June 2nd, 2003, 11:56 PM
Oneida vs. Discovery bows
How would you guys compare the Oneida bows to the Discovery bows? They are simular, but have their differences.
Both of them are kinda high priced, but most of the newer bows are on the high end of the spectrum when it comes to cost. Also, the Discovery bows are difficult to find dealers for, in my area.
Your opinions and experience is appreciated.
Thank you, Bowhunter57
Varmint Population Control Specialist
June 3rd, 2003, 11:02 AM
ONEIDA ALL THE WAY
i shoot the black eagle from oneida and love it. i have seen the discoverys and have shot them and they are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW, and they are junk, thats all there is to it. i woudlnt even use it for carpshooting. honest truth.
SHAKE AND BAKE BOYS, I THINK WE GOT A BBQ
MARTIN PROUD! M4L!
June 3rd, 2003, 11:19 AM
well when compairing the oneida line and the discovery line you are not comparing apples to apples-more like comparing apples to a pile of steaming dog sh--: i have shot the discovery and it is ok: no power/it is louder and slower then any line of the oneida
Also when the new owner of Oneida bought out the company-he didnt buy the discovery rights (for a reason) also there are no dealers for the discovery (or very few)
also why buy a bow from a guy that was running Oneida into the ground and then ran off leaving the customer and his employes hanging. (i believe it is Loomis-*jack *************** )
if you like something different and you wnat something that is truely smoother then anything else on this planet, look at the Oneida Black Eagle
June 3rd, 2003, 02:35 PM
I can't offer up a comparison because I've yet to shoot, or for that matter seen the Discovery other than on the web.
But the one thing I can personally attest to is;
The NEW C.P. Oneida Company is world apart from it's former in customer service.
C.P. has made a commitment to making themselves available for any customer concerns.
I own a used B.E. that was manufactured by the previous Owner. The bow wouldn't tune. Upon closer examination I was able to determine the upper outboard limb was finished on a bias where it attached to the hinge. This caused a imbalance in the draw cycle and was the culprit for the tuning issue.
Mr. Pollington advised me to send the bow to them and they look it over. Since I was located with-in driving distance I ran the bow up to their shop. Chip (one of the staff shooters) dropped what he was doing and checked the bow over, replaced the defective limbs and paper tuned the bow all under warranty (by the way, since the bow was used, they absolutley had NO obligation to honor the original warranty).
It's now a tack driver and one of the smoothest bows I've ever shot....
Last edited by supa roosta; June 3rd, 2003 at 02:37 PM.
June 3rd, 2003, 04:01 PM
I would agree with both of the above posts. The prior owner did a lot to hurt the company and his employees and it also has been hurting some that buy a used bow and not know what bow they have because of the poor business ethics he had. I bought a bow off eBay it was suppose to be a Lite Force Magnum Model but when it arrived was only a Lite Force. The serial number was checked and it was a 1999 year model and the LF was only made in 1997 supposedly. When I got the bow it had a 1999 serial number being one of the letters ids the year. I was truly disappointed because I was looking for another LFM one for main hunting rig and the other a Back Up and practice Rig. I sold the LF for what I paid for it and the buyer was aware and he was going to use it for bow fishing only which the bow is to be good for. I know of one employee that was in management at the old company in New York and he was give many paychecks that bounced he says 7 so to get his money owed him he had to take it in trade for parts & bows since the company was closed. He treated suppliers the same way get an order and then never pay them for the parts. So he opened the Discovery bow company or should say his son did but he is involved in its running. I doubt that they have any dealers or very few.
I prefer the Oneida brand not dealing with a cable guard and you can change all the parts with limited tools and no real bow press needed. The string is easy and simple to change as is most parts and it is very smooth to draw no hand recoil or shock on release easy to set up and keep in tune. I own three an Aero Force and two Lite Force Magnums currently and all are very nice to shoot and love the way they shoot very accurate and smooth. Customer Service is an important part to the new Owner and is currently working on a model similar to the Black Eagle for bow fishing. Saw it last week at the CPO factory in Marion Michigan while getting some parts and stuff.
You can find some of the Oneida's used on their website from private owners for a good price you just need to know what you are buying. The 2002 and newer is the current versions, 2001 and older Black Eagles might need some upgrades they have made. You can also find some on eBay if you are looking but a new one of ESC Black Eagles with the carbon limbs is very light.
Last edited by AeroEagle1; June 3rd, 2003 at 04:07 PM.
June 3rd, 2003, 09:58 PM
Thank you for your VERY informative replies, gentlemen!
It sounds like an Oneida Black Eagle is what I'm going to be shopping for, since you fine folks have educated me on some very important issues.
Thank you, again!
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
Varmint Population Control Specialist
June 3rd, 2003, 10:43 PM
Wish i would have kept mine now that I know they stand behind their stuff better. I sent in for a new cam cause the draw was a shade too long and all I got was a add for their new bows back. Made me mad and I couldn't tune it so I pawned it. It shot field points great and was really smooth. Just shot bh like crap. I looked for an arrow/bh combo for 3 months after I pawned it. Never did figure out where it sent that arrow to.
If I can get my hands on a newer one some day I will definately be shooting it. They are smooth. even the old ones.
June 4th, 2003, 10:34 AM
Actually, the company name is Firebrand and Discovery is one of their models. I own the Intensity and I'm pretty happy with the bow. I've had no problem at all with customer service. Firebrand gives you a 10 day trial period on their bows if you're worried about liking the bow. The thing I really like about it is that I can do any of the tuning/setup on the bow myself.
I haven't shot an Oneida, but I can say that my Intensity is very smooth and quiet. The 90% letoff (adjustable to your taste) makes it very easy to hold on target.
You have to shoot what you like, but don't base a decision on brand war crusaders.
June 4th, 2003, 12:06 PM
I am just stating the facts about the owner and father and their business ethics. Let me add that I had an original Discovery on order when it was an Oneida Model. I placed the order in June of the year that they were bring it out they told me that it would be in my hands by September it was for a nephew. I never heard that there was delays in getting the R&D completed and having the parts made to be able to send the bows out. I contacted them during September and ask when they were planning on shipping it out and never heard anything until October when I cancelled my order only to learn that they were having problems getting the parts since they won't paying their suppliers. I got my refund on my credit card and bought an Oneida Aero Force SS so that my nephew could hunt that year. That was the year that they ran Oneida Bow Company into the ground. So as for customer service I never heard anything that there was a delay after placing an order 3 months in advance of it coming out. Maybe they now understand that customer service is an important part but when they use old and outdated parts to get a bow out that is not good business nor is not keeping customers informed as to the status of a bow they have on order. So from my experience they don't know what customer service is. Since that is all I can use to judge a company I would not waste my time or money to a company is only concerned about themselves and not their product, customer's or employees like the new Owner of C.P. Oneida he has a write up in the May issue of "Inside Archery" "C.P. Oneida Eagle's Claude Pollington An Honest Man". He has the business ethics and customer service that makes a company a very good one to deal with. I can't say that about the previous owner all he needed to do was communicate that the bow was delayed and when it was going to be available with a letter or email he never did, maybe he was trying to figure out how to walk any from Oneida with the Discovery Model and dump the Oneida Company. Since that is all I can base my experiences on I think you might want to think twice before dealing with the previous owner and now involved with Firebrand Company.
June 4th, 2003, 02:59 PM
Sorry you had problems. All I can say is that I have had no problems at all with Firebrand. You can tell it's a small shop, but that's not always a bad thing. It's hard to tell what was going on behind the scenes with Oneida. Many times you get advice from advisers and lawyers that turns out to not be what you should have done.
June 4th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Oneida is a small shop also but has a dealer network and they are trying to rebuild this because of the damage done prior to C.P. buying the company. They are making it work but it is hard when some have seen what was the past.
The Oneida Brand Bows are very simple to set up and work on it just looks more complicated than it is. They are currently testing a bow for bow fishing. They are a small company but working on getting a bigger market share by quality and great customer service.
They now have a kids bow available called the hawk which is similar to the Black Eagle but just shorter draw length and less draw weight for kids to be able to shoot.
It is a personal choice what works for you... It always is a choice some look at it and have doubts while others love them. You just have to Shoot an Oneida to see just what they are all about...
June 4th, 2003, 10:48 PM
I like my Intensity, but my next bow will be a Bowtech because I feel the need. The need for speed. I have a short draw length (26") and Bowtech will get me closest to that magical 300fps.
Hopefully someday I'll get to try an Oneida.
AeroEagle1 - Hey, maybe you'll know. The guys at the archery club were calling my bow a Rock 'n Roll bow. I didn't get it, but aparently Ted Nugent shoots or used to shoot something like the Firebrand. But the model they said wasn't Oneida. Is there another bow manufacturer out there similar to Oneida / Firebrand. (I know it kills you to see both companies in the same sentence ;-)
June 5th, 2003, 03:46 PM
Mr. Nugent shot an Oneida Bow it was an early model of the Oneidas' he had a Nugent model for a year or two which was in the Zebra Stripe pattern. There is one but LH for sale on eBay currently. He has killed a large Bear here in Michigan years back with an Oneida again not sure of the Model. He is close friends with the New Owner of Oneida Claude Pollington. That is how Mr. Pollington got his first Oneida. Mr. Nugent just got one when he was to visit Mr. Pollington and he shown it to him and Ted gave him it because of the interest Mr. Pollington had in it. Ted likes to get $$$ for what he endorses with his name so far he has had something with Martin, Browning and Renegade bows there was talk that he was going to do it for Oneida but I don't think they could pay him what he wanted for his endorsement. Ted shoots many bows but for the camera he currently uses a Renegade but still has Martins, Brownings and Oneida's also. He hunts Buck Pole Ranch annual which is owned and operated by Mr. Pollington.
Mr. Pollington also makes the Pollington Red Dot Sight Systems.
I have not heard that Ted has shot a Firebrand but you never know.
June 5th, 2003, 10:51 PM
As far as I know he doesn't shoot Firebrand, but they guy probably has a HUGE collection. You never know.
June 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM
naw:::ted doesnt have a firebrand in his collection:::trust me::
he has a tons of bows in the basement but nothing like that bow::::
June 5th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Don't worry, you've already made your point. You don't like Firebrand. I'm pretty happy with mine. Everybody that's shot it so far seems to like it also.
June 6th, 2003, 02:55 PM
You are right on the money, Onieda and Ted had an arrangement around 1990 or so. They produced two "Whackmaster" camo bows. They were the Strike Eagle (thats what he shot the bear with) and the Phantom. They were the same production models offered with a different camo pattern. You can still find a Strike Eagle in the zebra camo from time to time. But there were very few Phantoms made in that camo pattern. I know Ive been looking for one for years. Ted and Oneida parted company when Ted went to Martin and they produced a few bows under his name. Ive been shooting Oneidas since 91 and have known the current owner since then. If you ever watch the Outdoor Channel you can sometimes see Ted hunting at the Buckpole (thats the owners hunting property)
June 7th, 2003, 10:06 AM
I'm a little late to the discussion but here's mt $.02....
The Firebrand bows are all based on a bow made years ago by Oneida called the Kidz Extreme. It was a kids or small frame shooters bow. Oneida explored the idea of a full sized version and actually made them briefly but that was also when the company was barely alive. Claude Pollington bought the company and has been rebuilding the Oneidas reputation as an awesome bow. He really turned the company around. Anyway, for whatever reason, CP let the old owner leave with the Discovery bow.
The previous owner has had a very sketchy, shady past. This is fact. That's my main reason I recommend caution. Other than that, I've heard of many people who shoot the Firebrand bows and like them. A lot of these shooters also own Oneida's. I have been curious about them myself. My suggestion would be to try to find someone in your area that has one and is willing to let you fling a few arrows with it. Go to Firebrands web site and try posting on their forum for local shooters.
I would also recommend you try out an Oneida though. Used ones are pretty easy to find if you want to lower your costs. I'm selling my Pro Eagle, if your interested. I have 5 Oneida's and one needs to go unfortunately. Anyway, if you can't find an Oneida dealer near you, stop by the Oneida site. I'm sure you'll find someone near you if you post there.
June 8th, 2003, 08:44 AM
Thank you, again, gentlemen!
My next bow will be an Oneida Black Eagle. There's just too much "shady" information about the Discovery bows for me to take an interest in them.
Perhaps I'll have the folks at Cabelas in Dundee, Michigan, give me a call when the get a returned Oneida in their Bargan Cave. I don't think it'll be to hard to find a good used one.
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
Varmint Population Control Specialist
June 8th, 2003, 11:06 AM
If your interested in a Black Eagle, I know of 2 sources where you might be able to get a good deal. I heard through a friend that CP Oneida has BE's that are converted Stealths that are discounted because they want to move them. The Stealth is a discontinued model that is virtually identical to the BE except for the cams and timing wheels. Actually, my BE is a converted Stealth. If I remember right, they have the older anodized finish which looks really sweet.
The other source is Eders (not intended to promote another site). They are selling the older grey camo version for $450, I think, which is an awesome deal.
Unless, of course, you really want the Excel Skyline camo. Either way, good luck and congrats on your choice. Feel free to email me if you want more info on the bows. Also you should stop by the Oneida site and use the forum there. Excellent people and info/help for the new Oneida shooter.
CP Oneida Eagle Bows
June 9th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Firebrand vs Oneida Bows
I am a little confused on some of the comments about the previous owners of Oneida....I do believe that they were only new owner for about 5 years?, and before that time is when I think Onieda bows were sinking fast! The Light Force with reduction of moving parts keep the company alive. I am not here to say they did not have there customer service problems...they did. But to say the last ownere ran the company in the ground...do your home work first.
However, I like both bows, I feel that Firebrand bows are much more quieter that Oneida bows, Firebrand just needs to work on there craftsmanship, and overall marketing plan. I am considering buying an Intensity or discovery.
Quick thought on speed.........."speed of sound over 1800 ft/second ----- Speed of the fastest bow today 320-340 fps....
Simple logic-------- silence kills
June 9th, 2003, 02:08 AM
originally posted by coreyford;
" Firebrand just needs to work on there craftsmanship, and overall marketing plan."
Those two tiny factors wouldn't preclude the sale of Oneida to Claude Pollington would it Corey?
Or was it the payless paydays for the Staff and production workers who were left out in the cold?
Couldn't be,,,sounds to much like business as usual...
June 9th, 2003, 08:55 AM
I guess You don't know your Oneida Bows either it was not the Lite Force or even the Lite Force Magnum that has less parts the LF and LFM is the same as the Aero Force parts wise it is just slight shorter overall length and the riser is a cnc machined one not a magnesuim die cast riser. The one that had less parts is the "Black Eagle and the PRO models" which have had some improvements by the new owner to make it quieter and work better with new hinges and some cables. Now with the ESC limbs it is even lighter. If you are going to state information at least know what you are talking about. Since I am not an Oneida Expert just have owned a Aero Force, Lite Force Magnum and a Black Eagle so far I at least know the differences of these bows.
I prefer a company that takes time in Craftsmanship and marketing stratagies with a dealer network that is growing. The new owner I think has only had the company for 4 years also if that long. Please state actual information that you know is accurate since you statements are lacking actual information about the models... Regards,
June 9th, 2003, 09:41 AM
Hey listen, sorry for not getting the details perfect, I currently do not own a firebrand or even an Oneida. I just stated how I viewed the situation.
By the way, I shot the new Black Eagle 2003, still loud when compared to some modern day single cams.
It sound like there is some "bad blood" between the two companys and also it seems like some of the members on this site might be past employees. I am truly sorry if someone was hurt in this Firebrand /Onieda deal.
June 9th, 2003, 06:12 PM
One thing you will find is that most Oneida owners are very loyal and sometimes over-defensive. The over-defensive part comes from frequently being maligned (wrongly) by others. One thing that almost all Oneida owners have developed is an extreme dislike (putting it mildly) for the previous owner who was the one to nearly killed the company. He knowingly shipped bad product, product that wasn't finished through R&D, and exaggreated facts and figures. The craftsmanship and business plan were icing on that cake. Claude Pollington bought the company about 4 yrs ago and has been rebuilding the company and it's reputation since. Yes, the Black Eagle was developed during the last ownership but it has been refined by CP with craftsmanship and some small updates/redesign.
Take a look at the new Oneida's, too. With minimal effort, they can be very quiet. I have a friend who's BE shoots at 293fps and it's not loud at all. I can't say anything towards the Firebrand bows because I haven't been able to shoot one. I have heard from very reputable sources that they can be very nice bows. Just watch your dealings with the company. That's all I would say.
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