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Pro Hunter Class in IBO

12K views 78 replies 40 participants last post by  Bowtech54 
#1 ·
I read on Archery Wire that the IBO will add two new classes for 2015.
Pro Hunter Class will have a $145 entry fee and be 45 yds max.
I didn't see anything about equipment requirements.
 
#3 ·
I don't see PHC ever amounting to much. Sure some manufacturers may promote it initially but ultimately it becomes irrelevant........ just like the rest of the IBO.

I fully expect there will be a "splash" with big names flying around and manufacturers throwing money at folks but I just don't understand how making a "Pro Hunter" division is going to grow the IBO. If there is a decent amount of money in the class all that is going to happen is the other "Pro" divisions will become diluted.

The IBO says they are not about "target" archery but then they turn around and make another "Pro" division. Pro classes are ALL about target archery! Making money shooting targets in no way shape or form has anything to do with hunting.
 
#4 ·
I can't see the big names shooting that class unless there is more $$$ in it for them. I can see a splash of HC and AHC shooting it just so they can call themselves pro's. I don't see the point other than to make the other classes smaller. Your top MBR shooters will mostly make a jump. Next years thread will read its not fair that " enter a known pros name here" shot at event X and took all my money and that they need to stay in their own division. Just another bad move by the IBO
 
#6 ·
Haters. That's all I'm hearing. While the only class that might add people would be some known classes. Pbh is not a bad thing. I for hope that all the top dudes from ahc and mbr shoot in that class. The money in ahc is a joke and mbr is a joke also. I Damn near win the same money at a state level shoot in michigan. Let me ask you this. What is wrong with the top pin shooters having a pins class. Not everyone likes a scope or long bars. And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro. And doubt that anyone all ready shooting open pro will leave for pins. But if they do. Cool. Besides. It's a bow hunting organization. So pro bow hunter makes sense to me.
 
#9 ·
Not hating here..... I love shooting pins and I really loved shooting pins when I could see half way decent. I just don't see how a PHC will do anything for the IBO unless a sponsor is paying them. I'm almost willing to bet a paying sponsor is behind the creation of PHC because there doesn't seem to be a current market for it. Is BowTech or another dedicated hunting product manufacturer backing the PHC? We shall see..............

"And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro." I know people will do it especially if there aren't too many other shooters. That way they can finish in the top 10 at most every shoot! Not hard to do when there are only 15 shooters.

If you want to actually win a little $$ then you have to shoot ASA but you'll be up against a LOT of archers!

They will have the class, some people will shoot it, but you are going to run into the same problems K50 runs into in ASA...people are going to say "It's a pro class, why isn't there any manufacturers contingency money???"
Because the name does NOT really matter. Contingency money will come when it is worth it to a sponsor. K50 is just now getting it's legs.
 
#13 ·
i would love to shoot some asa nationals, but the travel time is a bigger commitment. So i shoot the ibo and take the good with the bad, and dont quote on this, i know 100% that this class idea was started with wesley vanhorn and i believe that there will be some sponsor money for this class by archery manufacturers. the thing is alot of people say this wont help grow the ibo, and i partially agree but it seems they cry about it cause they didnt get the class they wanted. put in the time and effort that wes did and maybe your class will happen. I would love to see more people at the shoots, wether you want to shoot known or unknown, were all bowhunters. also i think they could stand to lose a few classes. but im sure someone would cry about that also, cant please everyone.
 
#16 ·
I can say I've shot pro, semi pro and hc and ahc and enjoyed the ahc top level shooters more than any others. Many talented guys willing to help others than I have ever seen in this sport for 20 plus years.
 
#17 ·
Sad day.

I have no objections to the addition of these two classes. I honestly don't see the draw for a PHC, but I'm all for any experiment that may grow the attendance at these shoots.

I'm just extremely disappointed that the IBO leadership missed the opportunity to add Known Yardage classes and vastly improve the attendance at the events. Just ridiculous.
 
#22 ·
So has any of the people that are up in arms for a known class spear headed a petition or campaign to add these classes or is it just easy to type and complain?
 
#31 ·
My understanding is that they had the opportunity. It was discussed, debated, and it didn't happen. This is a topic best suited while having a beer someday. Controversial issue, even though in my mind it shouldn't be.

The goal should be to increase participation. That apparently isn't paramount.
 
#23 ·
I view it as a capacity problem. the northern triple crown shoots set A-P courses which is 16 ranges with 10 targets each. if they had 400 shooters, there would be 16 ranges. If there are 2000 shooters my guess is it would be the same. from what I can tell, there are 1000-1300 shooters and the ranges are maxed out for most of the days.

the only thing that keeps me from going back to the ibo big events are the waits and the time needed to shoot a whole 40. I absolutely detest waiting 3-4 groups deep at a stake to only take one shot, then repeat at the next stake. there are no additional classes that will help this, they just need to set more ranges to spread out the shooters already there. If they can get the shooting times down to 4 hours, it would perhaps allow people to shoot more than one class. For instance, I would shoot a compound class then grab a recurve and some friends and have a go at another round. When I travel 4 hours to a shoot, it would be nice to be able to shoot more than 40 arrows for score over the time span of a whole weekend.

Dear IBO: try this... figure out a way to allow people to spend more time moving and shooting than sitting around in their chairs. In fact, is it possible to have a shoot where they don't need to lug around a chair?
 
#24 ·
couple of questions, if a guy shoots pbh will he have to shoot open pro in asa? and a less serious note could anyone drop down from open pro and knock out ol wes if thats even possible. i love shooting pins and alot of practice goes into gaping and holding with short bars,still not ready to go the easy route with lens,sight and long bars. pbh for me next yr.
 
#27 ·
The answer to your first question, if you shoot "pro" another organization then you must a shoot a pro or semi-pro class in ASA. Of course the ASA can make exceptions but I'm sure the only possible class a PBH guy could shoot that wasn't a "pro" or semi-pro class would be the Unlimited class (50 yard).

There is no rule that says an Open Pro could not shoot PHC. However, unless the money is there I doubt any will change. Some years ago I shot a few IBO shoots in AHC and shot Hunter in the ASA and BHFS in the NFAA. I really enjoyed shooting pins. There is not as big of a difference between pin shooting and adjustable sight shooting in the IBO as there is in the ASA. In IBO everyone including fixed pin archers are shooting center 10. Being off vertically bit may still get you an 11 and at worse a 10.

You can look at the SOY scores for AHC and PMR to evaluate and compare. Remember, PMR courses are 25% longer than AHC courses. Guesstimate the advantage of using an adjustable sight and lens. I expect many of the younger Pro's would not be giving up a whole lot by not using a lens on IBO targets since they will start be shooting center 10's. A lens means more in the ASA because of the smaller 12 ring and it's not in the center of the 10. I would say that the decent current PMR guys would score maybe just a few points less in PHC than they currently do in PMR. They give up their lens but the targets are 5 yards closer while the fixed pins would cost them about 6 or so points on 40 targets. I'm speculating the AHC guys would score some points lower in PHC than they do in AHC. The PHC courses will be over 10% longer than AHC courses. I know a 2 yard error on a 40 yard target isn't nearly as bad as a 2 yard error on a 45 yard target and yardage guessing can be more difficult on further targets. I know the difference between a 40 and a 45 yards class in the ASA is huge to me!!!!

I would have simply made PHC a 50 yard class and put them on the PMR courses.

Why doesn't the IBO simply have a "move up" requirement? Isn't the only difference between MBR and AHC is the stabilizer length and 5 yards?

Assuming there are sponsors putting money on the table I expect PHC will draw some archers from other classes and possibly some currently dedicated ASA guys.
 
#26 ·
While I applaud those responsible for the effort to get this class going, I also don't see how it can grow participation for the IBO. Only a select few will step up and participate. With it being labeled as a "Pro" class, I would assume anyone shooting in it would be required to shoot Pro in other orgs also. With being a Pro class I would have liked to have seen them shoot 50 max on the Pro ranges, just seems like a glorified MBR class. With the IBO numbers being stagnant the last few years and the Pro class numbers dwindling I would have thought this would be a good time for the IBO to look for ways to bring in new shooters and not water down the existing classes even more. Good luck to those who step up in the new season!
 
#29 ·
what might hurt for some of the guys as u mentioned eariler for numbers is their will be a number of hc and ahc will try the pbh class and find out not for them and now will be stuck at pro level and quit shooting because cant go back. thing is to win ibo u cant miss the 11's , 10s are like 8,s in asa.
 
#32 ·
Don't have a dog in this show but I don't see very much sponsor money coming to a Pro Bowhunter class. Manufacturers are struggling with what they pay right now. Having an entry fee that is roughly half what the Pro entry is make this class more of a Semipro class.
 
#33 ·
So in order for a top MBR shooter to go "pro pins" they have to switch to short bars but still shoot same max distance and perhaps same course anyway? SO the difference between a pro level pin shooter class and an amateur level pin shooter class is stab length in the reverse order one would logically think?
I also have no dog in this fight, I'm a scope and slider shooter, but that seems a little squirly. Also I have friends who are upper echelon MBR shooters that I am trying to convince to shoot some Asa as well, this then means if they were to ahoot PHC, those guys would have to shoot pro level ASA even if they don't shoot their pins. Controversial.
 
#37 ·
Yep. However, they could shoot the ASA Semi-Pro classes. As it stands they would be required to shoot "Pro" in the NFAA. Let us not forget that shooting PHS would also require you to shoot a "Pro" at all state level shoots as well.

Seems to me that people have more of a problem with the class name. What if it was called elite hunter or something. It's the pro that everyone wants to find fault in.
The name of the class does not matter in anyway. The fact that it is considered a "pro" class by the IBO causes the problems. Maybe there will be a enough money by a major sponsor thrown on the table to make it a very popular class. That is about the only way it will draw a decent turn out and even then it would be guys that are already shooting tournaments in another class. If let's say CBE/Scott and Coca Cola put up a $10,000 pot for PHC. I fully expect some of the current best archers in the world would quickly be setting pins. Unless their sponsors don't put contingency money on the table for PHC. If the big companies don't pay contingency for PHC is it really a big league "Pro" class? The answer is "No". If the best 3D'ers aren't playing in PHC then at best it is a "Pro minor league" class.

If there is enough money in PHC then Levi, Chance and Jack should jump in it. I just don't see the best archers being evenly divided between two pro classes. One class WILL be the "Big Dog" class and the other will be the " 'wanna be" class.

Why not just raise the entry fee for MBR AND increase the payout for MBR? Why not have a "move up" requirement for the lower classes?

There must be a big money sponsor that has basically paid the IBO to create PHC. Otherwise it defies logic as to why the IBO created PHC. I do NOT think there is anything wrong with an outside sponsor. In fact I think that would be great!
 
#36 ·
I'm curious how many of the top 100 in AHC and HC make the leap. They are already doing very well in those classes, why pay more? If there is more money, great, but I don't see many shooters being motivated to move to this class when they are doing well and paying less of an entry in AHC and HC.
 
#39 ·
your right kent, only one big dog class, lets hear your thoughts on the pro fingers class.. smh, I agree, if the ibo had changed the structure of the current pins classes it could be better, i for one think hunter should be a one year and out, after a year your no longer a beginner, put in a bump out rule for ahc, and make mbr a mandatory money class, the fact that you even have an option in either class is beyond me. either way i think the top guys in ahc and mbr should all be in one class regardless of the class name. hopefully some money will bring everyone to the class. time will tell.
 
#40 ·
Where in the rule book does it call hunter a beginner class take a look at the scores pretty sure some of the best shooters in Ibo shooting there its not very hard to shoot in the top ten or twenty shooters when there only is 40 or 50 shooters little different when there is 200 shooters
 
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