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Thread: High end scopes, are they worth it?

  1. #1
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    High end scopes, are they worth it?

    Wanted to start a new thread instead of jumping on the "HHA optimizer scope choice" thread. Just got a used DTM SS330 minus sights (YEAH ME!). Been researching about the HHA Optimizer and am thinking this is the way I want to go. Now the other thread talks about upgrade choices which is fine but I did not want to hijack that thread so the questions is "Are the high dollar optics worth it or perhaps better stated are they really needed. Please excuse my ignorance in this, I understand and believe you get what you pay for but are you saying I just won't be satisfied with a 100.00 or less scope and if not specifically why not? Just a guy here who does not have a lot of money to spend especially when some scopes are more than I paid for the whole crossbow!



    Thanks Todd


  2. #2
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    I don't think they are necessary Todd, I mean we're only generally shooting what 50 yds max at deer with the higher power bows, the HHA scope that is available with the illuminated L-4 scope is a good hunting scope, I have a Horton scope made by Hawke that has a speed ring and illuminated I bought new for $50,,,
    now with that said, if you shoot for ultimate precision at long range, then yes a premium scope is probably going to be beneficial.
    The shots in this video at 70 yds. was with the HHA with the L-4, it's only 3 power and the center dot is kinda big for ultimate precision.
    I guess it really comes down to what one can afford

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejb6j...e_gdata_player
    LS 390, HHA, HHA scope L-4
    Vent 150 HHA Vortex Diamondback
    Excalibur Matrix 380, RH Custom string, Trigger Tech, HHA
    Crossbow Warrior Pro Staff
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  3. #3
    For archery, which is short range sport, nope.

  4. #4
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    Like Randy said the L4 scope that you can get with the Hha is all you will ever need for hunting. I think it is a great hunting scope as the straight 3 power isn't overpowering at short range. One word if caution when reading this board. A few on here like to tinker and look for the "ultimate" setup. Absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not needed for hunting or shooting purposes.
    Excalibur Matrix 380
    Excalibur Matrix 330
    HHA Optimizer with Hawke Scope
    18" Black Eagle Arrows w/ 110 grain insert and Lumenoks
    100 grain Swhacker broadheads 1.75"

  5. #5
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    I save my high end scopes for the hunting handguns and rifles. The bows get a decent scope that is clear, has multiple aiming points and whose size fits the particular bow. I too have no problem with high end gear for the sake of high end gear ... just think it's particularly wasted as high end scopes on bow.
    Why do I hunt? Simple, it's BASIC.
    Why do you breathe?!

    Excalibur, Mission, single shot rifles and handguns

  6. #6
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    Definitely not ... needed and probably not worth it ... to 99% of the shooters out there.

    #1. Expensive optics should not be a consideration unless you have the money to buy one without pain. Everything is relative when it comes to a budget. You want the best quality you can get "within" the price range YOU consider reasonable for the task.
    #2. There is a "quality of the experience" factor in buying high end optics. When you look through the glass do you take joy from the difference in picture quality in and of itself? Or ... are you looking through the glass and simply identifying your target? How much is that worth to you?
    #3. A $59.00 Tasco can getterdone at 25 yards. Do you need a $590.00 Vortex? That's strictly personal choice. What "you" will be satisfied with can only be determined by you. What do you have on your deer rifle? What do you have on your .22 rimfire might be the better question?
    #4. I think you should take a look at the Redfield ( http://www.redfield.com/_media/downl...w_crossbow.pdf ) Nikon ( http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/N...bow-Scope.html ) and Leupold ( http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoot...ossbow-scopes/ )
    Scorpyd Velocity165 425.5fps @ 426gr & 171KE, Zeiss 3-12 Illum Duralyt, CamX Accuspine, 100gr Firenock SBG RamCats Scorpyd Orion150 Leupold 2.5-8x36mm, AcuDraw, Wyvern BEEs. Swarovski bino, Leica rangefinder, Surefire, Deerelight & Fenix lights.
    White Buffalo Inc. - Project Manager ... Wounded Warrior Project - Mentor ... NRA Life Member 1971

  7. #7
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    this question is easy to anwser.

    Reality is that a 269.00 crossbow from China will kill deer quite well, as i know a person that has killed many more deer then I with that bow .
    So any cheap scope is more then adequate as long as you practice.

    My personal opinion is that a reasonable amount of money should be spent for some optics to up grade from the stock scope unless it is from Excaliber or maybe Ten point etc.

    So what is a reasonable amount of money.....? I think if you have around 250.00 to throw at a new scope your in real good shape and will be quite happy.

    truth be known vary few people can tell the difference from say a 400.00 scope to 1200.00 scope.

    The simple answer is always the same. How much can you afford to spend on a scope...? The guy with a 1200.00 scope never asks himself that question.
    Mathews MR7 orange smoke
    Strykezone 350/380 Xb30 scope
    Scorpyd Velocity, Leupold VX3 4.5 x 14 50 scope, 22" Exacutioner arrows
    Scorpyd Orion, Leupold VX6 2 x 12 42 scope, 22'' Exacutioner arrows

  8. #8
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    Generally higher end scopes are brighter, hold zero more reliably, adjust more accurately, have crisper crosshairs and better lighted reticles. They also tend hold up better. Though some of us shoot longer than traditional ranges - 80 yds, shooting at each of the 3 horz dots, with somewhat modified M 380/Big John arrows. This was yesterday's shooting: 3 3-shot groups at 50-80 yds. None over 1 1/2" gps. Today's Xbows and v-bows are capable of this level of accuracy, with some work. Deep woods hunting, at dusk, the better the scope, the better.

  9. #9
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    Do you need the better glass ? probably not but reliability is very important. When I'm hunting I don't want to be worrying about knocking a scope out of zero if I bounce it around abit. Good Luck

  10. #10
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    Just like sew said deep woods I always have a decient scope due to light gathering ,missed the buck of s lifetime one time due to scope I had at the time wouldnt gather enough light to get a good sight picture snd due to me being a consentious hunter let him pass rather than mske a bad shot vowed never again but to each his own you don't need a $1500 ziess or a $900 trigicon but at that moment I would have bought both,there are a lot of nice scopes out there that are very nice and cheap do a little digging ,my scope I have on my Excalibur now cost three times what the xbow did but it serves double duty in the season when I switch to rifle so myself I spent the extra but it can be used on quite abit of guns I have so no biggie to make a long story short spend what you feel is best for you like I tell my wife at least its not loose woman or crack I'm spending my money on just my 2 cents that and $3.50 will get you a beer down town .

  11. #11
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    Sorry for the bad grammar folks .

  12. #12
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    Thanks for all the replies. My fear is to get a scope that is worse than plain old peep sights. I have heard of scopes that don't hold zero and other that are poor in low light conditions. I guess that is my main criteria.

    Maybe a better question is: Is there a scope I SHOULDN'T buy.

    Todd

  13. #13
    I used a leupold VX1 shotgun scope for years on and off a optimizer it worked great. And didn't break the bank.
    I have bailed on the optimizer. And went with the leupold crossbones on my matrix 380. Because of a great sale midway had. I now have 2 redfield revenge crossbow scopes. One on a mission 320 that's holding up great and it's staying sighted in.
    Yesterday I got my second redfield and put it on my matrix 330. So far I'm impressed. I just got thru shooting it at 40 50 and 60 yds with broadheads. I wouldn't ask for any better.

    The two biggies for me. Is seeing to shoot at last light and first light. And holding zero if my scope changes poi for any reason it's history.

    I had cheaper scopes that wouldn't hold zero from day to day. Normally if they don't track they don't hold zero.

    I will say I have never had a leupold not hold zero.
    Just a down to earth Bowhunter.

  14. #14
    I had Leupold do a custom job on one of their air gun scopes. I had the parallax set for 25 yards and the heavy duplex reticle installed. It's a fantastic scope for crossbow use.

    Keep in mind that a good set of rings is just as important. I use Leupold 54144 solid steel. Everything stays dead nuts on in terms of accuracy. If my point of impact changes during the season I examine my crossbow first because the scope itself has never moved. It's always been something else when it's happened.

    Keep in mind crossbows and large spring air guns are harder on scopes than any magnum rifle or shotgun.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd the archer View Post

    Maybe a better question is: Is there a scope I SHOULDN'T buy.

    Todd
    A regular old Hawke at $80 will do all that you ask. Repeatability, reliability, and enough light gathering to give you an advantage over open sights.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneS View Post
    A regular old Hawke at $80 will do all that you ask. Repeatability, reliability, and enough light gathering to give you an advantage over open sights.
    Yep and Hawke has a lifetime warranty as well. There are some other good ones out there but Hawke's are tough to beat for crossbow scopes. The L4 that comes with the HHA is made by Hawke.
    Excalibur Matrix 380
    Excalibur Matrix 330
    HHA Optimizer with Hawke Scope
    18" Black Eagle Arrows w/ 110 grain insert and Lumenoks
    100 grain Swhacker broadheads 1.75"

  17. #17
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    Hawke has some new scopes out...or the return of some old ones in the Endurance line....check em out.
    Mathews MR7 orange smoke
    Strykezone 350/380 Xb30 scope
    Scorpyd Velocity, Leupold VX3 4.5 x 14 50 scope, 22" Exacutioner arrows
    Scorpyd Orion, Leupold VX6 2 x 12 42 scope, 22'' Exacutioner arrows

  18. #18
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    I have 4 Xbows: 2 SZ 380s, a 7 year old Parker Saf Mag, and a M 380. The M 380 is being optimized in almost every way: agingcrossboyer stock, TT trigger, Boo String, BJ arrows(18" Zombies, AL inserts, moon nocks, helical Blazers,FOCs), Duralyt lighted 2-8, Optimizer. This is my only hobby, I'm older and still working and feel I can afford this luxury at this stage of life. I'm getting <2"
    , 3-shot gps at 100 yds with this all-out set-up. No way would I have a lesser scope with this project. My back-up bow:2011 SZ 380, GT L-3 Pros, Blazers, SFs. Hawke XB-30. Other 2 bows are being sold.
    Does all that extra expense of the M 380 pay off: 5 more mins at each end of day easily, better definition thru scope, at least twice as accurate. AND it always hits the same place even if not shot for a while!
    Cost effectiveness? Deep into dismissing returns, but this is my only hobby, I'm in essentially a bow only hunting zone and only deer hunt here so my xbow(and recurve vbow) IS my hunting tool. Bet I'm not the only one who is in this situation. Shoot 12 months a year. How important is that 5-7 min at each end of the hunting day? How important is it to have pin point accuracy, a quiet arrow, a quiet bow? Hard to quantify.
    Hawke XB-30 works well, IMO as well as H-4 on the Optimizer. For >30 years of using xbows, primarily in the lower price ranges, and just getting my first all out xbow, what will be the difference? Not that much. What will be the advantage? Actually a little, but not that much. Kind of like cars/trucks - usually keep 10+ years, Hondas and Toyotas. Gets us there as quickly, and nearly as comfortable as much more expensive cars/trucks.

  19. #19
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    I agree with Bob Stout about good rings being key to ensure the scope stays put. I started out with aluminum rings and they gave me trouble. But they were cheap rings. I use steel rings now because of the way I hunt but they probably make real good aluminum versions to. Just have a good set of rings.
    Scorpyd Ventilator/ Scorpyd Velocity
    SPEED DOG>>-----> sniffen out the speed
    Archery: Ain't no way to make this up..when its runnin through my blood... Ain't no hiden the truth...Just what I do!!
    Tenpoint Carbon Fusion/Excalibur Vortex/Vortex Optics-Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the replies again, I feel better knowing I don't have to spend a lot to get something that is functional. Probably get the L-4 or something like it, time to start saving!

    Should say I having nothing against the high dollar stuff I just can't afford it right now.

    Todd

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by VINSON SCOTT View Post
    I started out with aluminum rings and they gave me trouble. But they were cheap rings.
    Yes, we want to wrongly blame the scope when the rings are the actual problem. It's hard to believe something as simple as scope rings could be an issue.

    Quality scope rings (they're not cheap) are paramount to accuracy!

  22. #22
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    No need ... to apologize for going first class when you can handle it. Frankly, once you've used world class optics, it's very difficult to go back to "good enough" optics. Even on a crossbow or rimfire.
    Scorpyd Velocity165 425.5fps @ 426gr & 171KE, Zeiss 3-12 Illum Duralyt, CamX Accuspine, 100gr Firenock SBG RamCats Scorpyd Orion150 Leupold 2.5-8x36mm, AcuDraw, Wyvern BEEs. Swarovski bino, Leica rangefinder, Surefire, Deerelight & Fenix lights.
    White Buffalo Inc. - Project Manager ... Wounded Warrior Project - Mentor ... NRA Life Member 1971

  23. #23
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    Yep, Duke:-)

    Zeiss is nice at twice the price :-)
    MOON



    Super Small (SS) Recurve Crossbows - The Future of Recurve Hunting Crossbows

  24. #24
    Save the money on the Optimizer, surely not needed to shoot deer out to 40 yards. You can get a very adequate scope for the price of one of those alone, or a lot better scope than the price of one of those with a scope.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
    No need ... to apologize for going first class when you can handle it. Frankly, once you've used world class optics, it's very difficult to go back to "good enough" optics. Even on a crossbow or rimfire.
    Apology retracted. I want that advantage:got it. Thanks, Duke,Moon.

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