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Thread: X=6 Pro Scoring: One year in how do you feel now?

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    i think that is a little twisted around, i'm pretty sure nfaa created the field round, and that nfaa existed before ifaa. I was looking for some history but didn't find it yet.

    The wikipedia article only refers to the two major international organizations, ifaa and wa. The only national-level organization included there is england, probably someone from england wrote the article.

    Wikipedia fans - you can always write your own article or paragraph and submit it for inclusion.
    nfaa 1 ifaa 2
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by 2little2late View Post
    I know this is digressing a bit, but how many members did the NFAA have in the glory days and how many attended the Nationals, Sectionals, etc. as opposed to now. Tom or Mike, please help here. I am fearful that all this discussion may be useless if the downward spiral continues in attendance. If you totally restructure the game it will no longer be field archery. I just don't think there is really much interest in archery period. I work with 168 people and I haven't found but one that shoots (I should say used to shoot) target archery and only a couple that shoot 3d for fun only because they hunt. I once heard that trap shooting was dying due to sporting clays, but I don't think so. You won't either if you know anything about Elysburg. And yes, like in field archery, there are very few that can flat out crush it in the rigid and structured disciplines of trap. Misses are very costly when you are at the top of the heap, as well they should be.
    I will always say it that when the target face changed so did the membership go down.. There were approx 35000 , then the change, within a few years it went down to approx. 18000. Location does have a lot to do with attendance. The past 10 years, the largest crowd was Mechanicsburg 502. That is for Nationals only. Many years ago there were crowds in the 700, 600, I think Grayling had 1400. If you look at Nationals ratio of members to attendance, it really is piss poor ,even now.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderEagle View Post
    X=6 does nothing to increase shooters.
    You can't possibly know that.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by brtesite View Post
    yes we do need the shooters.

    Can you make a list of what will bring in the shooters. I don't mean the 6 rule. Actual restructuring of the system that will do it . Then give it to your director to bring it to the floor. You see what ever you want to do is in the hands of the 50 directors, not some mythical group Called the NFAA in Yankton. Or better yet take over the directors job & you do it.
    I do not want to restructure the system, field archery is a wonderful game. What we need to do is to promote FS target archery in general. Around here the folks shooting hunting type equipment far outnumber the movable sight/scope shooters. As mentioned earlier I very seldom shoot 3D anymore due to the lack of competition in the open class. As far as the X=6 thing, it's already in, it just hasn't caught up to everyone as yet. Where the Pro's go the rest will follow.
    Last edited by EPLC; July 5th, 2014 at 07:51 PM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPLC View Post
    What we need to do is to promote FS target archery in general. Around here the folks shooting hunting type equipment far outnumber the movable sight/scope shooters.
    That feels like a funny statement to me.

    The part about promoting target archery is "on target" but when you add the qualifier FS (Freestyle) I think your aim is a little off.

    It seems like there are enough archers at Field tournaments in the Freestyle and Bowhunter Freestyle categories, but we need to convince the rest of the people (those who shoot Bowhunter, Barebow, Freestyle Limited, FSL Recurve, Traditional or Longbow) that field is a fun game and there is a place for EVERYONE.

    There is so much emphasis on the people who get the top scores, pushing the "perfect" limit, that the others might not be so aware that if they come to a Field shoot, they are only competing against others with their same equipment / restrictions.

    Who cares if CB is shooting 560, or a Pro is shooting 620, with the X=6 scoring, I want to be the top Freestyle Limited archer. That's the attitude we need.

    And even for the BHFS shooters, if your hunting rig isn't maybe so fancy or so fast, come anyway. I've seen some fun rivalries for "who in this division is going to finish LAST". Someone has to have that spot!

  6. #106
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    That feels like a funny statement to me.

    The part about promoting target archery is "on target" but when you add the qualifier FS (Freestyle) I think your aim is a little off.

    It seems like there are enough archers at Field tournaments in the Freestyle and Bowhunter Freestyle categories, but we need to convince the rest of the people (those who shoot Bowhunter, Barebow, Freestyle Limited, FSL Recurve, Traditional or Longbow) that field is a fun game and there is a place for EVERYONE.

    There is so much emphasis on the people who get the top scores, pushing the "perfect" limit, that the others might not be so aware that if they come to a Field shoot, they are only competing against others with their same equipment / restrictions.

    Who cares if CB is shooting 560, or a Pro is shooting 620, with the X=6 scoring, I want to be the top Freestyle Limited archer. That's the attitude we need.

    And even for the BHFS shooters, if your hunting rig isn't maybe so fancy or so fast, come anyway. I've seen some fun rivalries for "who in this division is going to finish LAST". Someone has to have that spot!
    I shot a 720 matchplay event yesterday and shot a personal worst. I felt a weird sense of accomplishment.

    Don't be surprised if you see a little surge in participation from the barebow crowd in the NFAA. USA archery just spit in their faces by kicking the division out of the nationals despite excellent attendance in that class.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    That feels like a funny statement to me.

    The part about promoting target archery is "on target" but when you add the qualifier FS (Freestyle) I think your aim is a little off.

    It seems like there are enough archers at Field tournaments in the Freestyle and Bowhunter Freestyle categories, but we need to convince the rest of the people (those who shoot Bowhunter, Barebow, Freestyle Limited, FSL Recurve, Traditional or Longbow) that field is a fun game and there is a place for EVERYONE.

    There is so much emphasis on the people who get the top scores, pushing the "perfect" limit, that the others might not be so aware that if they come to a Field shoot, they are only competing against others with their same equipment / restrictions.

    Who cares if CB is shooting 560, or a Pro is shooting 620, with the X=6 scoring, I want to be the top Freestyle Limited archer. That's the attitude we need.

    And even for the BHFS shooters, if your hunting rig isn't maybe so fancy or so fast, come anyway. I've seen some fun rivalries for "who in this division is going to finish LAST". Someone has to have that spot!
    Well that's not going to happen anytime soon. Sure you get FS shooters at field shoots... but not enough. Like it or not, field archery is a FS/movable sight game. For that matter, target archery in general is as well. I've tried many times to get the pin shooters and even the traditional folks to shoot field. Generally they try it once or twice and move on to the easier venues. The only way to attract folks other than FS shooters would be to introduce a less intimidating round for them to get their feet wet. If they like it they may move up to the real thing. There is already in place the tools to do this so no changes would be required. I suggest the following:

    Introduce a 50 yard max round to attract new shooters of any style. Since the Youth stakes are already there we could use them for an "intermediate" field archery round. With a 50 yard max the round would be less intimidating and may attract some additional shooters. Regular and intermediate rounds could be run together without much trouble with awards given for both. Like I said, everything is in place, someone just has to implement it. Hey, you could call it the EPLC round
    Last edited by EPLC; July 6th, 2014 at 03:32 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPLC View Post
    Well that's not going to happen anytime soon. Sure you get FS shooters at field shoots... but not enough. Like it or not, field archery is a FS/movable sight game. For that matter, target archery in general is as well. I've tried many times to get the pin shooters and even the traditional folks to shoot field. Generally they try it once or twice and move on to the easier venues.
    That always strikes me as funny, as the rounds we shoot for Field and Target, including the distances and number of arrows, were set BEFORE there were sights, release aids, and compound bows.

    The problem is that the expectations have changed, with all the focus on the top Freestyle shooters and their high scores. No reason the rest of us can't have fun, within the performance parameters of the equipment we choose to shoot.

    So what if we aren't chasing a perfect score, or if not all of our arrows get any score at all, or if we even BLANK some of the targets. It is how we compare with our peers that counts, not ranking against the hot dogs.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    That always strikes me as funny, as the rounds we shoot for Field and Target, including the distances and number of arrows, were set BEFORE there were sights, release aids, and compound bows.

    The problem is that the expectations have changed, with all the focus on the top Freestyle shooters and their high scores. No reason the rest of us can't have fun, within the performance parameters of the equipment we choose to shoot.

    So what if we aren't chasing a perfect score, or if not all of our arrows get any score at all, or if we even BLANK some of the targets. It is how we compare with our peers that counts, not ranking against the hot dogs.
    While all that may well be true... you are in a small minority with your line of thinking... Yes things have changed. In the "days of old" the game of field archery reflected the equipment of the times "BEFORE there were sights, release aids, and compound bows". That's why they changed the target face in 76/77... the equipment had changed, scopes and compound bows were making 560's a common place occurrence on the old 5-3 face. The only mistake they made then was keeping it a 560 game. Had they changed the scoring and introduced it as a new round... and perhaps kept the old round, they may have avoided the exodus that followed. Today, there needs to be a round the is not as intimidating to lure some new folks in. A 50 yard max round could do this...
    Last edited by EPLC; July 6th, 2014 at 09:41 PM.

  10. #110
    If long distance is a problem, why not let first timers shoot from the youth stakes to get their feet wet. That would get your 50 yard max without reinventing the game. (If you read much of the general discussion forum, most guys are busting nocks at 50 yards so they should easily clean it.)

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2little2late View Post
    If long distance is a problem, why not let first timers shoot from the youth stakes to get their feet wet. That would get your 50 yard max without reinventing the game. (If you read much of the general discussion forum, most guys are busting nocks at 50 yards so they should easily clean it.)
    2little2late... Hmmm... great name, and very appropriate based on your post.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2little2late View Post
    If long distance is a problem, why not let first timers shoot from the youth stakes to get their feet wet. That would get your 50 yard max without reinventing the game. (If you read much of the general discussion forum, most guys are busting nocks at 50 yards so they should easily clean it.)
    We always tell people when they register for our events that if they feel the distance is too far for them, no need flinging arrows into the dirt. Just declare yourself "non competitive" and move up to a closer stake (like the blue "Youth" stake with maximum 50 yard distance".

    Everyone is happy that way. Just don't expect to turn your scorecard in and take an award, it isn't a special competitive class, just "non-competitive".

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    We always tell people when they register for our events that if they feel the distance is too far for them, no need flinging arrows into the dirt. Just declare yourself "non competitive" and move up to a closer stake (like the blue "Youth" stake with maximum 50 yard distance".

    Everyone is happy that way. Just don't expect to turn your scorecard in and take an award, it isn't a special competitive class, just "non-competitive".
    Well why can't we make it a competitive class? That way it would be an official round that new shooters (or anyone that wants to) could compete in. Field archery is a great game. Once folks get their feet wet many may stick around. Getting them started is the key. While I think you are on the right track, having it non-competitive doesn't really produce a taste of what field archery is. In fact it's almost an insult to tell someone to shoot the kids markers. On the other hand, having it a sanctioned 50 yard max round that is open to anyone just could bring in shooters that are intimidated by the mere perception of having to shoot out to 80 yards. At the same time they wouldn't feel embarrassed shooting the round as it would be just another sanctioned round. While the youths would still shoot this as an official field round, we would have to call the new round something else as it would not be part of the standard round.
    Last edited by EPLC; July 7th, 2014 at 10:50 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by EPLC View Post
    Well why can't we make it a competitive class? That way it would be an official round that new shooters (or anyone that wants to) could compete in. Field archery is a great game. Once folks get their feet wet many may stick around. Getting them started is the key. While I think you are on the right track, having it non-competitive doesn't really produce a taste of what field archery is. In fact it's almost an insult to tell someone to shoot the kids markers. On the other hand, having it a sanctioned 50 yard max round that is open to anyone just could bring in shooters that are intimidated by the mere perception of having to shoot out to 80 yards. At the same time they wouldn't feel embarrassed shooting the round as it would be just another sanctioned round. While the youths would still shoot this as an official field round, we would have to call the new round something else as it would not be part of the standard round.
    I like it. There would only be 4 stations that are different anyway.

    If the proper name was used for the round I think it could gain some traction. Like was said once some people get a taste of it it is easy to set the hook. Just need to change the name from Youth to something else.

  15. #115
    Field 50
    Field 80
    Field 80X

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    Quote Originally Posted by erdman41 View Post
    Field 50
    Field 80
    Field 80X
    Kind of like in ASA:
    Open C
    Known 45
    Known 50

    I like it.
    Establish some kind of move up criteria, score, wins, whatever makes sense based on participation.
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  17. #117
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    Well people are already saying NFAA has "too many classes".

    So if we add another category with reduced distances, is this just ONE group? One for MEN and one for WOMEN = 2? Add SENIORS and it's up to 4? Add BAREBOW and it's 8? Where do you stop?

  18. #118
    When I suggested the youth stakes it was just for those totally new to field archery as a trial run so to speak, not a dedicated competitive game. They can shoot what they bring. No need for special bows, arrows, etc. Perhaps their trusty old hunting bow. After a trip around a unit or two they might just realize that yes, they can hit 50 and 65 cm faces farther than they thought. That person now is thinking about how much fun this would be if he learned the game. Some thoughts may go as follows: "I just might be able to hit that 80 yard walk up sometimes and those bunnies might be just fine if I get some good marks. Gee, a little less draw weight and 112 shots would really be doable. After all, I guess I do like to shoot - a lot." Next thing you know, said archer is showing up at shoots ready to go the distance. After all, I do believe we all are trying to draw more shooters in. Then we can talk about the 6 for an X. As I said before in so many words, if the game dies, it won't really matter how you score it.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    Well people are already saying NFAA has "too many classes".

    So if we add another category with reduced distances, is this just ONE group? One for MEN and one for WOMEN = 2? Add SENIORS and it's up to 4? Add BAREBOW and it's 8? Where do you stop?
    I think we should through up our hands and do nothing.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    Well people are already saying NFAA has "too many classes".

    So if we add another category with reduced distances, is this just ONE group? One for MEN and one for WOMEN = 2? Add SENIORS and it's up to 4? Add BAREBOW and it's 8? Where do you stop?
    Well, I'd kill a lot of those specialized classes too. I'd have the current freestyle, a Pins and short stab class, a class that would include your Olympic Recurves, and then a trad class. Yes this doesn't give compound finger shooters a class to themselves anymore.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2little2late View Post
    When I suggested the youth stakes it was just for those totally new to field archery as a trial run so to speak, not a dedicated competitive game. They can shoot what they bring. No need for special bows, arrows, etc. Perhaps their trusty old hunting bow. After a trip around a unit or two they might just realize that yes, they can hit 50 and 65 cm faces farther than they thought. That person now is thinking about how much fun this would be if he learned the game. Some thoughts may go as follows: "I just might be able to hit that 80 yard walk up sometimes and those bunnies might be just fine if I get some good marks. Gee, a little less draw weight and 112 shots would really be doable. After all, I guess I do like to shoot - a lot." Next thing you know, said archer is showing up at shoots ready to go the distance. After all, I do believe we all are trying to draw more shooters in. Then we can talk about the 6 for an X. As I said before in so many words, if the game dies, it won't really matter how you score it.
    2little... My original suggestion was to use the youth stakes for an as yet un-named intermediate round to draw in shooters that are intimidated by the distances of the standard round. By making it an official round new shooters would not feel like they were being babied or being treated like second class citizens. It would be an official round that all of the current rules, classes, etc. would apply. You want to shoot the standard round, fine... you want to shoot the intermediate round, fine... It would be open to all that would like to shoot it. You could even run both rounds in the same shoot with separate awards for each. I'm actually going to try and get one going at my club to see if we might lure in some of the 3D folks...

  22. #122
    Let us know how it works out at your club, because if it takes off that would be great. What we really need is youth shooters. I can usually find folks to shoot with, but I have already been (by a good bit) the youngest in a target group already and my first shoots were as an NFAA senior before they dropped it to fifty.

  23. #123
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    Well, maybe we in Washington are doing something right!

    Out of 97 archers at our WSAA Field Championship this year, 28 of them (more than 1/4) were in the Young Adult, Youth, and Cub categories (22 in Youth and Cub).

    We've got some active youth groups (JOAD and others) that are working to introduce their participants to the greater world of "all ages" archery. They even brought a BIG BUNCH to the NFAA Nationals 2013. They all camped together and had a great time.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa-prez View Post
    Well, maybe we in Washington are doing something right!

    Out of 97 archers at our WSAA Field Championship this year, 28 of them (more than 1/4) were in the Young Adult, Youth, and Cub categories (22 in Youth and Cub).

    We've got some active youth groups (JOAD and others) that are working to introduce their participants to the greater world of "all ages" archery. They even brought a BIG BUNCH to the NFAA Nationals 2013. They all camped together and had a great time.
    That sound great---a lot like it used to be. Maybe a short article for the magazine about how Washington is getting it done?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNMAN View Post
    That sound great---a lot like it used to be. Maybe a short article for the magazine about how Washington is getting it done?
    I think that is a great idea. We had 33 total shooters at the NE Sectionals this year. Yes the entire NE Section could only draw 33 shooters. 21 of those were 50-70... There was 1 cub and the rest were 18+ adults.

    Last edited by EPLC; July 9th, 2014 at 06:49 PM.


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