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Thread: Can't paper tune a single cam bow?

  1. #1
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    Can't paper tune a single cam bow?

    Hi Guys, I'm fairly new to the concept of tuning a bow... partly because I've never had any problems with consistency in my older bows.

    I got a Bowtech Mighty Mite for this season and have been shooting field tips up to this point. I shoot 2 inch groups at 20 yds.

    I just tried to shoot my Muzzy 3 blade 100gr. broadheads and they're wayyy off grouping to the right about 7 inches, and 2-3 inches low.



    I talked to the local shop and the man said its pointless to papertune a single cam bow because it will give different tears and different distances from the paper.
    My question I guess is... how do I tune this bow so I can get my broadheads to group with my field points? Simply sighting in my bow to my broadheads is totally unacceptable. I like to shoot field tips during season to keep me in shape.

    Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Kyle
    Bowtech Admiral 70lb 29"
    Whisker Biscuit, Timberline No-Peep, Smooth Stability Stablizer,
    Sword Twilight Hunter,Easton Lightspeed w/ Blazers 348gr. w/ 100 gr. Gators


  2. #2
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    www.eastonarchery.com Download their tuning guide and use it. It'll walk you right through sveral tuning processes, including broadheads.
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  3. #3
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    Sounds like your rest needs to come out about 1/4" and your nocking point down just a tad. Make these adjustments and see what you get.
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  4. #4
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    I too have had the same problem, I went to my pro-shop, they said my centershot was off, they tried papertuning with varried results. sometimes I would get a nock high tear and others a right tear. finally got it close and before I left there things were very good. the very next day I went to shoot with BHs again and they were right back to where I was,
    didn't understand this at all. not good a week before season starts.

  5. #5
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    You can papertune a single cam. My hunting bow in my sig is very similar to your mighty mite. Because of ATA they are very sensitive to hand torque, and mine seems to favor arrows that are overspined. Do what Sage said, and download eastons tuning guide and do the broadhead tuning.

  6. #6
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    Another vote for Easton tuning guide...

    Papertuning is possible, and your bow will probably not look right at rest. My nock point looks way off, but its tuned great and shoots great.

    I put a lot of effort into bare shaft tuning. Its gotten me the best results. Any broadhead I screw on impacts with my field points...

    Keep at it, and make sure you've got a torque free grip. That will kill in in any tuning efforts as well as shooting broadheads.

  7. #7
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    lots of single cams tune nock high for a perfect hole, I've seen some 1/4" high or more. But keep in mind, a perfect hole is only the starting point...good luck to ya.
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  8. #8
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    Whether you believe it or not..........

    Archery Myths

    Paper Tuning &

    The “Perfect Bullet Hole”

    By Wade Doyle - Hoyt USA Customer Service Manager


    Paper tuning for the “perfect bullet hole” is probably one of the most argued subjects in archery. It is also probably one of the least under stood subjects. Archers tend to believe their bow will never shoot perfectly if it can’t shoot a “perfect bullet hole” through paper. As we will discuss, this is just not true!

    Shooting an arrow through paper will illustrate your arrow flight at the specific distance you’re shooting from only. If you move back a few feet or up a few feet your tear could be completely different! Obviously, arrow flight is important when tuning your bow. However, even if you can’t shoot a perfect hole, this does not mean your bow is not working right or that you will not be able to shoot tight groups. In fact, many top archers actually tune their bows to get a small ½” or ¾” tear to achieve the best groups. So if you can’t create a perfect bullet hole, don’t panic and give up. Remember that the sole purpose of tuning your bow is to help you attain the tightest groups possible, not to achieve a perfect bullet hole though paper.

    The first thing you should do after obtaining a bow is to install all of your accessories. Rough tune the bow and shoot a minimum of 100 shots. Shooting the initial 100 shoots will allow the “shoot in” and will preset the buss cables and string. If you take time to shoot the first 100 shoots without making changes, it will be much easier in the long run to tune your bow.

    Once you have completed these steps, you should paper tune your bow several distances. This will help set your bow up for good arrow flight. The following descriptions will help you determine what your paper tears mean. Note these adjustments are for small tears, larger tears may require arrow change. Excessive vertical tears indicate a nocking point adjustment is needed. For a high tear lower your nocking point height slightly. For a low tear raise your nocking point slightly.

    Holes with a Right Tear Right Handed Shooters.

    A right tear indicates that your arrows are too stiff in spine for the bow’s present weight setting. This applies to a right handed shooter. A left handed archer will have the opposite pattern. To correct this type tear, try one or more of the following:

    a) move your arrow rest in toward the bow.

    b) increase the bow’s weight setting.

    c) use a heavier weight arrow point.

    d) decrease your cushion plunger tension if a plunger-type rest is used.

    e) try a weaker spined arrow.

    Holes with a Left Tear Right Handed Shooters.

    A left tear indicates that your arrows are too weak in spine for the bow’s present weight
    setting. This applies to a right handed shooter. A left handed archer will have the opposite pattern. To correct this type of tear, try one or more of the following:

    a) move your arrow rest out from the bow.

    b) decrease the bow’s weight setting.

    c) use a lighter weight arrow point.

    d) increase your cushion plunger tension if a plunger type rest is used.

    e) try a stiffer spined arrow.

    These adjustments will also help as you tune for accuracy. It is important to note that any changes you make to the alignment of your rest should be very small. If you find you are having to make major changes, then you are probably using the wrong arrow. The final tuning should include tiller tuning, micro tuning or a verity of other tuning methods.

    Once your arrows are grouping tightly at your aiming point, go back and shoot a couple more arrows through paper. This is not to make additional changes to the bow, but to create a reference for the future adjustments. Many times when your bow is perfectly tuned and is grouping well, the hole through paper will not be a perfect bullet hole, but will be slightly off. This is fine, you do not need to have a perfect “bullet hole”. Don’t forget, many top archers say they have a tear that is slightly off after they have finished tuning. Remember, your bow is in tune for you’re shooting style! Accuracy is everything in archery-not necessarily a perfect bullet hole!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton,West Virginia
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    1,252

    It can be done

    I have a single cam Champion Wolverine. The ATA is about 30.5". I have paper tuned the bow with perfect bullet holes out to 12 yards. I have learned that you can torque a bow and get a different tear every time with out any adjustments. Are you using a d loop? It may be a form issue and the reason I say this is from trial and error. I have worked on doing the exact same thing before every shot. Hand placement, anchoring point and breathing. I hope this helps.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by michihunter
    Archery Myths

    Paper Tuning &

    The “Perfect Bullet Hole”

    By Wade Doyle - Hoyt USA Customer Service Manager


    Paper tuning for the “perfect bullet hole” is probably one of the most argued subjects in archery. It is also probably one of the least under stood subjects. Archers tend to believe their bow will never shoot perfectly if it can’t shoot a “perfect bullet hole” through paper. As we will discuss, this is just not true!

    Shooting an arrow through paper will illustrate your arrow flight at the specific distance you’re shooting from only. If you move back a few feet or up a few feet your tear could be completely different! Obviously, arrow flight is important when tuning your bow. However, even if you can’t shoot a perfect hole, this does not mean your bow is not working right or that you will not be able to shoot tight groups. In fact, many top archers actually tune their bows to get a small ½” or ¾” tear to achieve the best groups. So if you can’t create a perfect bullet hole, don’t panic and give up. Remember that the sole purpose of tuning your bow is to help you attain the tightest groups possible, not to achieve a perfect bullet hole though paper.

    The first thing you should do after obtaining a bow is to install all of your accessories. Rough tune the bow and shoot a minimum of 100 shots. Shooting the initial 100 shoots will allow the “shoot in” and will preset the buss cables and string. If you take time to shoot the first 100 shoots without making changes, it will be much easier in the long run to tune your bow.

    Once you have completed these steps, you should paper tune your bow several distances. This will help set your bow up for good arrow flight. The following descriptions will help you determine what your paper tears mean. Note these adjustments are for small tears, larger tears may require arrow change. Excessive vertical tears indicate a nocking point adjustment is needed. For a high tear lower your nocking point height slightly. For a low tear raise your nocking point slightly.

    Holes with a Right Tear Right Handed Shooters.

    A right tear indicates that your arrows are too stiff in spine for the bow’s present weight setting. This applies to a right handed shooter. A left handed archer will have the opposite pattern. To correct this type tear, try one or more of the following:

    a) move your arrow rest in toward the bow.

    b) increase the bow’s weight setting.

    c) use a heavier weight arrow point.

    d) decrease your cushion plunger tension if a plunger-type rest is used.

    e) try a weaker spined arrow.

    Holes with a Left Tear Right Handed Shooters.

    A left tear indicates that your arrows are too weak in spine for the bow’s present weight
    setting. This applies to a right handed shooter. A left handed archer will have the opposite pattern. To correct this type of tear, try one or more of the following:

    a) move your arrow rest out from the bow.

    b) decrease the bow’s weight setting.

    c) use a lighter weight arrow point.

    d) increase your cushion plunger tension if a plunger type rest is used.

    e) try a stiffer spined arrow.

    These adjustments will also help as you tune for accuracy. It is important to note that any changes you make to the alignment of your rest should be very small. If you find you are having to make major changes, then you are probably using the wrong arrow. The final tuning should include tiller tuning, micro tuning or a verity of other tuning methods.

    Once your arrows are grouping tightly at your aiming point, go back and shoot a couple more arrows through paper. This is not to make additional changes to the bow, but to create a reference for the future adjustments. Many times when your bow is perfectly tuned and is grouping well, the hole through paper will not be a perfect bullet hole, but will be slightly off. This is fine, you do not need to have a perfect “bullet hole”. Don’t forget, many top archers say they have a tear that is slightly off after they have finished tuning. Remember, your bow is in tune for you’re shooting style! Accuracy is everything in archery-not necessarily a perfect bullet hole!
    And all God's people said AMEN......
    Just to add to this though. Make your life simple and use the old calibrated eyeball for the initial setup and then micro tune. Faster, simpler and same result. Paper tune = drive yourself crazy.

  11. #11
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    quad cities IL/IA
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    First off, Thank you all for your help. It's much appreciated.

    Yesterday after work I went shooting to see if I could paper tune and get my broadheads to hit consistently with my field tips.

    I started out shooting through the paper at about 6-8 ft. The results were a 2 inch left tear consistently. I adjusted my rest and was able to get a slight left tear at close range and bullet holes at anything past 15 feet. I thought this would put me on the right track so I began trying my broadheads at 20yds.
    Things were just as bad as before I had moved my rest (Broadheads hitting about 8 inches or so to the right). I then began adjusting the windage of the rest like a mad man and every change produced the exact same result... way right with the broadheads.

    I took off my STS thinking that maybe it was a touch off center and was kicking my arrows erradically. That didn't make any difference either.
    After about 100 shots of tinkering I looked at my top limb while at full draw and noticed the limb is torqued counterclockwise (away from me).
    The string is coming off the wheel at a pretty extreme angle.
    Is this normal for the top limb to look like this? I just seemed awfully out of whack to be twisted that much.
    Could someone please give me some input on what I'm seeing.

    Thanks again for your help.
    Kyle
    Bowtech Admiral 70lb 29"
    Whisker Biscuit, Timberline No-Peep, Smooth Stability Stablizer,
    Sword Twilight Hunter,Easton Lightspeed w/ Blazers 348gr. w/ 100 gr. Gators

  13. #13
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    Is it possible you are under spined with those 55/75 GT's?

  14. #14
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    I'm using 100 gr tips on a 27inch arrow. The pro shop said I shouldn't be underspined.... what do you think?
    Bowtech Admiral 70lb 29"
    Whisker Biscuit, Timberline No-Peep, Smooth Stability Stablizer,
    Sword Twilight Hunter,Easton Lightspeed w/ Blazers 348gr. w/ 100 gr. Gators

  15. #15
    Maybe some people will not agree with me but if you are tuned pretty well with with fieldtips, which it sounds like you are. Try a pack of 100 grain slick tricks. From the second I put them on I can hit exactly with my field tips.

  16. #16
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    Dude you're underspined. Plain as day, for your setup you need 7595's. Arrow spine is critical for good broadhead flight. The trend you are getting, with your broadhead arrows flying that far to the right shows you are underspined as that is a weak spine indicator. Also, you need to put a few twists in the one yoke arm to bring your idler into square. That should help a little.

    If you had read the easton tuning guide that the fellas put up there you would have been able to come to the conclusion that you were underspined as it explains the flight characteristics of stiff and weak spines to a 'T'.

    To remedy you though, I'd suggest you try dropping down to 75 grain points. This should help stiffen you up.
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  17. #17
    I know gold tips are a little underspined but I don't think that much. I shoot 55/75 and 75/95 and they both shoot fine for me. at 27" 55/75 is pretty stiff

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
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    I had the same problem with a single cam Hoyt. Added the twists needed in the yolk to square up the top limb and it shot perfect.

    J.V.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVOIGT
    I had the same problem with a single cam Hoyt. Added the twists needed in the yolk to square up the top limb and it shot perfect.

    J.V.
    Yep. This is what you need to do. Just twist one side to realign. Also check for axle or cam bushing wear. This can also cause lean. As far as being underspined you would have to be shooting a ridiculous amount of poundage with a 27" arrow to not be stiff enough. What are you using for fletchings? This is very critical for correct broadhead flight. Also, do you have fletching contact on the bow, rest, or cables.

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