM
I've never seen any baseball sized 12 rings at 3D shoots.
August 22nd, 2013, 10:49 AM
ex-wolverine....thanks for sharing that link. Much better source of information than going to the twilight zone via the "hood link" above. Concept is still not for me....but now I totally understand the theory.
Actually had this issue in setting up a super high mass arrow last fall....and couldn't understand why my field studies were showing more arrow drop than my archers advantage program showed the actual "physics" of drop was. I was using the same pin for a 400 grain arrow and a 692 grain arrow to gauge drop and finally figured out that was a poor test method because both arrows were at a different point in trajectory curve. Learned a lot about trajectory from that test. Learning is always a good thing.
August 22nd, 2013, 11:18 AM
Originally Posted by FMJ500
Darin used to be a Hoyt engineer and is one sharp cookie ..I like his articles as he put them in layman's terms
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August 22nd, 2013, 11:54 AM
X2!!! Darin writes some very good and in depth articles you can understand
August 22nd, 2013, 12:10 PM
I'm not about to bash this system. I've never tried it, but I can't see it working for me. If it works for you, I'm happy with it. It's just that my needs are far different.
For my local hunting (from a ground blind) it's deer, turkey, javelinas, and hogs. I already know the distance to prominent landmarks. That's easier than picturing a 12" low hold on the different critters.
Planning on making another African trip about a year from now. Again from fixed blinds. I may very well shoot at critters that range form 35 pounds to over a thousand pounds. I'm not mentally agile enough to want to hold off the intended point of impact.
Everybody's needs differ -- I realize that. It's just that, for me, it's seems easier to remember the distance of key landmarks than to remember where 12" low would be.
If it works for you, that makes me happy. I just don't see it working for me. I want my arrow to impact wherever the pin was at the loose.
Best of luck to each of you.
August 22nd, 2013, 01:13 PM
I suppose that I should have stated that this was for hunting purposes and not 3D. Of course, it is not used for drilling the 12 ring on a Mosquito target at 25y. On a deer, aiming half the body height below works for me. On a Rhinehart, it'll stay in the 10 ring out to 40y though.
To me it is a newer concept in archery and know it has been around for a while in firearms.
Ex-wolverine, I just read the "Trick-pin" article. This is the way I was doing it. It works great for me.
FMJ500, the thread by Hood took a while to figure out what in world he was talking about, but did give me a sense of accomplishment when I did.
August 22nd, 2013, 01:41 PM
it's the exact same concept Greg,
we all been doing it, without our knowing it as,.... "parallax aiming". anytime the guys with multi-pin sights "pin gap" a shot, that's what they're actually doing and any time the single pin guys set their pin for 25 yards because the deer come in, at anywhere from 20 to 30 yards, that's what they're doing, by holding high or low on the deer. the more technical use for 3d just refines that sight setting to work within a smaller amount of parallax, that places the POI in a range where a long estimation will catch the top of the 12 ring and a short estimation will catch the bottom of it, if the hold is centered in the 12. that distance in vertical "parallax",... from top to bottom of the 12 ring.... amounts to about 8 or 10 yards error in estimation, under about 45 yards with a fast bow and light arrows. so you can see that if used correctly, it is a great advantage to the 3d shooter ... and of little, if any, significance to the hunter, until yardage gets pretty far out, like for spot and stalk elk hunting or speed goat hunting, where shots can get long. but even there, there are trade offs as usual. as hunting shots get longer, trajectory gets more rainbow shaped and then parallax aiming becomes less efficient. so actually, in both cases, the long stuff is still better left to accurate yardage estimation....just where good estimation gets the most difficult....ie..., the trade-off..