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Bear Chrono speeds

41K views 120 replies 76 participants last post by  Ledbeter 
#1 ·
Interested in people's chrono speeds for all models. What have you guys/gals been seeing
 
#41 ·
Agenda 6, 72#, 29", 468 Grn FMJ 340s getting 294fps. I have two string grubs, a tubeless peep, and a D-loop on the string. Whisper freaking quiet.
 
#45 ·
Looks like I need to change arrows to bump up my speed some...

Agenda 6, 55# 27" DL, peep and d-loop, 400 gr Easton arrows with 100 gr fild points...coming in at 258 fps

Open to suggestions...thinking maxima red 250 gr with 100 gr field points and nocturnal lighted nocks
 
#46 ·
That's smokin' for your draw and weight. That 27 inch draw will always kill your speed.
 
#48 ·
Method
68#
28.5"
460gr Axis arrow with FOBs
280+ FPS (lowest was 279, ranged up to 284, average was 281+ after 12 shots, only the 1 lower than 280)
String loop and peep on stock strings
Man I want some new strings
 
#52 ·
Bear did some warranty work on my Motive 6 which resulted in new limbs, string, and cam. The older cam was cutting the string. Anyway they sent it and I had it tuned at 29.5 dl, and the scale indicated that the poundage was 74 to 75lbs. I shot 380 grain blue streak through the pro chrono and was getting 338 fps the same speed I got with my 29inch ~70lb Full Throttle, and I was getting 331fps with 29 inch RPM. I know not a direct comparison, but interesting how few more pounds here and a half inch there can put on similar speeds. Either way the Motive was "only" getting 313 to 320 before.
 
#57 ·
In my sig below
 
#61 ·
Posted in another thread but thought it would be useful here for Agenda owners/comparison:

Below are series of chrono data using various setups. Basically, I tried to work up from my current setup to the IBO spec test to see if numbers would match calculated data (and if Bears IBO speeds are accurate[emoji5] ).

Bow: Agenda 6, 350 advertised IBO, 70# limbs however when fully torqued, they actually measure 73.5#. Draw length is set to Bears module lengths but when measuring ACTUAL draw from deepest part of grip to string plus 1.75" for AMO draw length, Bears draw just over 1" long of module setting draw length. So my 28.5" module setting is actually 29.6" AMO draw. I will refer to module setting draw below for consistentcy.

Setup 1: -- 304 FPS -- 74#, 28.5" draw, 411gr arrow plus dloop, peep, limbsaver String leaches. My stock shooting setup... Baseline.

Setup 2: -- 309 FPS -- 74#, 28.5" draw, 401gr arrow plus dloop, peep, limbsaver String leaches. Slightly lighter arrow; 10gr arrow weight less. +5fps

Setup 3: -- 313 FPS -- 74#, 28.5" draw, 401gr arrow plus dloop, peep, but REMOVED Limbsaver String leaches (44grns total weight off string). Less string weight (-44gr) +4fps

Setup 4: -- 327 FPS -- 74#, 28.5" draw, BUT LIGHT ARROW 350gr plus dloop, peep, WITH Limbsaver String leaches. Very light arrow -61gr from standard; +14 FPS.

Setup 5: -- 343 FPS -- 74#, 30" draw, 350gr arrow, plus dloop, peep, with Limbsaver String leaches. Light arrow plus 30" draw +16fps

Setup 6: -- 347 FPS -- 74#, 30" draw, LIGHT ARROW 350gr plus dloop, peep, NO Limbsaver String leaches. Basically this is IBO setup except with DLoop and Peep. +4fps

Without peep/dLoop, would have been close to 350fps.
 
#62 ·
So bear is inflating there ibo by about 10 fps so the agenda 6 is really a 340 fps bow cause your doing it at 30" module which is really 31" DL so to do real IBo test you need 29" mod settings with 350 grain arrow. I kinda wondered cause my motive ran 1" long too but never got to chrono it. They are still great bows just hate when companies lie just say its 340 fps there's nothing wrong with a 330 or 340 fps bow
 
#65 ·
How are you measuring the draw-length? The whole argument hinges on draw-length being out by an inch, but that depends on how you measure draw-length. bear measures to the front of the riser not to Berger hole plus 1.75in. If you measure to the Berger hole plus 1.75 in you will end up with a dl measurement about 1 in long. This is not how Bear measure their specs for IBO. Bear bows are known to sometimes run about 1/2 an inch long not 1in, a few twists and you can get it all in spec. If it's out by 1 inch when you measure the way bear does at factory then something is wrong. Bear has NOT inflated speeds of the Motive or Agenda that's a proven fact by many here on AT and also companies like hunters friend. In fact you can twist the cables and stay within IBO tolerances and have the bow exceed its IBO rating. Measure the bows dl the same way bear does and re test you will find that the posted IBO ratings are not inflated and that both motive and agenda meet or exceed IBO if not something is out of spec somewhere. Before you can judge a company and say they are inflating IBO ratings you first need to set the bow up to the exact specs and standards that the particular company uses. First find out the exact specs and standards that bear use and set the bow up to those standards then make a fair judgment.
 
#66 ·
Ill have to take your word that that is the way bear does Their DL cause i don't know. But it would only make sense to use the industry standard which is measure to brace then add 1.75. It makes absolute no sense to do it the way your saying other than for soul purpose to give false ibo speed. It stupid for thier customer too cause alot of their customers will know they are 28" DL so they ll set the mod to 28 and never question it then end up selling the bow cause it never feels comfortable and the really struggle to BH or BS tune it. Yes there are a lot of people posting that their bears are hitting ibo but again most are just going with what the module reads not knowing that DL is probably full inch off. I shoot 27.5" draw and with my motive i had to have my modules in 26.5 spot to get me at 27.5. I love bear bows my next bow (Lord willing) Will be a arena 30 i want one bad but im going into it knowing it's probably a 335fps bow not 345 but again its an amazing bow and 335 ain't bad i still want it. But just want bear to be forth right and say its a 335 fps bow. Me and many others will still by it.
 
#67 ·
Feral Buster, not trying to ruffle feathers at all. Great to know on how they measure draw length and I will recheck when I get my bow back from shop.

To tripleb's point though, the fact that there are so many different ways to arrive at a speed rating is, in part, adding to the problem.

I don't feel that I was being judgmental in my approach above, in fact more the opposite: I presented data gathered and measured as accurately as possible (although the bow draw length may need a correction of 1/2" or so). I did not pass judgment on Bear but simply pointed out that IBO has testing tolerances that are more lax than that of ATA.

And this thread is a purely academic endeavor because it will not make anyone shoot better or faster. It's simply to discuss actual speeds vs IBO calculated speeds.

I am curious what your conclusion be from the data above. Again I am not bashing or being argumentive. I am truly interested in your take based on measurements. You've had great input on several threads and I would like to see your input on measurements.

Bow shot close to 347fps at close to 30" and with a few extra pounds draw, which is all within the IBO specs for testing. I measured all parts on string and arrows using reloading scale with accuracy of .1gr and precision of +-.1gr. The speeds were checked with a ProChrono digital chronograph which is supposed to be accurate to <1% of measured speed. Draw weight checked on scale at local dealer, all three pulls measured 73.5-74#.

FWIW, I feel the bow is plenty fast. In my world, if I max a 70# limb and set a module to 30" and bow is close to what's expected for draw length... GREAT! And bear has definitely achieved that in my eyes. If I back the limbs down slightly to 70# and reduce draw slightly, it may be 5-10fps slower but of well. 5ps doesn't make it any less accurate, quiet, lethal or amazingly good looking bow from Bear!
 
#68 ·
Subwrx300 may I say straight off the bat I'm sorry if I came across with an attitude, words on a screen do little to convey someone's real intent. I'd like to say that your test was very thorough and detailed and you went to a lot of trouble for the benifit of the rest of us here on AT, thank you.

My argument is that Bear certainly have not inflated the speeds of either motive or agenda. If you were to say the speeds of the 2012 anarchy were inflated I would wholly agree with you in fact they dropped a full 10fps from the IBO for 2013. I totally agree that IBO tolerances have a wide spectrum for bow companies to work within but ALL companies use the tolerances to the best of their advantage. If Bear are guilty of inflating speeds than all bow manufactures are because they all use the industry standard to the best of their advantage.

Please don't get me wrong here your test was awesome and adjusting the dl measurments only goes to boost speeds a little. All in all your test was well written and very informative. One thing I would say is that neither my agenda nor my motive needed 74 lbs to hit IBO both meet IBO at 71lbs, at 74lbs both my bows exceed IBO. As you just stated above your bow made IBO at specs within IBO tolerances therefore it meets IBO. They are defiantly not 10fps off!
There are many others here on AT who have also made IBO with the Motive and Agenda. Hitting IBO is the norm not a rarity.

On the dl thing I have an email from Bear stating that they measure to the front of the riser for actual dl measurement specs. I'm not special anyone can email bear and get the same info I did. My dl worked out on paper by the standard calculation is 28.75in and every bear bow I own is set at 28.5in. I own assault, motive, agenda all set to 28.5 my brother in law has a carnage set at 28.5 all these bows fit me well. I've also shot a couple of hoyts set at 29 of my buddies and they felt long. I've also shot another buddies monster mr6 and safari set at 29 and they felt long so from my personal experience bear are not a full 1inch long at all. Winmag548 says in a post above that his motive is set to 29.5 but both his full throttle and rpm are set to 29 this would indicate that he had to lengthen his motive by 1/2 in to meet same length as two other bows. I'm only reading between the lines here so we would need to ask him to verify that. Winmags results show that motive with a tweak or two can perform in the same league as 360ibo rated bows now that's impressive and far from 10fps slow.

It was tripleb2431 that stated bear bows IBO speed was inflated by 10fps and it was this comment that I thought was judgmental and unfair as the proof of many peoples results clearly show otherwise. I'm not dissing him in any way and I don't mean to ruffle feathers either I'm trying to simply clarify my opinion a little and show proof that bear speeds are far from inflated. I understand that both you guys enjoy shooting Bear bows and find Bear archery to be a company that you support by purchasing their products. My issue is if we start claiming that Bear inflate speeds by 10fps we risk potential damage to a company that is really starting to get momentum. Things spread on AT like wildfire and bad publicity is something no manufacturer needs especially when it's unwarranted and false. You can't tell me that experienced bow shops like hunters friend, or expert pro shop bow technicians/ tuner/ gurus like huntinsker don't know how to correctly measure dl. The real issue here is that IBO specs allow for tolerances and EVERY bow manufacturer takes advantage of this. Maybe companies need to show both IBO and ATA speeds on the sticker?
 
#71 ·
We're all good! I wanted to make sure that I wasn't coming across as derogatory or inflammatory in any way and you're exactly right: it can be VERY difficult to properly word a "simple" post with the correct tone. I've noticed more than a few misinterpretations between AT members that start an all out battle.

Glad you liked the test and I also confirmed that bear measures DL and brace height from the center of the rear Berger hole (for an entirely different reason but useful just the same).

As I said in a different (original) thread posted, the shop that confirmed 73-74 lbs on their scale could have been a bit hasty and may have been slightly less. Theses are the unknowns that affect the data and error of the measurements. But I do feel that with confirmation of how DL is measured by Bear and all the other data, their IBO speed is in fact spot on or perhaps just a bit low. With corrections for bare string, bare shaft arrows and a drop away rest (I shoot a biscuit for hunting) it would be 351-353+.

I am whole heartedly in Bears corner on this and have been extraordinarily happy with my Agenda. I'm looking into building a quick chart that puts DL, Draw weight and arrow weight into a table format for actual arrow speeds. Might be useful for those that have the time or ability to test and post results for a few other bows that have adjustable modules, string components, and/or obviously draw weights. My thought would be 2.5lb draw weight increments and arrows of 350,400, and 500.

It would be AWESOME to see similar tests on Method, Anarchy and the new Arena lines. Anyone care to add feedback on what variables would be useful for a standardized test of sorts? Hopefully this can do some good and give new owners/buyers some info before purchase!
 
#69 ·
Stand by what i say at true 30" not module 30" according to his findings it only would have been around 340 from a supposed 350 bow. And bear willing and with knowledge off sends them out the door a full inch over industry standard of measurement. Only one real reason i can think of doing that cause like i said it's not good for the consumer cause i don't know about you but i don't like my bows DL being an inch long. And its not being judgemental to state facts. That's called stating the facts if you killed someone i would call you a murder that wouldn't be judgemental you killed someone so that would make you a murderer. Bear sends out bows that in the 30 DL module it stretches to 31" so some one grabs a 350 grain arrow with their 70lb bow in the 30" module spot and shoots it through the chrono and it hits 350 So they think my bow is hitting ibo but really at true IBO module in 29" spot it really only hit 340. Aka false advertising. If i made a bow and i decided to measure my bows DL measures to the berger hole than SUBTRACT 2" to get my companies DL standard than i claimed my bow hits 380fps at 30" module setting (in actuality it be at about 34" DL) would you be mad you bought my bow and realized you can't get those speeds. Like i said Lord willing come tax check you'll be seeing me post all kinds of threads on my awesome new bear arena 30 cause that's hopefully going to be my next bow. I think it's the best bow on the market. BUT im buying knowing it's probably going to be a 335 fps bow and mot the 345 advertised.
 
#70 ·
Will be chronoing my Venue this week. Pumped to see what it does. Just got it set up today with a NAP micro drop away. Limbs are cranked down all the way and the pull is freakishly smooth and easy.
 
#72 ·
A little before my elk hunt this past September, I shot my Agenda 6 through my chrono so I could make an accurate sight tape. With the DW at 65#, DL at 29", and d-loop, aluminum string peep and half of a rubber cat whisker on the lower end of the string I'm shooting a 498-gr arrow and consistently getting 274 fps from this setup.
 
#73 ·
bear empire
62# (60# limbs maxed)
364 29 inch flatline 400
28.5 DL

ten shots through chrono 9 registered 273 1 was 272 fps

if that isnt consistency i dont know what is
 
#76 ·
Ouch that's about 15fps slower than should be you should be at about 300 now
 
#79 ·
Have you measured your bows literal DL yet. Not the module setting but the literal DL?
 
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