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Thread: Tuning??? 6 inches left at 50yards

  1. #1
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    Tuning??? 6 inches left at 50yards

    Been tuning a bow I had issues with while hunting last year. The bow seemed overly sensitive to any torque at all. So I have it driving nails from 40 yards in But when I step back out to 50 yards all my arrows drop in about 6 inches to the left. There wasn't any wind blowing. Is this 6 inches to the left due to the rest being out of tune to far to the left????
    2012 PSE Bow Madness XL 60 lbs @ 30"
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  2. #2
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    If its shooting perfect at 40 yards, and percfect at 10-20-30-35, and at 50 yards its 6 inches off, I would say its mental. or your arrows are terrible. Really I cant see how it could be perfect at 40 and off that much at 50.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver55 View Post
    Been tuning a bow I had issues with while hunting last year. The bow seemed overly sensitive to any torque at all. So I have it driving nails from 40 yards in But when I step back out to 50 yards all my arrows drop in about 6 inches to the left. There wasn't any wind blowing. Is this 6 inches to the left due to the rest being out of tune to far to the left????
    1) check 3rd axis.



    2) set the arrow rest SIDEWAYS position with my TWO Arrow Trick.






    SCOTCH Tape a 2nd arrow to your riser.
    Use two spring clamps, if necessary.

    Disconnect the cord to your drop away arrow rest.
    Arm must be in the full UP position.
    Nock an arrow on your string.
    Bottom cam on the carpet.
    LOOK STRAIGHT DOWN.

    If the arrows, both arrows, are NOT dead parallel,
    then,
    move the arrow rest SIDEWAYS,
    until both arrows are DEAD parallel.

    LOck it down.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net


  4. #4
    Now,
    try my 2 yard test...yes,
    just 2 YARDS in your garage.

    This is to test your windage position for your sight.





    2 yards.
    String with a weight on the end.

    MOVE your sight pins windage SIDEWAYS
    until you can NAIL what you are looking at,
    just 2 YARDS away.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
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    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  5. #5
    Now,
    check your 3rd axis.

    FIX it if needed.

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=334316
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  6. #6
    LAST step.

    Go back to 60 yards.

    Yup,
    60 yards.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  7. #7
    Fire fletched arrow groups at 60 YARDS,
    and fine tune the SIDEWAYS position of your arrow rest,
    moving the arrow rest in 1/64ths of an inch,
    until your FLETCHED arrows are DEAD ON TOP of your bullseye.

    Move the arrow rest ONLY
    during long range tuning,
    to fine tune your SIDEWAYS position of your fletched arrows,
    so your arrows are CENTERED around the bullseye.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  8. #8
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    Thanks Nuts and Bolts!
    2012 PSE Bow Madness XL 60 lbs @ 30"
    2012 Rytera Alien XT Hybrix 2.0 cams 65 lbs @ 30"
    2013 PSE EVO Max 70 lbs @ 30"
    2014 ELITE Energy 35 70 lbs @ 30" (Won it here on AT!!)

  9. #9
    Hey Nuts&bolts, after you have your windage where you want it at 2 yards and you move to 60 yards and you need to move your rest, how will this effect your rest at closer yardages?
    Hoyt Faktor Turbo
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WB450 View Post
    Hey Nuts&bolts, after you have your windage where you want it at 2 yards and you move to 60 yards and you need to move your rest, how will this effect your rest at closer yardages?
    Try it
    and discover what happens.

    If your 3rd axis is adjusted.....
    then,
    see what happens after you tune your arrow rest sideways position at 60 yards...

    see what happens at 50 yards,
    40 yards
    30 yards
    20 yards
    10 yards.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by WB450 View Post
    Hey Nuts&bolts, after you have your windage where you want it at 2 yards and you move to 60 yards and you need to move your rest, how will this effect your rest at closer yardages?
    There IS one extra step.

    MUST tune your draw length
    also at 2 yards.







    TUNE your draw length (usually shorter)
    until you get THIS RESULT
    at 2 yards.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  12. #12
    I'm sorry but 3rd axis being off is going to have very minimal effect on flat ground. The minor difference in the angle we hold the bow for trajectory difference with range is going to take an exceptional shooter to recognize.

    The axis that plays the primary role here is the second.....then the first....then the third.

    Being "on" at distance up to 40 and then suddenly 6" off at 50 is the shooter. Not a tuning or sight setup issue.

    The guys anchor is changing, his peep alignment is changing, his grip is changing.....he's tweaking the release or peeking or something. It isn't tuning.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    This is another example of bad advice.

    Nuts and bolts... Please explain how a third axis or center shot is the cause of a 6" miss over a 10 yard span when the previous hit?

    I will, it didnt. Unless his 40 yard station was flat and his 50 is on the roof of his 3 story house.

    To the OP, try setting your peep height at 50 and then shooting closer yardages. Most likely your face or release hand is torquing the string as you compensate for the peep height/anchor change

  14. #14
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    Nuts and bolts obviously doesnt shoot a bow. Or have any experience in doing so at an advanced level.

    If i get stuck in the mud and the car wont go, should i


    FIRST remove the transmission and hang it from a string in your garage

    SECOND remove your rear end and push it towards the transmission. If it rolls to the right, shorten your drive shaft. If it rolls left, lengthen it.

    LAST roll your rear end down the street. If it hits any parked cars, deflate your right front tire.

    Re-install your rear end and transmission. You'll be out of the mud no problem


    Sounds ridiculous eh?

  15. #15
    You are absolutely correct.
    I have no experience shooting at an advanced level.

    Just don't tell Jeff Sena, ok?
    He's on the US ParaElite team.

    His 50 meter shooting is doing really well,
    now that I've tweaked his bow with minor
    and some rather MAJOR adjustments.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    You are absolutely correct.
    I have no experience shooting at an advanced level.

    Just don't tell Jeff Sena, ok?
    He's on the US ParaElite team.

    His 50 meter shooting is doing really well,
    now that I've tweaked his bow with minor
    and some rather MAJOR adjustments.
    So can you explain the diagnosis of a 3rd axis issue_?

  17. #17
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    You did not answer my question. Explain this masterpiece you posted above.

  18. #18
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    Yeah i didnt think so.

  19. #19
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    You're doubting the wrong guy. He helps a ton of archers off this site and his advice is rarely far off.
    '11 Bowtech Destroyer 340 - Hunt
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  20. #20
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    N&B,
    I understand what you're saying completely....some things are just understood by engineering minds that are hard to understand by non-engineering people.

    first, just for clarity's sake.......the third axis N&B is referring to is not the third axis referred to when talking about sights.....although it does have the function in relation to line of sight vs. path of arrow.
    what N&B is referring to is actually angular third axis of arrow alignment in relation to line of sight.....some what different.
    essentially, the angular alignment of center shot sets the trajectory of the arrow in a perfectly vertical plane, in relation to the plane of sight through the sights. if this is not properly alined, the arc of trajectory, will be at a slight angle vertically in comparison to the same vertical plane your sight is aligned with. this causes the arc of the arrow's trajectory to sweep to the side of the vertical line of sight and will result in left and right variations of POI., depending on the distance the POI is from the bow.
    now depending on how far the distance is that the sight was initially set up at, this sweep may be to the left on shorter distances and to the right on longer distances or vise verse, depending on whether the vertical alignment is right or left of perfect center shot.
    may it would be clearer if I said this,......
    if you take a part of a circle or parabellum, which is actually how the arrows travels in flight. and lean it sideways a few degrees, you just did exactly what the arrow does when the third axis or angular alignment ith the rest, is off.
    as the arrow strikes an arc through the air, represented by that line that is the segment of the circle that is leaned over, it will start at the point of origin....the bow... the travel in it's arc until it meets the point at which the sight was set, and continue in it's arc in the same direction it originated from. any other sight settings at different distances along the arrows arc will be either to the left or right of the vertical plane that is your line of sight, depending on whether the center shot is left or right of the vertical line of sight.
    now as the arrow travels further the arc's radius gets smaller and the deviation left or right gets larger because of the parabolic nature of the arrow's arc of flight.
    it's one of those things you have to visualize to understand it.

    basically as N&B said, make small adjustments to your center shot, when shoot at 50 or 60 yards until you are getting your POI to be where you aim, and the closer distances will take care of them selves automatically.

  21. #21
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    I would say your sight is not right and your doing a lot of work that dint need done check your sight
    SHUT UP AND SHOOT YOUR BOW

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ron w View Post
    N&B,
    I understand what you're saying completely....some things are just understood by engineering minds that are hard to understand by non-engineering people.

    first, just for clarity's sake.......the third axis N&B is referring to is not the third axis referred to when talking about sights.....although it does have the function in relation to line of sight vs. path of arrow.
    what N&B is referring to is actually angular third axis of arrow alignment in relation to line of sight.....some what different.
    essentially, the angular alignment of center shot sets the trajectory of the arrow in a perfectly vertical plane, in relation to the plane of sight through the sights. if this is not properly alined, the arc of trajectory, will be at a slight angle vertically in comparison to the same vertical plane your sight is aligned with. this causes the arc of the arrow's trajectory to sweep to the side of the vertical line of sight and will result in left and right variations of POI., depending on the distance the POI is from the bow.
    now depending on how far the distance is that the sight was initially set up at, this sweep may be to the left on shorter distances and to the right on longer distances or vise verse, depending on whether the vertical alignment is right or left of perfect center shot.
    may it would be clearer if I said this,......
    if you take a part of a circle or parabellum, which is actually how the arrows travels in flight. and lean it sideways a few degrees, you just did exactly what the arrow does when the third axis or angular alignment ith the rest, is off.
    as the arrow strikes an arc through the air, represented by that line that is the segment of the circle that is leaned over, it will start at the point of origin....the bow... the travel in it's arc until it meets the point at which the sight was set, and continue in it's arc in the same direction it originated from. any other sight settings at different distances along the arrows arc will be either to the left or right of the vertical plane that is your line of sight, depending on whether the center shot is left or right of the vertical line of sight.
    now as the arrow travels further the arc's radius gets smaller and the deviation left or right gets larger because of the parabolic nature of the arrow's arc of flight.
    it's one of those things you have to visualize to understand it.

    basically as N&B said, make small adjustments to your center shot, when shoot at 50 or 60 yards until you are getting your POI to be where you aim, and the closer distances will take care of them selves automatically.
    None of what you stated will make an arrow that hits dead on at 40 will make it hit 6 inches off at 50
    I don't think you or nuts and bolts read the original statement
    In Alan's defense i think he pastes a standard kitchen sink guide to any post involving tuning.
    That being said the op cant be dead nuts at 40 and six inches off at 50 unless he is jerking at 50 and shooting well at 40
    "Tuning can only be relevant if you have consistent form; and if you have consistent form , tuning then becomes irrelevant."

  23. #23
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    it most certainly will....
    take a perfectly tuned bow that is sighted in good, and cant it at an angle as if shooting with a cross wind. shoot several arrows at different distances holding the same cant and tell me how the POI changes from distance to distance.
    the angular displacement that I describe is exactly what we do when we cant the bow in a cross wind and produces the same results. an amount of cant, is the same as an amount of angular displacement between vertical line of sight and center shot produced by the distance the line of sight is above the origin of the arrows path. the arrow takes off into the wind because the cant produces the vertical angle of plane the arrow's trajectory travels on.
    if you don't understand this, you don't understand how an arrows travels through the air, and why we have to have several different sight marks to hit different target distances..

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ron w View Post
    it most certainly will....
    take a perfectly tuned bow that is sighted in good, and cant it at an angle as if shooting with a cross wind. shoot several arrows at different distances holding the same cant and tell me how the POI changes from distance to distance.
    To make a six inch difference in ten yards the op would have had to be holding dead straight up at 40 and canting about 45 degrees at 50, i think he would have niticed the difference.

  25. #25
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    show me your arrow......wieght, spine, lenght, FOC, tip weight, fletching. Im thinking not enough FOC or drag and at 40-50 yards is where rear end is trying to take the lead, 35-40 is where I was noticing this with some arrows I was bare shafting couple weeks ago and I could see the arrow get almost sideways just before hitting the target.

    Just a thought but is only one I can come up with to explain whats going on between 40-50 yards here.
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