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Expensive Side Rods?

2K views 30 replies 15 participants last post by  PaulME 
#1 ·
Just a question that I've been wondering about for the last few hours: why the expensive side rods? usually, with both of them, they are the same price of the actual long rod! the Avancee long rod is about $130-140 while each of the side rods are $70, so both of them combined is a $140 and the whole setup is $280!!!!!!

I get that expensive long rods are a lot stiffer than cheap rods and will be less droopy when weights are added, but honestly, side rods are about 10-15 in. You really don't put much weight on side rods as much as long rods, plus they're shorter, so they can't droop as much.

What's the difference between the $70 one and the $20? Besides build quality I mean.
 
#2 ·
Most of the $$$ of a rod of any length is in the ends, both ends are milled aluminum in most cases. While the material isn't that expensive it is machine time that can get up there, and since each tip is the same regardless of the length of the carbon you get the resulting price.

Also think of it this way, each rod is assembled in the same manner and potentially in the same amount of time, the biggest difference between long and shot is the ammount of carbon, so the same man hours for each regardless of length.
 
#5 ·
I'm assuming you're somewhat new to archery. (as am I :teeth: ) At this point, a stabiliser will not have a huge impact on your shooting. Go with a cheapy stabiliser for now. All you need is to learn your form right now and worry about minor equipment inconveniences later. Just buy a cheaper set of rods and then upgrade to those $300- $400 stab sets when you're an all out pro

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/fivics-phoenix-carbon-stabilizer.html
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/fivics-phoenix-side-rod.html
 
#7 ·
I'm assuming you're somewhat new to archery. (as am I :teeth: ) At this point, a stabiliser will not have a huge impact on your shooting. Go with a cheapy stabiliser for now. All you need is to learn your form right now and worry about minor equipment inconveniences later. Just buy a cheaper set of rods and then upgrade to those $300- $400 stab sets when you're an all out pro
I told myself when I began, if I get good enough to get 70-80-90 down with 8-9-10's, eight of ten ends then the sky's the limit. But I guess I'm kind of a weird sort, if I came out with top Oly quality equipment and couldn't even get them all on paper at those distances, I'd be totally ashamed.
 
#6 ·
I have shot SF premiums, Easton ACE, Doinkers, and bee stingers - i tried a lot. Long rods you can definitely tell a difference when you can shoot them back to back.

Side rods: the only difference I can tell is if they have damper or not, and their length. If my eyes where closed and someone changed my side rods but kept the same balance - I'm 99% I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. So if you want to get a set of SF side rods or similar value to save some money i don't think you'll be hurt at all by doing so.

That said its cool to have a matching set - right?


keep an eye on the classifieds for bee stingers and doinkers if you want to try them with out the retail price tag.
 
#9 ·
I lucked into a full set of Avancee's in the FITA classifieds here just a couple of weeks ago. Not the perfect length, but they'll have to do for now.
With the cost savings, I bought weights and a 4" extender.
 
#10 ·
For years I used doinker extender and long rod with cartel side rods. Only changed them when I got bored and wanted something else. Haven't noticed any difference.

With extender and long rod you will need solid, working parts, with side rods, I'd say any stick will do.
 
#11 ·
There is a lot of hype in archery...don't get caught up in it.

For example, my bernies dragon rod 14" I belive...not near as stiff as my home grown rod of the same length...same goes for my 30" rod---it's stiffer than several high end rods I've tried. My home grown rod is using .060" wall (from clearwater carbon)...the others I've tried, not so thick, not so stiff.



I would suggest getting cheap rods- even cheap aluminum rods (steel washers for weights)...get the balance you like- start shooting. .
 
#16 ·
If you get an extender (you should) it needs to be very strong, very stiff. That means expensive. Doinker used to do aluminium extenders which were awesome, not sure if they do those anymore. They were quite cheap too. Also v-bar needs to have good threads and a sturdy bolt, some cheaper ones don't.
 
#17 ·
August will mark my 1st year of shooting an olympic setup.

My stabiliser setup:
Doinker Platinum Hi-mod 30" long rod - $299
Doinker Platinum Hi-mod 15" side rod x 2- $150 ea ($300)
Doinker Platnium extender 5" - $75
Bee Stinger Adjustable V-bar - $75
Total: $749 excluding shipping costs

I basically bought one of the best stabilisers you can buy and I'm set for life. Don't need to worry about buying any more stabilisers unless it's for another setup or something disastrous happens with my current setup.
 
#26 ·
I've shot since '94 (had a ~8 year break in between though) and I've never had that expensive stabs. My current set was one that was returned to the shop for some reason, I paid 200 euros for it, so about $270. Most expensive was full Beiter set, but even that was from end of line colors, so IIRC 250 eur ($340).

Paying more than that for me is just silly. They are not complicated engineering solutions like sights, they are still basically just sticks with weights in the end. For anyone shooting under 48 pounds I wouldn't expect even to notice the difference in stiffness, and above that, you can get by with a good extender. I've never noticed much difference in dampening, a rubber thingie in the end does 99% of that job if that's what you are after.
 
#18 ·
Besides changing just for change sake, what exactly does it accomplish to move your V-bar forward of the riser? Do the side rods have to get longer to get the weight back where it used to be?

I'm my wife's "pit crew" and I just bought a Doinker extender (4" carbon, they still make the aluminum ones at much higher cost) for her Avancee setup on the recommendation of her coach, but I really don't know why. Armed with enough weights and gadgets, I should be able to balance just about anything. The ultimate determination I suppose is what it does to her shooting.
 
#20 ·
If you notice, the USA shooters have mostly stopped using extensions on their setup - they also favor adding an enormous amount of weight to the side rods and the front rods to more or less place the balance of the bow at the pivot point. Korean archers on the other hand use relatively few weights on their side rods and front rod with the addition of an extension, pushing the weight further out to increase the moment of inertia. We had a thread a few weeks ago discussing the bow roll and if you watch some of the korean women in particular, they have an incredibly dramatic bow roll due to the increase in distance from the pivot point and their relatively delicate grips.
 
#19 ·
More forward roll of the bow without adding front weight and increasing the bow mass would be my guess. However longer side rods would offset that, I think
 
#21 ·
Adding an extension moves the control point of the stabilizer system further out. This can help to put the center of mass more forward. as a result Using and not using an extension can effect your holding pattern with your sight pin. Your stabilizers should be tuned(balanced) to get the best holding pattern while aiming not simply for more/less roll after the shot. Find the balance you like - then find the mass weight you like while keeping the same ratio of weights on the rods.
 
#22 ·
Adding an extension moved the control point of the stabilizer system further out. This can help to put the center of mass more forward. as a result Using and not using an extension can effect your holding pattern with your sight pin.

Your stabilizers should be tuned(balanced) to get the best holding pattern while aiming not simply for more/less roll after the shot.


Find the balance you like - then find the mass weight you like while keeping the same ratio of weights on the rods.
What would be the ideal balance? I heard from somewhere that the ideal situation is when the bow is in balance when the fulcrum is an inch from the riser on the stabilizewr.
 
#27 ·
My first stabilizer set was a super cheap, home made job. This year I dropped the money on a set of SF Elite stabs. I am actually considering going back to the $40 cheap set I had. I was shooting much better scores for some reason. They're not the prettiest of stabilizers, but they got the job done.
 
#28 ·
This setup is for my wife who is barely over 100 lbs. Her bow is heavy enough as it is, and adding massive amounts of weight isn't really a good option for her.

We tried with and without the extender last night. Adding the extender, which itself weight a couple of ounces, allowed her to remove some of the weight from the front rod, but that weight went onto the side rods to balance out the otherwise very nose heavy condition.

The general feel for her right now is that it's more stable with the extender than without. The pivot point of the whole rig is now further forward and side stability is improved while still remaining relatively balanced in the hand with a smooth forward tilt on release.
 
#29 ·
With all this discussion on stabilizer and side rod costs I'm going to have to try making some.

I was figuring on waiting ~6 months - just work on basic form -before starting to playing with add on's (or in fact moving to an ILF rig form the polaris) but this thread has me thinking.

So I'm a complete beginner, no firm idea on what people want in stab's, length, diameter, initial weight.... However I'm a Mechanical Engineer and I have a full machine shop as a hobby - I like to make stuff. I figure it would be fun to make a few based on what more knowledgeable people would be looking for (and I see some possibility to use some damping material at the weight mount).

Here is the idea;
I don't want to loose a ton of money making these so you would pay for material cost and shipping to you (if you can't pick it up). I'll share what actual material cost is (including any shipping to get it to me), all the labor will be on me. No payment in advance. Down side is I do these in my spare time so you will NOT get instant gratification.
Preference is for people with a lot more experience than I have, preference also for people close by (MA or New England).

So as not to make this open ended - for the moment this offer is capped at 4. You should be able to discuss design trade offs, and what you are looking for - I'm not looking for people that say make a copy of XYZ but an inch shorter.
So anyone with lots of experience (and ideas on what they want) looking for a bespoke stabilizer?

Paul

Couple side notes -
I will make zero on this offer, I will loose a whole bunch if you consider my time and machine costs BUT moderators if this crosses any line about sales - go ahead and delete the message.

ends of the rods are likely to be stainless or aluminum - if aluminum they will not be anodized as min lot charges are usually ~$100 so it makes no sense for one off prototypes.
 
#31 ·
No problem will do, consider this offer closed I will post a new thread or maybe drop the idea completly.

Back to expensive vs cheap side rods - from a engineering and manufacturing perspective there would only be a couple dollars difference in cost to produce.

Paul
 
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