November 8th, 2013, 06:07 AM
Bow length and limb length.
In another thread the bare bones of a decent discussion was forming about limb and bow lengths, what the theory is and what the real world effects are to different archers.
GT had implied that japan were making good use of the new extra short limbs now available for short draw shooters from hoyt.
I had asked what configuration these were being used in, ie were they being used with 25" risers or 23" risers and what differences were the archers finding.
The thread was locked before GT could respond but I was asked about my own experience which I'd said had seen little to no difference between a 66" and a 68" bow so In an atempt to have a discussion about archery I hope this starts the ball rolling.
I'm a fita target archer, I rarely shoot field but have never shot 3d, as such I only need sufficient speed to reach distance with a given sight mark.
I shot a 66" bow for two years and followed the advice of Border archery to set it up and it consisted of
Inno cxt with short hex 5's 38lb wound up to give 40lb OTF 14 strand fast flight string with a 7 1/2" brace.
I was in need of new limbs (but not borders) and it was suggested I try a 68" bow, everybody was raving about the inno limbs so I took the plunge and ordered a set of mediums.
I was told by all that longer bows are slower, innos are slower than hex 5's that new 16 strand string will be slower raising the brace height will rob you of speed.
So I prepared to take a bit of a hit in sight marks, the new set up consisted of
Inno cxt with medium inno primes 40lb giving 40lb OTF 16 strand fast flight string with 8 1/2" brace
I didn't chrono either set up but set out using the same sightmarks as a starting point and at 90m there was a slight difference in favour of the innos (nothing worth writing home about) and all the others were the same.
I kept the same arrows, clicker position, tiller and nocking point and my tecnique didn't change, I've been shooting the same set up for two years now.
My groups were better from the start as well and they felt better to shoot.
I don't generally use groups or scores as a means of judging performance as new kit does generally give a temporary boost but it's always reassuring that there's no drop.
The sightmarks however seem to fly in the face of conventional wisdom.
What experiences have others have changing bow size?
Archery research AR35 limbs or limb needed 26/277.
November 8th, 2013, 10:38 AM
The general idea is the less moving mass the more performance. Long riser short limbs.
I have not done any testing, can't give you first Hand experience.
I have however noticed at my draw length using 4 different sets of limbs with different weight on a 68" bow all gave me the same sight mark at 18 meters. But stepping out to 30m and 50m showed massive differences. Up to 24" difference in impact place. Speed will show up more at longer ranges.
Also, I have recently switched from a 68" to 70" bow and again my 18m sight mark did not change. Haven't taken it out to the field yet, soon.
27" Inno Max & Medium Border Hex 6, BB2.
November 8th, 2013, 12:07 PM
The only conclusion I can give for the "sight mark" consistency you some how have managed to match the energy being put into the arrow and speed.
You changed a lot more than 2 parameters with your "test" so it would be hard to judge the results as far as long/medium/short.
If you had used the exact same construction/design limbs, and only went to a medium limb with the same weight OTF.
Since the material, recurve, and construction is different, you can't make the comparison fairly.
November 8th, 2013, 12:11 PM
Also what's your draw length? and how well are your arrows tuned? How well were they tuned before?
An arrow that is not flying well (too stiff or too weak) will lose a lot of speed. Is it possible that they were a little out of tune with your old system and also less experience might have been resulting in less consistent releases. Switching to the new system maybe your arrows are more in tune, and your release has gotten more consistent resulting in better arrow flight, and reclaiming the few FPS you might have lost with all the other changes?
November 8th, 2013, 12:47 PM
Yes I had changed more than two parameters but every one of the changes should have brought worse sight marks and yet even collectively they were no different, there may well be some scientific explanation but I don't shoot in a lab.
I'm not looking for a reason as to why my own experiences didn't meet with conventional wisdom, I'm happy to accept that what should have been the faster bow just wasn't for me.
My draw at the time was 27 1/2" and the fletched and unfletched grouped at 30m with both sets.
This is why I was asking for real world experience over conventional wisdom.
It may well be the 66" bow was faster but the difference was so small it had no actual effect, I find the string angle of the 68" easier on my fingers and the draw somehow easier throughout.
I have shot 66" innos and the draw was very similar to the Borders so there were benefits that I could actually feel by moving up a size but all of the negative aspects were never felt.
This to me is of far more value than believing that a 66" bow is faster because it has less mass to move, which maybe true but I'd only take that speed if the compromise was worth it and for fita target I'm not sure it is.
To put it another way, my work van will quite happily take a full bathroom suite and travel at 70mph, which is the speed limit.
I could buy a smaller van that would be faster (a feature I would never be able to use) but I'd be compromised on the capacity.
Archery research AR35 limbs or limb needed 26/277.
November 8th, 2013, 01:33 PM
Another thing for consideration is string contact with chest protector. More contact with long limb vs short limb do to string angle. String contact on an abrasive chest protector scrubs off speed I don't get this on my hunting setup a 25" GM4td with Xshort limbs at 64" with hunting attire on. With long limbs on a 25" riser my sight mark change is changed more do to contact than medium limbs.
Noticing string wear below my serving from contact with CP I sewed on a leather patch on contact area of CP, this translated to a 8" change in point of impact at 18mtr. With a large chest and 28 5/8 draw I may have better consistency with shorter limbs because of the way I am built.