July 30th, 2014, 08:10 PM
i dont usually say much on here but i have seen u slam the ibo for a long time <actually any time u get a chance to> its not all about winning its about having a good time having fun but some guys cheat but most are honest good guys good luck to u I HAVE NEVER SHOT WITH A CHEATER IN THE IBO
Originally Posted by cenochs
July 30th, 2014, 08:20 PM
Explain ? Every point I gave about the IBO is true...
Originally Posted by glennx
Same shoot sites since we'll forever -
No shoot times or assigned stakes
No speed limit
Any type of logical thinking will come to the conclusion the IBO is just a big local shoot that does not want to hold a true National Tournament. How the amateur classes are treated everyone should just shoot for fun and go home..
When an organization uses words like National Triple Crown the tournaments should actually reflect this with to make the playing field level and the only distinction between the winners and losers is their ability to shoot and knowledge of equipment.
Example - How long do you think other sports would last if the competitors and teams got to choose what day and time they got start a game so they could avoid bad weather and only play when everyone is healthy, record books would have to be thrown away...
If you live in IBO country and don't want to shoot other organizations that is fine but be truthful with yourself and others and take the IBO format for what it is and don't try to make more out of it than there is...
July 30th, 2014, 08:33 PM
[QUOTE=cenochs;1070684210]They have already accomplished this don't worry with no shoot times...anyone could win a IBO event and never leave their car and you call this a true national tournament ?[/
u seem to always be critical of the ibo i like the fact that u can come and shoot when your schedule demands it i shoot with a friend and we always shoot with other people we dont cheat so nobody in the asa shoots with somebody they dont know? nobody in the asa has ever cheated lol we all know that isnt true i guess the pros must cheat from your comments because they shoot together on a regular basis
July 30th, 2014, 08:43 PM
good conversation I was a very good athlete in high school and college <there will never be a level playing field> some athletes are just more superior lighting changes in the woods and the field in a heartbeat bottom line to me is lets support archery!!!!! its what we love
July 31st, 2014, 12:36 AM
First I will say yes!! I think the IBO needs a known yardage class! Secondly I also get sick of people slamming the IBO. While I understand that it wouldn't be hard to cheat an IBO event. However, over the last several years I've made peers for the 3rd leg of the triple crown and shot with most of the guys that are at the top of my class year in and year out! They are all great shooters. This year I had a one point lead going into the last shoot and knew I would be shooting with the guy I had to beat. He beat me by 5 points and won the triple crown. I shot with him the year before and new it would be tough. As far as I'm concerned the best shooter in our class won the triple crown. I am extremely proud of my 2nd place finish behind him and looking forward to the competition again next year. Basically what I am saying is that a lot of great shooters win IBO events and people on here are basically putting us all down every time they make comments such as the ones above. JW
BOWJUNKIE STRINGS AND CABLES
July 31st, 2014, 09:15 AM
My opinion, exactly.
Originally Posted by shamlin
2009 Hoyt Alpha Max 32 @ 27", 62 lb.- Hunting
2011 Hoyt Contender @ 27", 52 lbs- Indoor Spots
2012 Hoyt Vector Turbo @27", 57 lbs- 3D
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July 31st, 2014, 09:19 AM
If you truly think this is even remotely possible in an outdoor 3D competition you are delusional. The weather and lighting change during the day and from day to day. Speed limits do not level the playing field. There are still great differences in equipment needed to reach that speed by people with short draw lengths compared to long draw lengths. A person who is 6'6" can see the ground better than someone who is 5'2". In every sport there are athletes who have physical and mental advantages. It's a competition to see who is the best and who can play the game the best. If you want fair and a level playing field try checkers.
Originally Posted by cenochs
So what you are saying is that no one who has ever won the IBO Triple Crown is not a true champion? Again you are delusional. Maybe you should try telling that to someone like Wes Van Horn or Chris Abrahamsen. If you don't like the IBO don't go. But who are you to belittle what others like and take pride in accomplishing?
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August 2nd, 2014, 06:40 AM
3D shooting for me is about making the best shot by judging the yardage to the best of my abilities! I think a known yardage class takes away from the prestige or 3D shooting, Not too mention in a known yardage class there are some guys out there who shoot so good that their almost guaranteed to win every event, This is where judging comes into play! Your skill isn't just shooting its judging!
Fast is Fine but Accuracy is Final, You need to Learn to be Slow in a Hurry!
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August 2nd, 2014, 07:24 AM
Absolutely YES! No one is saying to remove yardage judging, but to increase participation, grow the membership and be more inclusive to ALL archers, why not have a class for them? There are some great archers who also hunt that dont shoot 3d tournaments like Reo Wilde, Dave Cousins, Paul Tedford and Ben English just to name a few. The 2014 IBO Worlds registration as of Friday 08-01-14, was less than 1,100 people, we used to get over that in MBO alone and over 5,000 at a shoot. The ASA shoot in Kentucky had over 1,700! I emailed Bryan Marcum, president of the IBO, and he did everything he could to discredit the questions I had, to the point of calling me a "beginner" and looking up my finish at Erie to add insult to injury. This kind of thinking will continue to drive membership and participation down in the IBO. PM me for a transcript of the emails if you question his response. (BTW my initial email to Marcum was asking why there was not a "move up" rule for AHC, which I was told that my question was baseless!?!?! WVH cleans a 40 target course and shoots 27 out of 40 11's and I am wrong for asking about a move up rule?!?!?)
August 2nd, 2014, 08:24 AM
Yes I think the IBO should add a known class. It possibly could bring new blood to the ibo and 3d.
August 2nd, 2014, 11:18 AM
I like the idea of allowing shooters to "graduate" into the unknown classes if they so choose to. By having known distances, it gives people new to the game or people migrating over from other venues and not familiar with the targets to get broken in to the game and work on their form AND their "judging skills" while still being able to compete and not losing arrows all the time or being embarrassed by launching boolitts out into the trees or otherwise destroying equipment.
I'm not positive of this, but I thought I read somewhere that in ASA the known distance classes are the fastest growing of all the shooting classes in ASA?
It is better to have it so everyone that wants to can compete and to have options to stay "known" or work to "unknown", or just stay in unknown. Since known and unknown classes do not compete directly against each other, "what difference does it make"...nobody in known is stepping on those in unknown, and vice-versa.
Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
-field14 (Tom D.)
August 2nd, 2014, 11:26 AM
There's absolutely no good reason not to introduce a couple of known yardage classes, especially if the goal is to increase participation and increase revenue.
If they do not, attendance will continue to decline or stay flat while the Asa grows.
If they are satisfied with being pushed aside and marginalized, they will continue to ignore the customer base. It appears that's exactly what they want. Baffling.
August 2nd, 2014, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by dan-0
August 5th, 2014, 11:56 AM
I found out a long time ago that I cannot judge distances. Always used a range finder even back in the 70s to hunt. Before that, I never shot over 25 yards while hunting. I have shot only one 3D in my life and found that every target from 25 yds to 45 yds looks the same and I lost about $100 worth of arrows in one day.
Since field archery is dying, I would love to shoot 3D. We have 3D animals set up on our range every day and I still cannot judge the yardage. I promise that I would not take anything away from the unknown shooters. I only want to shoot outdoors without losing all my arrows and I do not get a thrill when I do guess the distance right.
PSE Supra Max 60#
Hoyt Carbon Element 60#
August 9th, 2014, 11:18 AM
I think it would be a good idea because there are a lot of great shooters that can't judge yardage and that would make it more competitive for everyone, besides you still have to make the shot. Here in our state we are going to have a known yardage championship shoot in 2015, should be interesting.
August 11th, 2014, 10:06 AM
Known distance classes have proven to be VERY popular. They are VERY popular with new 3D archers. The popularity also includes continued participation by some archers. The positive impact of Known distance 3D very obviously far out weighs the negativity from some veteran 3D archers.
Maybe just maybe a very small number of veteran 3D'ers quit because Known distance was implemented. However, I do not know of a single 3D'er that quit the ASA because Known distance classes were created but it is very obvious many archers are in the game or stayed in the game due to Known distance classes.
Whether you like Known 3D or not the fact remains that it is GOOD for archery in general and 3D archery specifically.
PSE Dominator 3D MD, Decree
Stan ShootOff, Sable and JustX releases
August 11th, 2014, 10:27 AM
Well, the IBO needs something. The way ASA K45 is growing the class alone will surpass attendance of Regions.
ASA Florida - 115
ASA Illinois - 127
ASA Classic - 108
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with Stinger back bars.
August 11th, 2014, 10:37 AM
I have shot plenty of IBO events bc I lived in NW ohio now that I moved to NC and shot some ASA I have no desire to go back to the cluster that the IBO (except semi and pro) is. Takes too long to shoot with out a shotgun start. no breaking of groups. even the regions I shot this year was better put together than all of the ibos I have been too. I know they didnt have as many shooters but it would be nice to see some improvments made to the IBO setup
August 11th, 2014, 05:08 PM
Tired of hearing groups aren't broken up. I shot WV and Erie this year and groups were broken up at both. I know they've had a history of not doing this but this year they have at least at the shoots I've attended. Just saying.
August 11th, 2014, 05:22 PM
Yes. Obviously better attendance is a good thing.
Legends of the Fall Staff Shooter
August 11th, 2014, 08:10 PM
Bring it on. I think it would be good for attendance. I know it's not my cup of tea but that's OK. I find judging yardage to be one of my favorite aspects of the game. It's one part of the puzzle. It's also one of the skill sets that must be mastered to be competitive and a big part of the challenge that is 3d archery <---- to me. I don't think for a second though that the reasons I enjoy 3d have to be the same as reasons for why other people enjoy it. I personally enjoy the trek through the woods from target to target. My quads were killing me after day one at worlds and I loved the fact that it was just one more aspect of the challenge. I wouldn't like shooting a circuit of known distance targets with short walks as much, again this is just me talking about what I enjoy. 3d can be enjoyed in different ways for different reasons by everyone, so let's see more choices that will result in more growth.
As far as back ups go, I know it happens but just don't run into it very often whatsoever, certainly nothing excessive. When it's slight I appreciate a little breather to try and get my head right.
To the guy above that is insinuating that a triple crown champion is not one heck of a shooter and deserving of the title or perhaps that the title means nothing... I don't know what to say other than, thank you very much for not being a participant in the IBO shoots. We don't want you there anyhow, unless maybe you have a major attitude overhaul. Then, please feel free to join us and find out who the best shooter of the day/weekend is.
2015 Xpedition Perfexion 61 lbs. 29" dl
2011 Bowtech Specialist 60 lbs. 29" dl
2013 Bowtech Insanity CPXL 65 lbs. 29" dl
August 11th, 2014, 08:29 PM
I started shooting IBO in 1988 and after 25 years I decided to take 2014 off from the IBO and yes, I missed the competition. I have always looked at ASA and IBO as two different orgs just doing their thing and tried to prepare for the tournaments with different set ups and Bow speed. Things are changing and I can understand the difficulty of new archers trying to learn to judge distance,( which takes years to master), they get frustrated and give up. I am all for known distance classes for people to enjoy our great sport. I believe within 2 years the ASA known classes will be the largest classes and the sponsors will be putting BIG BUCKS in these classes. Do the math at the ASA known classes this year, new archers are filling the ranges and having a blast. At every pro am I attended this year people would ask me how I became so good at judging and it got me thinking of how many years I worked and worked at learning the animals at every distance, I am not sure if I would go thru that process again, SO YES, add known to IBO if you want the org to grow.
August 11th, 2014, 08:30 PM
Known distances...no. But why not mark the 12 ring so you can actually SEE it without using binocs? That would clarify where the 'spot' is without making it easier to hit...and speed up the flow of the wandering masses.
August 11th, 2014, 08:37 PM
I think anything that gets people involved is a good thing. It can't hurt
August 12th, 2014, 08:03 AM
That was my first thought when I looked up the results from this years worlds...I was looking for the additional pages. 100 Pros, 150 people in Semi, 1000 people MBO...those were the days.
Originally Posted by Bullseyebry1