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New tubless Peep twisting at full draw on Agenda 6

3K views 30 replies 13 participants last post by  Canerods 
#1 ·
Hi

I decided to install a RAD 38 degree peep sight (http://www.cabelas.com/product/R-A-D-Super-Deuce-Peep-Sight/1381643.uts) on my Agenda 6 on the weekend. I did this by putting it in the bow press and made sure my d-loop was straight and the peep was straight when I took it out of the press.

The problem I am running into is I see the peep twisting 10 to 15 degrees to the right when at full draw on my right hand bow.

I decided to do some research and it looks like I could train the peep by:

(1) Twist peep sight in opposite direction.
-trying this now.

(2) Twist d-loop in opposite direction so it will align the peep.
-tried this and notice the d-loop is moving left to right under tension so this is not dependable.

(3) Add half twist to to main string.
- not sure how to do this.

Question

(1) I have not tied in my peep yet. Could this be the reason why it is twisting?

(2) I have read that there is a possibility that the strings were not twisted correctly. So curious how you guys solved the issue?

Source:
http://www.huntersfriend.com/peep_sight_alignment.html
 
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#2 ·
if you are still running the stock strings, that would be your problem. Bear's factory strings are less than desireable and the first thing i changed on every one of my Bear bows.
 
#3 ·
These are the stock strings. Just curious if anyone else changed them with the 2014 bows? Just seems to be a waste as this is my first bow and I would think your dishing out $100 to $150 USD for new strings?
 
#5 ·
I have a set of custom strings made for every bow I own before the bow even gets to me. I don't find it a waste of money at all. By doing this. I know I have a top notch set of strings on my rig and I have the brand new stock set as a back up just incase something happens. To answer your question on the peep twist. You need to add 1/2 twist to the string until it's straight. Sometimes, but not often, you will need to flop strands from one side of the peep to the other side to get it to stay where you want it.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Looks like I came across the same links/videos you all did. I guess it surprises me that these strings are supposed to be made from BCY material and the bow itself is like $900 so you would think strings would be very important.

So if I was to buy strings what do you suggest I get for an Agenda?
 
#10 ·
The material isn't the problem. The build process is what determines if a string is good or not. All string builders use basically the same materials but not all string builders do all the necessary things to put out good quality stuff. I've had good luck with my Bear factory strings but I've seen others that weren't that good. If your peep is wanting to rotate while you draw the bow, you may have a string with uneven tension. If that happens, you can get that rotation as you draw.

You may be able to get it to stop by adjusting the twists of the string. If your string is twisting to the right, try twisting the bottom of your string a full twist to the left. You may have to take the peep out and reinstall it so that it faces the correct way again. Sometimes you just have to play with the twists a bit to get it to settle down. Shooting the bow a bunch can help too. It slowly evens the bundle tension. If you have access to a string stretcher, you could remove the string, take the peep out and stretch the string at 300lbs for an hour or so. That should even the bundles. Then wait 4 hours or so for the string to rest before installing on the bow again.

The biggest reason stock strings have peep rotation is that they don't get the adequate stretching and relaxing time. The string are made as fast as possible and as long as they keep the bow together, they are good enough. That's why most will just buy a custom string right away. It happens with every bow company.
 
#9 ·
No reason to up and pitch the factory strings just bc YOU can't get the peep aligned right. You will have the exact same issue with an aftermarket set if you don't have it put in right or haven't adjusted the string to make it line up like you want.

Just do a little research and you will be able to get it lined up like you want.
 
#11 ·
Good post Huntinsker.

I agree...the strings on the Agenda are great for factory strings. I have messed with almost every kind of factory string on the market working on friend's bows. My Agenda is the first bow I have bought I decided to NOT put after market strings on. I shot about 20 times and tied in my peep. I am up to maybe 500 shots including practice and a round at the ASA here at Fort Benning, my peep has not moved a single degree.

The biggest issue with peep twist I see all the time is incorrect installation of the peep. People sliding the peep up and down, sliding the knots up and down, putting the peep into the string at the wrong place. I would pull it back out. Shoot your bow a few dozen times to settle the strings again. Pick your peep location at a natural straight split location so it sits straight with the string at rest. Tie it in nice and tight again and see what happens.
 
#12 ·
Thanks Huntinsker. I think your recommendations makes the most sense.

I will continue to manually train the string by twisting the peep it for the first 100 shots.

After that I will need to research how to add a twist to the main string as I am only familiar with twisting the control cables to change the ATA length. Do you think Bear includes this info in the bow manuals?
 
#13 ·
You do it the same as twisting the cables. Just press the bow, take the bottom loop off the bottom cam and twist which ever way you want. Try not to do half twists if you can help it because that can loosen the serving from being bent back and forth in opposite directions.

I'm not a fan of "training" the peep by twisting it. I becomes a habit and if you are constantly touching and twisting the string, it can cause premature string wear. I much prefer to set the d-loop off center to where it pulls the peep inline at full draw. It doesn't fix the problem but it doesn't cause possible string wear either.
 
#15 ·
This:

"I'm not a fan of "training" the peep by twisting it. I becomes a habit and if you are constantly touching and twisting the string, it can cause premature string wear. I much prefer to set the d-loop off center to where it pulls the peep inline at full draw. It doesn't fix the problem but it doesn't cause possible string wear either."

When you set the D loop slightly off center to pull the peep in line at full draw, you may have to put a drop of super glue on the D loop knots barely touching the string too to keep it in from twisting straight again, at least that is what worked for me.
 
#16 ·
I've noticed the d-loop shifting back to center every 2 to 3 shots so thank you for sharing your results. This is why i am going to add a twist to the string on the bottom cam.
 
#17 ·
I wanted to update the findings on my issue. I have determined that after tying my peep sight in the factory string and adjusting the twist by half turn that the peep turns counter clockwise by 90 degrees at full draw. After 20 shots the string will turn 3-5 degrees in addition. So far I have fired 140 shots with the strings to try to settle them. My brothers bow (martin mystic) does not have this issue. So my work around is to have the peep starting at 90 degrees clockwise. Think I will contact Bear to let them know about the issue. Thanks everyone for the help.
 
#18 ·
Wow my Venue stock strings are fine. Just installed the peep and shot.

Honestly it think you have a bad peep install.

Bring your bow to the dealer w the best rep you can find w tuning.

I bet if he/she ties your peep it will be fine.

I have bought 1 set of aftermarket strings in my life. This is about the install. Those strings are BCY. There's nothing wrong with them
 
#19 ·
Just curious ... How can you tie a peep wrong based on the behavior.

-you fire the bow 40 times to work in the pre-stretched strings.
- You press the bow.
-split the strings (easy to do as two colors)
-mount the peep and let down from vise.
- adjust height.
-tie peep in top and bottom with in fold knot's.
-adjust twist on string to compensate for peep tie in turning string.
-break in string by continuing to fire string and monitor it stretching.

I could see if my peep moved up /down that it would be a bad install. Also keep in mind that the strings behaved the same way with no ties in the string with peep inserted.

I think it is interesting how a bow tech can be omnipotent considering the countless videos of training peeps, and questions on peeps becoming misaligned. Maybe you are thinking about centering a peep by adjusting strands?

How many times have you fired your venue?
 
#20 ·
Venue has hundreds of shots. I shoot 60 to 80 a night in my basement 3x a week. So maybe high hundreds.

I have never put a twist in the string after the peep was set.

I have 2 very good tuners in local shops. I guess I'm lucky

I also basically only use a g5 peep. Could be the peep

I will also say that I bought my Venue used. The guy before me definitely had peep rotation issues. His d loop was all jacked in his failed attempt to stop the rotation. My dealer took his peep out and put a new one in. No issues. It's in the install
 
#25 ·
Hunterhp I assume your screen shot are not factory strings. Also notice your peep is tied through the center with the same serving thread which allowed the line to be transferred to the other side.

This is the video I saw matching the papasedge tie of the peep sight.

How to Serve in a Peep Sight by Draves Archery: http://youtu.be/3oEra18_MU4

My center tie will go in separately after I ensure the height is perfect.
 
#27 ·
Looks good. I choose my method so I could easily change peeps since I would only have to cut the center tie.
 
#29 ·
Sometimes the twisting is hard to get out. A lot of times with the factory Bear Contraband strings you can't split the colors due to not having a good stretching time.
I have had factory strings take 2-400 shots before finally settling down due to not being pre stretched very well.
If you are having the rotation still after 2-300 shots, take the peep out, swap string strands to make it come back straight and you are good to go.
Just remember when you are addi g or taking twists out of your string you are changing your draw length and overall poundage as well which will change your sights ever so slightly.
This has been my findings since I have been shooting Bear bows for the past 3 years and tuning them with stick strings/cables.
Me personally I put Barn Burner custom strings on my competition bows and shoot maybe 10-20 shots through them then install my peep and readjust my nocking point for perfect arrow flight and alignment.
The Contraband strings are hit and miss, some come out great, some don't.
A custom set from Barn Burner for $85 is a great investment and my last set had over 40,000 shots through them and were still going strong. Only reason I changed them was to try the new BCY X material and I love it!!!
 
#30 ·
I wanted to put in my last update on this thread. Bear sent new strings as the bow tech was not able to get rid of the twist. Next set i will be buying pro strings like everyone suggested.

Thank you for all your help. I learned a lot.
 
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